Why Is It Legal To Sell Cigarettes That is Murdering 5.4 Million People A Year?
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Terraphon - Im sorry about what cigarettes have done to your loved ones and I know how it feels to lose someone to cancer. And I respect all of your views, but based on the results it is safer theN real cigarettes. regardless of what people say they are using it for, it is being used to quit smoking, otherwise why switch to an e-cig? is it the charging that attracts an ecig smoker? As far as calling out the president, I guess i did. And I hope with his help and maybe even goverment funding we can get FULLY TESTED e-cigs into the hands of all CURRENT smokers and have them quit and LIVE !!!!!!! F#$K - the safe cig, F - smoking everywhere F- ALL THE BRANDS !!!....when are you people gonna realize that this is bigger then all of us !!!!!!! PEOPLE ARE DYING AND YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THE NAME OF MY STORE AND MY PRICES !!!!! YOU PEOPLE KNOW DAM WELL THAT ITS SAFER, YOU READ THESE REPORTS, JUST CAUSE THERE NOT FROM AMERICA DOESNT MEAN THERE NOT VALID. STOP FIGHTING ME AND INSTEAD LETS WORK ON THIS TOGETHER.....WE HAVE THE PRESIDENTS ATTENTION NOW......YOU GUYS FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANNA DO WITH IT.
It's hard to work with someone who denies the reality of the situation -
"... based on the results it is safer the real cigarettes ..."
Where are your results?
I'd suggest not giving any of your products to the president, if anything goes wrong then that is one mighty deep hole for us to be buried in.
"... based on the results it is safer the real cigarettes ..."
Where are your results?
I'd suggest not giving any of your products to the president, if anything goes wrong then that is one mighty deep hole for us to be buried in.
according to your site, I wont get cancer if I smoke your e-cigs. THAT ALONE will cause the FDA to shut you down and every other e-cig vendor.
You claim it has "No Carcinogens". You cant guarantee that, especially when it comes to flavors.
You claim it has "No Carcinogens". You cant guarantee that, especially when it comes to flavors.
If you are selling Ruyan then you can back your claims up with the study done by Dr. Murray otherwise, you need your own study, as simple as that, what can waranty us that YOUR liquid has no carcinogens? you are using a different technology than Ruyan's, even the wick in your atomizers could cause cancer, who knows? Ruyan products have no wick.
It's a no brainer.......I am sure it doesn't really matter what we think now......we are stuck with hoping you will be right and we were being unnecessarily cautious.
Of course it's being used to quit smoking. That's why I'm using it, after all. What we can't do is go around telling people that this is what they're INTENDED for. Apparently you don't understand the statutes that govern this kind of thing.
Here's the deal.
If we tell people that e-cigs are an alternative to smoking tobacco and we leave out words like "safe" or "harmless" or "safer" or "healthier" and phrases like "help you quit smoking" then we haven't made any CLAIMS.
Claims have to be investigated, you see?
If you tell people they're healthier, you have to be able to prove it. You can't.
If you tell people they're safe(r) you have to be able to prove it. You can't.
If you tell people that they can help them stop smoking, you have to be able to prove it. You can't.
Also, when you say these things you open up the arena of medical use which becomes even more complex.
Why can't you just say "These are an alternative to smoking tobacco that don't make you smell like unwashed ..." or "This product is intended to be used as a less smelly, better tasting alternative to smoking tobacco products"? or...I like this one "The electronic cigarette is intended as an alternative to smoking tobacco. Preliminary tests indicate that many of the harmful substances that are a part of tobacco smoke are not present in the vapor produced by the electronic cigarette. While we can not claim, at this time, that they are a safe alternative we do know that the vapor is devoid of tar, carbon monoxide, and many other harmful ingredients."
Safer? We THINK so.
That's it for me. Every time I put a battery on the charger I put a load in my boxers.
My god, man. Your debate skills are horrible.
You fail.
You don't get government funding to research and approve a product that directly competes with and undermines a product which provides billions of tax dollars each year by placing a billboard calling out POTUS.
You didn't think this out very well, did you?
We have his attention? Can you please back up this claim? Has President Obama contacted you and said "Well, Jon, I'm listening"?
I doubt it.
Also,
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I don't think that NoBrainer is really understanding what has been said.
Lack of credible evidence does not seem to change the claims.
Really, if he doesn't show some proof of his claims for the product he is selling then this is a circular argument.
Lack of credible evidence does not seem to change the claims.
Really, if he doesn't show some proof of his claims for the product he is selling then this is a circular argument.
Dude, you need to stop! You need to take a course on Liberty 101. There is no way that you are going to clear a path for ecig acceptance by stepping on the toes of big tobacco. As soon as you start marketing your product as a cigarette REPLACEMENT, you have invited the devil to a chess match. You can't beat the devil.
Here's what Liberty is: Having the freedom to live your life how you please while ALSO letting others live their lives how THEY please. You talking about how you "can't believe that cigarettes are legal" because "isn't murder illegal?" is soooo bogus! Some people like to smoke and some people will always want to smoke. Let them. Let companies provide what their customers want. Also, you should provide what your customers want! Close your mouth and sell your wares! If you want to be a politician, be a politician. If you want to run a business, I suggest that you stop with all of your illogical, uninformed banter.
Here's what Liberty is: Having the freedom to live your life how you please while ALSO letting others live their lives how THEY please. You talking about how you "can't believe that cigarettes are legal" because "isn't murder illegal?" is soooo bogus! Some people like to smoke and some people will always want to smoke. Let them. Let companies provide what their customers want. Also, you should provide what your customers want! Close your mouth and sell your wares! If you want to be a politician, be a politician. If you want to run a business, I suggest that you stop with all of your illogical, uninformed banter.
Jon, you have been impulsive and REALLY HARDHEADED. Your actions have called attention to us that we DO NOT WANT. Please read carefully.
Until there are more of us, we do not have the voting power or the financial power to defend the ecig against Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical, or Big Brother.
Until we have proper documentation of the ingredients, proper testing, and a proper sample submitted to the FDA for their testing along with the proper paperwork submitted the proper way, we are NOT FDA approved, NOT safe, NOT interested in involving the general public or the government - this includes the elected officials that we cannot afford to buy.
The people on these forums are your potential future customers. They are telling you what they want. They are telling you how to get them to buy from you. They are giving you a map to their heartstrings and their pursestrings. They are shouting, "STOP YELLING YOU'LL WAKE BIG BROTHER.", and "BE VERY CLEAR AND VERY CAUTIOUS IN YOUR MARKETING.", and "QUIT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE SMOKERS - THEY ARE DESPARATE RIGHT NOW AND GRASPING AT STRAWS, ALIENATING THEM SPELLS OUR DOOM." You will not have repeat customers if you keep alienating them. Nor will you have long term customers if they find out the information on these forums which they eventually will since your version of caring for them is going to send them out to google the device, which will lead them directly to us. Take the cotton out of your ears, and stick it in your mouth for awhile.
You are taking the short man's approach - push and shove and trample to get to the front of the line, pissing everyone else off, only to find out what everyone else knew all along "slow and steady wins the race". We need slow, steady growth, not a huge influx of fad-following, controversy-causing dramaseekers. Your marketing may cause a fad like the Pet Rock, but it would only be a fad and would cause a kneejerk reaction from everyone else whose girlfriend died of cancer - most assume it is nicotine that causes all the health risks of tobacco and will act instantly and impulsively to have their bought officials take action against this new "evil threat" to their nicfree world. Your fad would create chaos in the community and would then fade away like the Pet Rock.
SLOW STEADY GROWTH, NOT DRAMATIC MASS MARKETING.
I started out trying to be openminded and work toward including you in the consensus, but you are still arguing
. I must get you to shut up and listen - with your heart, not your head or your keyboard. Hear that you will not gain acceptance here with the approach you have used to date.
Until there are more of us, we do not have the voting power or the financial power to defend the ecig against Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical, or Big Brother.
Until we have proper documentation of the ingredients, proper testing, and a proper sample submitted to the FDA for their testing along with the proper paperwork submitted the proper way, we are NOT FDA approved, NOT safe, NOT interested in involving the general public or the government - this includes the elected officials that we cannot afford to buy.
The people on these forums are your potential future customers. They are telling you what they want. They are telling you how to get them to buy from you. They are giving you a map to their heartstrings and their pursestrings. They are shouting, "STOP YELLING YOU'LL WAKE BIG BROTHER.", and "BE VERY CLEAR AND VERY CAUTIOUS IN YOUR MARKETING.", and "QUIT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE SMOKERS - THEY ARE DESPARATE RIGHT NOW AND GRASPING AT STRAWS, ALIENATING THEM SPELLS OUR DOOM." You will not have repeat customers if you keep alienating them. Nor will you have long term customers if they find out the information on these forums which they eventually will since your version of caring for them is going to send them out to google the device, which will lead them directly to us. Take the cotton out of your ears, and stick it in your mouth for awhile.
You are taking the short man's approach - push and shove and trample to get to the front of the line, pissing everyone else off, only to find out what everyone else knew all along "slow and steady wins the race". We need slow, steady growth, not a huge influx of fad-following, controversy-causing dramaseekers. Your marketing may cause a fad like the Pet Rock, but it would only be a fad and would cause a kneejerk reaction from everyone else whose girlfriend died of cancer - most assume it is nicotine that causes all the health risks of tobacco and will act instantly and impulsively to have their bought officials take action against this new "evil threat" to their nicfree world. Your fad would create chaos in the community and would then fade away like the Pet Rock.
SLOW STEADY GROWTH, NOT DRAMATIC MASS MARKETING.
I started out trying to be openminded and work toward including you in the consensus, but you are still arguing
. I must get you to shut up and listen - with your heart, not your head or your keyboard. Hear that you will not gain acceptance here with the approach you have used to date.
Jon, you have been impulsive and REALLY HARDHEADED. Your actions have called attention to us that we DO NOT WANT. Please read carefully.
Until there are more of us, we do not have the voting power or the financial power to defend the ecig against Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical, or Big Brother.
Until we have proper documentation of the ingredients, proper testing, and a proper sample submitted to the FDA for their testing along with the proper paperwork submitted the proper way, we are NOT FDA approved, NOT safe, NOT interested in involving the general public or the government - this includes the elected officials that we cannot afford to buy.
The people on these forums are your potential future customers. They are telling you what they want. They are telling you how to get them to buy from you. They are giving you a map to their heartstrings and their pursestrings. They are shouting, "STOP YELLING YOU'LL WAKE BIG BROTHER.", and "BE VERY CLEAR AND VERY CAUTIOUS IN YOUR MARKETING.", and "QUIT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE SMOKERS - THEY ARE DESPARATE RIGHT NOW AND GRASPING AT STRAWS, ALIENATING THEM SPELLS OUR DOOM." You will not have repeat customers if you keep alienating them. Nor will you have long term customers if they find out the information on these forums which they eventually will since your version of caring for them is going to send them out to google the device, which will lead them directly to us. Take the cotton out of your ears, and stick it in your mouth for awhile.
You are taking the short man's approach - push and shove and trample to get to the front of the line, pissing everyone else off, only to find out what everyone else knew all along "slow and steady wins the race". We need slow, steady growth, not a huge influx of fad-following, controversy-causing dramaseekers. Your marketing may cause a fad like the Pet Rock, but it would only be a fad and would cause a kneejerk reaction from everyone else whose girlfriend died of cancer - most assume it is nicotine that causes all the health risks of tobacco and will act instantly and impulsively to have their bought officials take action against this new "evil threat" to their nicfree world. Your fad would create chaos in the community and would then fade away like the Pet Rock.
SLOW STEADY GROWTH, NOT DRAMATIC MASS MARKETING.
I started out trying to be openminded and work toward including you in the consensus, but you are still arguing
This is a well thought out, well presented and very representative post.
Jon, you'd do well to start listening to people around here. They may be your best hope.
Jon, the answer to your question:
It is legal to sell cigarettes because cigarettes have the financial and political backing of some very wealthy companies known collectively as Big Tobacco. Big Tobacco amassed this wealth over a period of YEARS by selling their products to some extremely loyal customers who were so loyal because they got a product of consistent quality from consistent merchants at a price they could afford and were lead to believe that Big Tobacco would fight for their rights. It is legal to sell cigarettes because by the time the government finally decided to get involved with cigarettes, the cigarettes already had a hefty fanbase a fanbase full of voters that would not re-elect the government leaders if they severely damaged the precious cigarette. Since then, the government has steadily whittled away at that cigarette fanbase, which has led to the current climate of smokers desparate to quit because they can see where this is going and know it will be painful - they don't realize yet that the sights are now set on nicotine in any form, if you doubt this look into the popularity of continine testing and the current uses for it (the latest method is "no niccy or no job").
It is legal to sell cigarettes because cigarettes have the financial and political backing of some very wealthy companies known collectively as Big Tobacco. Big Tobacco amassed this wealth over a period of YEARS by selling their products to some extremely loyal customers who were so loyal because they got a product of consistent quality from consistent merchants at a price they could afford and were lead to believe that Big Tobacco would fight for their rights. It is legal to sell cigarettes because by the time the government finally decided to get involved with cigarettes, the cigarettes already had a hefty fanbase a fanbase full of voters that would not re-elect the government leaders if they severely damaged the precious cigarette. Since then, the government has steadily whittled away at that cigarette fanbase, which has led to the current climate of smokers desparate to quit because they can see where this is going and know it will be painful - they don't realize yet that the sights are now set on nicotine in any form, if you doubt this look into the popularity of continine testing and the current uses for it (the latest method is "no niccy or no job").
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Jon, it has also worked in the cigarette's favor that Phillip Morris has not taken out a billboard taunting the president of the U.S. to try their product.
I am very glad it was your site posted on that board as a target for all those looking to squash this before it gets out of the fledgling state.
THIS PRODUCT IS NOT READY FOR THE MASS MARKET YET. It is not safe, it is not reliable, it is not cheap, it is not easily accessible, it is not backed by wealthy people.
I am very glad it was your site posted on that board as a target for all those looking to squash this before it gets out of the fledgling state.
THIS PRODUCT IS NOT READY FOR THE MASS MARKET YET. It is not safe, it is not reliable, it is not cheap, it is not easily accessible, it is not backed by wealthy people.
Aw shucks, thanks for the compliment, Lithium. It is only a good thing if I use it for good and not evil. I hate that I have stooped to the level of flaming, but I cannot stand by and allow it to happen - that is how Hitler got a foothold in Europe you know, by the other powerful nations just standing by, allowing it to happen, denying the existence of a problem.
Amen. It's been said on this forum before but needed to be posted in this thread. That summary is dead-on and all the happy bunny sellers in the world can't change the truth of that assessment.
What has happened is that e-smoking is ready to make a quick-buck -- and there are numerous Web sites now promising exactly that for those who take up selling e-cigs. Today's snake oil salesmen -- that's what they are.
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