Oh my God, you've done it! You've found the exact way that I wanna die. My life is complete now, so I'm off to San Fran to wait for the next belly rumble.
Sweet.
Why Is It Legal To Sell Cigarettes That is Murdering 5.4 Million People A Year?
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Oh my God, you've done it! You've found the exact way that I wanna die. My life is complete now, so I'm off to San Fran to wait for the next belly rumble.
Sweet.
I agree with your points,
new year quitter,
as to the rest of this discussion, ......
pass the popcorn thanks......
Di .......
new year quitter,
as to the rest of this discussion, ......
pass the popcorn thanks......
Di .......
I have been sitting on the sidelines here , and all I really have to contribute is my praise for all the posters here, for giving thought , and expending energy on what may well be a hopeless case , I admire the efforts of al the regular posters in sticking to their guns and TRYING to pass on the collective wisdom re marketing and safety claims being made, however it would appear some marketers just cant be shown what these forums have been working out since day one..... vote with your feet and spreading the word of unscrupulous practices where ever you can ........ eventually the shonksters wont be able to afford to advertise on billboards etc..........
P.S. God I love a good debate ... extra points to Nicowolf...... you are coming of age
superlative posting !!
P.S. God I love a good debate ... extra points to Nicowolf...... you are coming of age
superlative posting !!
Would it wrong of me to admit to being slightly aroused by your rant?
If not, then more please.
I know I'm new and all, but I gotta tell you, this is a bizarre thread. I did not know who the poster was until the members of this forum pointed it out and then posted his billboard - effectively you advertised for him - he never even signed his name and his profile doesn't advertise his company. Yet he very effectively manipulated this forum into advertising for him.
I think everyone is being a little paranoid here. I have done work in the medical device field and I can tell you from real experience that the FDA is capable of telling the difference between a company and an entire industry. Even today when they hold up shipmenst fo eCigs, they only hold up specific shipments that violate specific requirements. The OASIS database on FDA.gov is searchable. I suggest you all take a gander at it. If Jon's claims are unuspported or deemed misleading, they can fine him without fining anyone else. Will it draw attention to us? No more than is already there and with the comments made recently, the FDA and WHO cannot eb avoided - IOW, there is no flying under the radar here.
As for the Obama thing. The US President's image and words are public domain while he is in office. I doubt he has the time to drive up I-95 to be personally offended at the billboard, or has the time to do anything about it even if he was inclined to be.
FDA involvement in these devices is ultimately a good thing, IMO. I am the last person that wants to see these things off the market - for the first time in 27 years, I am smoke free and not suffering and depressed. On the other hand, I am appalled at the quality control and lack of disclosure on these devices. I am not certain that some controls on these products are not necessary.
Re: big tobacco - these guys aren't idiots. If the eCig is cheaper to produce/sell (no sin tax), solves the social stigma associated with smoking and can trun a profit, they will be all over them -Philip Morris probably has a team of engineers already working on an ejuice flavor.
Finally the FDA and all of these issues will bend to political will. Next time you feel the need to post a response to Jon and advertize for him, instead call your senator and HR rep or MP and tell them how you feel eCigs can solve a larger public health issue.
Sorry if I offended anybody with this messsage, but I think the tone here is too emotional and not constructive. I think we all want to see these things mainstreamed and as a community we should try to focus on that challenge.
I think everyone is being a little paranoid here. I have done work in the medical device field and I can tell you from real experience that the FDA is capable of telling the difference between a company and an entire industry. Even today when they hold up shipmenst fo eCigs, they only hold up specific shipments that violate specific requirements. The OASIS database on FDA.gov is searchable. I suggest you all take a gander at it. If Jon's claims are unuspported or deemed misleading, they can fine him without fining anyone else. Will it draw attention to us? No more than is already there and with the comments made recently, the FDA and WHO cannot eb avoided - IOW, there is no flying under the radar here.
As for the Obama thing. The US President's image and words are public domain while he is in office. I doubt he has the time to drive up I-95 to be personally offended at the billboard, or has the time to do anything about it even if he was inclined to be.
FDA involvement in these devices is ultimately a good thing, IMO. I am the last person that wants to see these things off the market - for the first time in 27 years, I am smoke free and not suffering and depressed. On the other hand, I am appalled at the quality control and lack of disclosure on these devices. I am not certain that some controls on these products are not necessary.
Re: big tobacco - these guys aren't idiots. If the eCig is cheaper to produce/sell (no sin tax), solves the social stigma associated with smoking and can trun a profit, they will be all over them -Philip Morris probably has a team of engineers already working on an ejuice flavor.
Finally the FDA and all of these issues will bend to political will. Next time you feel the need to post a response to Jon and advertize for him, instead call your senator and HR rep or MP and tell them how you feel eCigs can solve a larger public health issue.
Sorry if I offended anybody with this messsage, but I think the tone here is too emotional and not constructive. I think we all want to see these things mainstreamed and as a community we should try to focus on that challenge.
Jon (No-Brainer), I was afraid your arrogance would bring you here. I tried to apologize to your people over at ecigforum.com yesterday. It went as follows:
I just wanted to say "I'm Sorry" if upset anyone on this forum due to this "Safe Cig" drama. I really had no intention for my participation to set any fires. My viewpoint on all of this is:
Jon started every single thread involved with this billboard idea. If he had not put that out there on the forum, I would have never known anything about it. Once I learned of it, and thought about all of the possible implications it might have on my future with the e-cig, and I became concerned about Jon's motives, as it was for a lot of people who read Jon's words. My part started out very low key, coming from the direction of a polite plea for Jon to care for the consumer wishes for him to slow down. With each (IMO) arrogant reply he gave to the consumers pleas, and with each new thread he would start to rub it in their noses, I decided that "As long as he is going to put himself out there, I'm going to tell him exactly what I think". I realize that I probably took it too far, and for that I'm sorry. I never had intention of taking from this forum, only adding to it. I have decided to let be what will be in this billboard issue, but a last memo to Jon, be careful about the threads you start. I'm not the only one who doesn't appreciate your approach. A little less arrogance and a little more care to the consumer will serve you better. Thanks ya'll, and have a great day/evening!!!
It is obvious to me that either you did not see it, or you didn't care. I assume that you just don't care. You came over here to rub your Narcissistic Self-Absorbtion in our faces now. You know, it's not the cause that I disagree with you on. I am all for anything positive & constructive that will aid in the e-cig remaining an option for people who want to let go of evil tobacco. The problem is, I don't feel that it is what you are really after. I feel that you only care about your bottom line, and that you could care less about what the consumers want and need from the supplier side of things. That billboard is the stinking example of that fact. I have come to terms with the fears and worry about losing my e-cig. If the government bans them, it won't stop me from using them. It may turn me into a criminal, but it wouldn't be the first time that the government has done that to me. I guess, more than the subject of the argument, it is you that I don't like. I will not engage in anymore flame wars with you, go ahead and do your worst. Just know that I'm not the only one who doesn't like you (I'm sure that is evident to you already). I'm sure the mighty word of mouth will put you in your place eventually. I just feel sorry for everyone that works for you. They might be out of work soon if you don't get over yourself.
I just wanted to say "I'm Sorry" if upset anyone on this forum due to this "Safe Cig" drama. I really had no intention for my participation to set any fires. My viewpoint on all of this is:
Jon started every single thread involved with this billboard idea. If he had not put that out there on the forum, I would have never known anything about it. Once I learned of it, and thought about all of the possible implications it might have on my future with the e-cig, and I became concerned about Jon's motives, as it was for a lot of people who read Jon's words. My part started out very low key, coming from the direction of a polite plea for Jon to care for the consumer wishes for him to slow down. With each (IMO) arrogant reply he gave to the consumers pleas, and with each new thread he would start to rub it in their noses, I decided that "As long as he is going to put himself out there, I'm going to tell him exactly what I think". I realize that I probably took it too far, and for that I'm sorry. I never had intention of taking from this forum, only adding to it. I have decided to let be what will be in this billboard issue, but a last memo to Jon, be careful about the threads you start. I'm not the only one who doesn't appreciate your approach. A little less arrogance and a little more care to the consumer will serve you better. Thanks ya'll, and have a great day/evening!!!
It is obvious to me that either you did not see it, or you didn't care. I assume that you just don't care. You came over here to rub your Narcissistic Self-Absorbtion in our faces now. You know, it's not the cause that I disagree with you on. I am all for anything positive & constructive that will aid in the e-cig remaining an option for people who want to let go of evil tobacco. The problem is, I don't feel that it is what you are really after. I feel that you only care about your bottom line, and that you could care less about what the consumers want and need from the supplier side of things. That billboard is the stinking example of that fact. I have come to terms with the fears and worry about losing my e-cig. If the government bans them, it won't stop me from using them. It may turn me into a criminal, but it wouldn't be the first time that the government has done that to me. I guess, more than the subject of the argument, it is you that I don't like. I will not engage in anymore flame wars with you, go ahead and do your worst. Just know that I'm not the only one who doesn't like you (I'm sure that is evident to you already). I'm sure the mighty word of mouth will put you in your place eventually. I just feel sorry for everyone that works for you. They might be out of work soon if you don't get over yourself.
Cage - Wouldja pass the popcorn please?
Seriously. From what I've read on this and other forums, it is obvious to me that Jon is not listening. Although he has stated that he welcomes and appreciates all advice, we (all of you) are not getting through to him.
He believes what he believes and it is a lost cause.
The best thing that we, as a community, can do is to continue to educate those who come to this forum. It is unfortunate, however, that Jon will have many customers that will never find their way here.
Seriously. From what I've read on this and other forums, it is obvious to me that Jon is not listening. Although he has stated that he welcomes and appreciates all advice, we (all of you) are not getting through to him.
He believes what he believes and it is a lost cause.
The best thing that we, as a community, can do is to continue to educate those who come to this forum. It is unfortunate, however, that Jon will have many customers that will never find their way here.
Interesting debate, I am not good at writing stuff like that, glad I have you highly intelligent guys to help get the point through
My contribution is just pictures of the sign on Mars with its atmosphere this time and that was missing from the original picture.
My contribution is just pictures of the sign on Mars with its atmosphere this time and that was missing from the original picture.
Fatman, thanks for the encouraging words about the government agencies. You are correct that we need to maintain a perspective and keep it in proportion.
No-brainer was easy to spot. He has been registered here as a supplier for two months and only has 22 posts, five of which are in this thread. New suppliers on here tend to post more than most members because they have customers to take care of and products to stand by and advertise and they want to make themselves very available to the forum members - we are the long term customer base for them. Also, some of us remember his earlier posts talking about his mall kiosks and his grandiose plans. He was cautioned in those posts about posting truisms as opposed to truths, about making claims that cannot be substantiated in a court of law. He angered some people then, but was easier to ignore because he was new and less experienced and quit posting, leaving us to assume that he had slunk off somewhere to tend his wounded ego and perhaps improve his philosophy of business practice.
He also angered many people on the American e-cigarette forum and there is a heavy overlap in membership between the two forums, especially when this one was down.
The pic posted in this thread is a spoof of the original. In the original billboard, the line that says," abolish e-cigarettes" said," quit smoking".
We are not advertising for him, we are warning all who post and/or lurk here about him and his practices and his disregard for his consumers.
There is history to this conflict that has not been posted in this thread. If you care to spend your time catching up on the history, I am sure some nice person here will be happy to post the links. I simply do not have the patience at the moment - very tired and bordering on cranky, trying not to direct it at you, apologies if it seeps through.
No-brainer was easy to spot. He has been registered here as a supplier for two months and only has 22 posts, five of which are in this thread. New suppliers on here tend to post more than most members because they have customers to take care of and products to stand by and advertise and they want to make themselves very available to the forum members - we are the long term customer base for them. Also, some of us remember his earlier posts talking about his mall kiosks and his grandiose plans. He was cautioned in those posts about posting truisms as opposed to truths, about making claims that cannot be substantiated in a court of law. He angered some people then, but was easier to ignore because he was new and less experienced and quit posting, leaving us to assume that he had slunk off somewhere to tend his wounded ego and perhaps improve his philosophy of business practice.
He also angered many people on the American e-cigarette forum and there is a heavy overlap in membership between the two forums, especially when this one was down.
The pic posted in this thread is a spoof of the original. In the original billboard, the line that says," abolish e-cigarettes" said," quit smoking".
We are not advertising for him, we are warning all who post and/or lurk here about him and his practices and his disregard for his consumers.
There is history to this conflict that has not been posted in this thread. If you care to spend your time catching up on the history, I am sure some nice person here will be happy to post the links. I simply do not have the patience at the moment - very tired and bordering on cranky, trying not to direct it at you, apologies if it seeps through.
Now, for some popcorn while we await Jon's illuminated response - positive thinking.
(crunch, crunch)
(crunch, crunch)
I hear you, but like it or not, you are advertising for him. His only purpose here was to generate buzz, even if it was bad. And he did that very well. That's why he hasn't come back. He doesn't actually need to. To see that this is true, just consider the thread topic itself. No analysis. Just a hit and run that was never intended to add anything to the community. And then he got a member of the community to essentially take the position that eCigs are bad while he defended them (!). He's good. In a way you have to admire him.
BTW, I live in outside Philly and have seen this billboard and while Philly can be a nasty place at times, it never, ever, looked like the martian landscape in the jpeg that was posted
.Ya think?
. I could tell. But I saw all I needed to know in his post to the other forum where he said that the clear channel lawyers cleared the billboard. Thar was a deceptive statement. His implication was that if there was something wrong with product they would have stopped it. But that's not how it works. They only check to see if *they* have liability if his product turns nasty. His product could murder people, but so long as clear channel can claim that they were not the conveyance of the object with liability, they will run the ad. Like I said, he's good. No apologies needed for me anyways. Not offended.
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