... some flavors get stronger as they steep and other flavors get weaker as they steep? Is there any logic to this? I am taking notes and will adjust my next mixes but just curious.
Why Is It...?
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I don't think anyone here can give you an objective answer to that. Just recognize it and compensate for it, which you're doing. Knowing which flavors do what and how to compensate makes a good DIYer imo.
Would this be the case if it tasted good after mixed and then muted a week later?
What flavors are fading? I've found adding 1 or 2 drops of lemon juice per 5ml of fruit mixes make the taste pop and seems to stabilize the flavor. Fight the good fight 
Cheers,
Steve
Cheers,
Steve
Here are a couple of examples of what I have found...
I mixed FW Cinnamon Roll at 13%. It was perfect right off for me. It was not a strong flavor but I don't like strong cinnamon and could really taste the roll. Now after a week I can still taste it but it seems a bit weaker. Nothing major but some.
TFA Banana Nut Bread I mixed at 5%. It was a little weak and was thinking of going 6% on the next mix. Now a week later it is even weaker.
I mixed a peanut butter and milk chocolate both TFA and both at 8%. It tasted good after a couple of days but was lacking cream. Not real happy with the PB and will order some capellas next. Now a week later OMG! It almost has the taste of coconut. This mix was at a higher nic so I added some PG to the mix and it seems to have brought it back where it was.
The vanilla cupcake I mixed has seemed to stay the same.
I mixed FW Cinnamon Roll at 13%. It was perfect right off for me. It was not a strong flavor but I don't like strong cinnamon and could really taste the roll. Now after a week I can still taste it but it seems a bit weaker. Nothing major but some.
TFA Banana Nut Bread I mixed at 5%. It was a little weak and was thinking of going 6% on the next mix. Now a week later it is even weaker.
I mixed a peanut butter and milk chocolate both TFA and both at 8%. It tasted good after a couple of days but was lacking cream. Not real happy with the PB and will order some capellas next. Now a week later OMG! It almost has the taste of coconut. This mix was at a higher nic so I added some PG to the mix and it seems to have brought it back where it was.
The vanilla cupcake I mixed has seemed to stay the same.
Well FW flavors are known to be a little weaker than some other flavors out there, so you will probably need to go 15-20%. The banana nut bread I have but haven't experimented with yet. I'm actually thinking about trying it tomorrow. I've had the same experience with vanilla cupcake, seems to be pretty stable right off the bat, but I tend to add other things to it also. I know chocolate as a rule is a tough flavor to nail down and seems to need steeping , even then it seems to be a craps shoot with chocolate. Wish I could be more help. Good luck 
Cheers,
Steve
Cheers,
Steve
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If you have TFA banana nut bread it is good! I really like the flavor. I'm going to increase the % a bit, I don't think I went too high.
I am now venturing over to the Hangsen thread to get some education on tobacco flavors. I mixed 3 last night and am anxious for them to steep! While waiting I'm going to try to learn about these flavors.
I am now venturing over to the Hangsen thread to get some education on tobacco flavors. I mixed 3 last night and am anxious for them to steep! While waiting I'm going to try to learn about these flavors.
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No I don't think you went too high at all on the Banana Nut Bread - I was looking at the TFA flavoring thread and it seems like people were saying 5-7%, I also saw someone mixing 2% Graham Cracker in with it. I was thinking of adding either 2% Sweet Cream or LA Cream Cheese Frosting to 6-7% of Banana But Bread myself, still kicking it around in my head. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread.html
Cheers,
Steve
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My hypothesis on steeping isn't that the flavors actually change, rather with time, they merely are given time to spread out, so to speak. What I mean is; if you put 5% of flavoring into 30mls of base, it may taste more potent fresh than it would a week later. Why is that? Well, because the flavoring has had time to effectively "spread", thus causing the sense of weakening, or a mellower flavor. When in fact, the flavoring hasn't changed at all.
Another thing; with multi-flavoring blends, I believe it to have the same principles as I previously said. Let's say that an equal portion of flavoring 'A' and 'B' is put into a blend. Flavoring 'A' is far more potent than flavoring 'B'. When freshly mixed, you cannot taste flavoring 'B' at all, or, the over all taste is distorted because of the dominating taste of flavoring 'A'.
Well, apply the theory above to what's happening here. After a week, the flavorings have had time to spread through out the base, thus allowing the non-dominant flavors to come out. This is why I think people believe that steeping causes flavor change, where as I disagree. I believe it's just causing the original flavoring potency to change, rather than the flavoring itself.
Another thing; with multi-flavoring blends, I believe it to have the same principles as I previously said. Let's say that an equal portion of flavoring 'A' and 'B' is put into a blend. Flavoring 'A' is far more potent than flavoring 'B'. When freshly mixed, you cannot taste flavoring 'B' at all, or, the over all taste is distorted because of the dominating taste of flavoring 'A'.
Well, apply the theory above to what's happening here. After a week, the flavorings have had time to spread through out the base, thus allowing the non-dominant flavors to come out. This is why I think people believe that steeping causes flavor change, where as I disagree. I believe it's just causing the original flavoring potency to change, rather than the flavoring itself.
Great theory and explanation.
Reincorces my thoughts on why larger batches of juice seem to take longer to meld together for me.
I've started mixing 120ml as my standard size batch for my advs.
They seem very weak compared to my 10ml batches.
After sitting 4-5 days, it all seems to come together and the taste matches that of a lesser steeped small batch.
When we first started DIYing, we'd purchased some flavors from Mom & Pops - and run into a problem with what seemed like 'too little flavor'. So I emailed what we'd done along with a few questions and got a great response.
One of the things the gal suggested (especially at our stage of DIYing) was to be sure to test each flavor-mix every few days to understand the "steeping cycle". From what she could ascertain, some of our flavors were at a point where juices temporarily fade for a few days - but then 'come back' to the original strength. Huh? says we - they taste one way right after mixing, then fade a bit, then come back? She said that some flavors/juices do that (and on another topic, mentioned that alcohol sometimes makes flavors weaker).
Frustratingly, we hadn't tested them the day after we'd mixed them, so we didn't know if they ever had been strong enough (or what they might 'come back to being'). However, they DID get stronger than they were when we'd tested them (which was, I dunno, probably about 7-10 days after mixing them ???).
We now try to test all our mixes every 3 days (and take good notes). However, sometimes it's just too much of a pain in the .... to stress about it (particularly when there are several flavors in a mix, and there's no way to tell which one is doing what).
What we've decided is that we don't make decisions until most flavors have steeped at least two weeks; and tobaccos always get 4-5 weeks before a final determination is made.
Of course, after a few months of 'mileage', we got to the point we could tell right away if it was going to have the potential to be 'vapable or not'. But we don't make any major changes until it's been 2-4 weeks (even with an ultrasonic for steeping).
'Hope that helps along your DIY pathways!
"My hypothesis on steeping isn't that the flavors actually change, rather with time, they merely are given time to spread out, so to speak. What I mean is; if you put 5% of flavoring into 30mls of base, it may taste more potent fresh than it would a week later. Why is that? Well, because the flavoring has had time to effectively "spread", thus causing the sense of weakening, or a mellower flavor. When in fact, the flavoring hasn't changed at all."
This makes perfect sense. Although my mixes were small, so was the flavoring in these mixes. Thanks for your insight.
This makes perfect sense. Although my mixes were small, so was the flavoring in these mixes. Thanks for your insight.
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Thanks we2rcool for your comments as well. I am paying attention to all that is said here.
I "might" have gotten a little carried away when I started mixing and mixed too many at one time. Testing all of those every few days would be impossible for me. I will keep that in mind in the future.
I love learning new things and I know this will take some time. I do appreciate all the help!
I have only been vaping for 3 months, before that I knew NOTHING about any of it. I am amazed where this journey has led me. Everything I have learned has come from this forum and the wonderful people here. There is no way to express how thankful I am.
I mixed my first 3 tobacco flavors on Friday. I will be sure to test these regularly for at least a month. I can't wait to find out what I have! Now off to the Hangsen thread to read the next 100 pages to see what knowledge I can get. I do take LOTS of notes!
I "might" have gotten a little carried away when I started mixing and mixed too many at one time. Testing all of those every few days would be impossible for me.
I will keep that in mind in the future.I love learning new things and I know this will take some time. I do appreciate all the help!
I have only been vaping for 3 months, before that I knew NOTHING about any of it. I am amazed where this journey has led me. Everything I have learned has come from this forum and the wonderful people here. There is no way to express how thankful I am.
I mixed my first 3 tobacco flavors on Friday. I will be sure to test these regularly for at least a month. I can't wait to find out what I have! Now off to the Hangsen thread to read the next 100 pages to see what knowledge I can get. I do take LOTS of notes!
Thanks we2rcool for your comments as well. I am paying attention to all that is said here.
I "might" have gotten a little carried away when I started mixing and mixed too many at one time. Testing all of those every few days would be impossible for me.
I love learning new things and I know this will take some time. I do appreciate all the help!
I have only been vaping for 3 months, before that I knew NOTHING about any of it. I am amazed where this journey has led me. Everything I have learned has come from this forum and the wonderful people here. There is no way to express how thankful I am.
I mixed my first 3 tobacco flavors on Friday. I will be sure to test these regularly for at least a month. I can't wait to find out what I have! Now off to the Hangsen thread to read the next 100 pages to see what knowledge I can get. I do take LOTS of notes!
Oh yes, we love the 'testing phase' (it's SO interesting to explore what's happening as it happens - and we learn SO much)...but holy-moly, the last mixing session we had, we mixed like 12 different flavors (all at 2.5% & 5%) - so we have around 24 to test "per session". It's incredible the way some at lower percentages are more flavorful; it's even more incredible how they change (losing chemical/flowery tastes, flavors 'coming out' or 'sitting down' - some new things appearing after 10 days that weren't there to start with at ALL...) -- but it would take HOURS every few days to take the notes (heck, it takes hours just to get through them all without logging it all).
Knowledge is the key to successful DIYing - so with your passion for learning, you'll be brewin' up winners in no time!
The people here are truly wonderful...as is the entire "staff" and system of ECF.
I agree... knowledge is key!
That is why before I ordered ANY flavors I read the entire thread on "best flavors" and took lots of notes along the way. I even printed out the list and have notes there as well. I know there are some that don't agree on percentages but it gave me a place to start and find what I like. I'm still not sure if the results will stay the same or not. I was happy on mixing day but some of that has changed and been noted and I still have some steeping.
I have also read the entire thread on TFA which is most of my flavors. I am now in the process of reading the hangsen thread and just mixed 3 of those tobacco flavors. I still have LOTS of flavors I want to buy and try. It will be a little at a time for me but I am enjoying every minute of it! I want to take each brand one at a time to better understand what each has to offer.
ECF is the best place I have ever made myself at home! Love, love, love this place!
Keep your equipment in mind too. If you're vaping that Cinnamon Roll from the same device for a week, you might need to clean the coil to get the taste back. Also our taste buds get fickle. I always have to remind myself of these things, keep things clean and switch it up.
Good point!
I have been vaping the cinnamon roll quite a bit but have been switching it up too along with devices. At the moment I have 3 devices in front of me with something different in each. Thanks for the reminder and I think I am going to switch to juices that have steeped for a week and see what I think of those.
I have been vaping the cinnamon roll quite a bit but have been switching it up too along with devices. At the moment I have 3 devices in front of me with something different in each. Thanks for the reminder and I think I am going to switch to juices that have steeped for a week and see what I think of those.
I posted up a great chemistry video a couple weeks ago. Need to dig the link up again as it shows the principles of chemical reactions. Except the chemist takes it to another level showing how chemical mixes can have all sorts of internal timers. Colors of mixes can change again and again in endless cycles. Reactions can occur instantly and over time different reactions can occur.
We mix based on what we think might taste good but sometimes things turn out in ways we never anticipated. I never would have thought certain flavors could potentially go well with others like Marshmallow and Watermelon. It sounds sickly sweet but the way the compounds react can be totally different then anyone expected. I have made some wonderful juices by accident trying to fix bad juice. Some of them even taste like vomit now after sitting for a few months. So there will be juices that taste great out the gate and turn nasty after steeping. Others might taste like death at first and get really good in a month or two.
We mix based on what we think might taste good but sometimes things turn out in ways we never anticipated. I never would have thought certain flavors could potentially go well with others like Marshmallow and Watermelon. It sounds sickly sweet but the way the compounds react can be totally different then anyone expected. I have made some wonderful juices by accident trying to fix bad juice. Some of them even taste like vomit now after sitting for a few months. So there will be juices that taste great out the gate and turn nasty after steeping. Others might taste like death at first and get really good in a month or two.
We would definitely appreciate having that link/video! It floors me how often when people discuss "steeping" that they insist that there's no possibility of 'chemical reactions' having anything to do with the changing of the flavors over time.
Wow, marshmallow & watermelon...strangely enough, I can see how that'd work. We did some experimenting with marshallow early on and found, well, it didn't do the "sickly sweet" thing we expected.
I can't recall where I saw it, but one of the first things I read about DIYing was something like: "these are chemical blends designed to mimic natural flavors - they are not natural flavors. Hence, due to chemical interactions, *chocolate* + *caramel* is not necessarily going to = *chocolate caramel*!"
Since I'm a very good cook (and assuming that alone would automatically make me a great DIYer), I have found that information has 'saved the juice' more often than just about any piece of DIY wisdom on ECF!
THANK YOU!
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