Why is WTA such a controversial subject?

[Berylanna]

While I am not certain, I was under the impression that it "keeps" the same as regular nic-liquid. As you know--air, light, fluctuating temperatures (in extremes) are the enemy of long-term storage of nic liquid, so I gather it's no different with WTA.

I prefer glass for all medium to long term storage (amber is best, but I have a thing for blue cobalt).

I am moving soon and am getting a small apartment fridge for the basement (to be set at about 55 degrees for long term storage of premixed liquids..unless I find out there is a better way/temp).

Those used to be very famous energy hogs -- I think because of sloppily built door seals. I guess that might have changed. Time to go to Consumer Reports? Or somewhere else? I know that the original very-energy-efficient fridges were created so that third-world medical missions could keep insulin cool with a solar-charged battery...............



However, if anybody has tested 'keeping' WTA, I'd like to hear about it. I have to say that per my very limited college chemistry, it is by no means guaranteed that one organic chemical will 'keep' the same as a different one. Unless there is some property of the 'family' that makes it like that. (i.e. alkaloids in general or something like that.)

 

[stevegmu]

I've been meaning to try some WTA juice to see if there is any merit to the hype, but the only company I know that sells it never has any in stock.

 

[unloaded]

Got my unflavored in from WholeCig yestrday. A little on the grassy side flavor wise but its very light and something I can deal with. Very pleased with the lack of sweetness I was expecting with 100% VG juice. My unflavored nic juice at 60/40 is too sweet and I add BitterWizard to knock it down a notch. Vaped the stuff all evening and was feeling very relaxed also I slept like a baby. Best nights sleep I've had in years. Right now I've got it mixed with some Gorilla Juice in my Reo, gonna roll with it today and see how it does. I'll be stocking up on more of this, if for nothing more than an evening vape. I'd like bigger bottles and higher levels if possible, makes for easier bulk storage.

 

[DVap]

Dvap, if you're able to and wouldn't mind, could you explain why there was a time when you were "not a fan of nornicotine." (Though I am not sure if this is still the case, or even if what I read was meant to be taken literally.)

I can vaguely recall having that notion. I think I was more interested in anatabine and anabasine at the time. I think I've taken a couple steps back from perceiving any certainty about much of anything as time has passed. More of an attitude of not advancing any notion based on anything less than certainty.

 

[rothenbj]

I hear you, or rather, I see your point. I do find it funny that when crafting a phrase, which may get repeated so many times that it'll inevitably be shortened to an acronym, it seems that certain acronyms/phrases just sound better than others (so much so that the phrase may need to be re-thought, just for the acronym's sake). I have a thread called Regular Atty Drippers (A Dying Breed?) and I had the mods change it from what I originally entitled it, Standard Atty Drippers (A Dying Breed?), because I figured, I wouldn't want anyone referring to us that vape that way (if the phrase caught on) as SAD (standard atty drippers). LOL

Speaking of vaping, I sure would love to ask you, Dvap, some questions--what type of device/atomizer do you use, and especially, what flavors do you gravitate toward? Do you still vape? A friend asked me the other night if I knew what you vaped and the funny thing is, I sometimes forget that at the end of the day, you were/are a vaper like the rest of us, not just Mr. Wizard (haha). Yes, you definitely have provided a wealth (for real) of scientific information/discovery on this forum (I read it all the time), but sometimes the simple stuff, from a person like you, can be fascinating (and it can be normalizing for those people that are too intimidated to even talk to you).

If you get a second to answer, that would be cool, if not, that's cool too.

I got all the way through this thread without the temptation of posting numerous times simply to avoid having to avoid finding out where I left off. With only 4 pages to read, I felt I could risk it.

First, Hi DVAP, wherever you are. Still off in foreign lands? I think that's the last I saw anything from you when you were about to travel and can't remember how long ago that was. I'll have to tell Hitt you're alive if he hasn't found out for himself.

Mr Mann, I just dug out of my vault an old cigalike atty yesterday for the specific purpose of dripping Wholecigs WTA. I put a ml in a tank and felt I was tasting a hint of tobacco, but wasn't sure so I wanted to isolate. Now I just taste a bit of VG sweetness.

Other thoughts as I passed through this thread.

NET and WTA. Has anyone mixed the two? It sounds like, based on my total lack of knowledge about NETs and no desire to have a pure tobacco taste, that combination would come as close to smoking a cigarette as you could get.

I don't get out of the smokeless, legal and news sections, but its good to see the lack of argument about the good/bad of a different product in the war against harm reduction, a battle I hope we're winning.

And finally, ECF has got to be the largest, most comprehensive accumulation of knowledge on a subject on the net.

 

[rothenbj]

Swedish Match brands in the U.S. are Longhorn, Timber Wolf, Red Man and General (never heard of that last one and I dip)

One more post and I'm at it again. General is the snus line and maker of my favorite, Mint. It's starting to show up in some convenience stores. Hopefully it will grow in popularity. I had to buy Wintergreen the last stop to get fresh cans. While I'm growing a taste for it, Mint is my main go to.

 

[rothenbj]

why is WTA required for some smokers to get off cigarettes? does it give an instant nicotine hit/buzz like real cigarettes? I know that regular juices take a minute or two for the nicotine to really get in the system. is WTA vapeable by itself or does it need to be added with PG/VG?

Somewhere in the deep archives of ECF and elsewhere, I gave my opinion of cigarette addiction. I should have saved it as a word document since I wouldn't need to repeat it. I call the addiction the three headed monster. I'll give the short version. Some smokers are "addicted" to the habit of smoking. They run from the social smokers to the one here and there types. If they find a flavor they like, they can get off cigarettes and nicotine overnight or over a very brief period of time. Then there are those that really need the nicotine for whatever reason, just like hose that need caffeine to function. I'm a social caffeine user, but I've seen the type that is miserable if they can't get their "fix".

Finally there is that segment of the population, both smokers and non-smokers that have some degree of depression in their physiology. The non-smokers either live with it or, as the ANTZ would say, are "addicted" to prescription drugs. Of course the ANTZ wouldn't say Pharma patients are addicted, they're just getting the medication they need. The smoker with this in their physiology has been smoking as a way to self medicate, that was my problem.

I was addicted to the habit of bringing a cigarette to my lips every half hour or so and, when I started vaping, that didn't change much. I dropped from my 2-3 PAD habit to six cigarettes. However I had that e cig at my mouth just as regularly, maybe more. Six months later, I not only was vaping heavy, I was also smoking more. I started getting tired of the maintenance required with e cigs (the olde days, so to speak).

I started asking and reading and ended up with snus and those other alkaloids. The first portion of snus signified my last drag on a cigarette. The additional alkaloids or the combo of the WTA combination removed the need for what I was getting from cigarettes, self medication. If you need something else, you're body will tell you. It's only applicable to a fraction of the entire smoking population.

 

[Mr.Mann]

NET and WTA. Has anyone mixed the two? It sounds like, based on my total lack of knowledge about NETs and no desire to have a pure tobacco taste, that combination would come as close to smoking a cigarette as you could get.

I mentioned in the Natural Tobacco thread the other day that,

I tell you one thing, if someone ever extracts WTA from a tobacco, then extracts the flavor of that same tobacco and marries it with the WTA, I am buying!

Maybe one day?

 

[rothenbj]

I mentioned in the Natural Tobacco thread the other day that,.....

There's a thread for that too? Man, I really don't get out much now that this little town grew into a metropolis.

 

[Mr.Mann]

There's a thread for that too? Man, I really don't get out much now that this little town grew into a metropolis.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/274904-natural-tobaccos.html

It's always good to see some the super vets around here.

 

[hittman]

I was hiding in my own little corner of the forum when Roth told me about this thread. I am glad to see that this thread hasn't turned into another pissing match like most others have. This could turn into another one of those threads that people reference when someone asks about WTA.

I haven't tried the wta from wholecig but have a question for those that have. I've heard a few people mention a distinct flavor to their unflavored wta and wonder if those that have tried it would comment?

 

[Mr.Mann]

I was hiding in my own little corner of the forum when Roth told me about this thread. I am glad to see that this thread hasn't turned into another pissing match like most others have. This could turn into another one of those threads that people reference when someone asks about WTA.

I haven't tried the wta from wholecig but have a question for those that have. I've heard a few people mention a distinct flavor to their unflavored wta and wonder if those that have tried it would comment?

Yes. There is a distinct taste, though it's "unflavored." To me, it tastes like a dry, albeit subtle, generic tobacco taste. I used to go back and forth on this as I read too much of stuff on other forums, but this is the likely the flavor difference between Tobacco Road with WTA and without. I remember when I first had Tobacco Road/Dry Blend without WTA, it seemed to me to be not just missing the hit, but a tobacco presence.

I've read several times where Dvap spoke about the "taste" of WTA, and I think this is what I am experiencing. A similar thing was previously mentioned in Aroma's FAQs, but I don't see it there anymore. It's "like" and ash taste, but not overt or in any kind of TA taste. I like it.

 

[VaporMizer]

I mentioned in the Natural Tobacco thread the other day that,

"I tell you one thing, if someone ever extracts WTA from a tobacco, then extracts the flavor of that same tobacco and marries it with the WTA, I am buying! "

Maybe one day?

I just posted a reply to this on the Natural Tobacco thread, but it's probably more on-topic here.

I think a method to produce something like that is already outlined in an old thread here on ECF.

I just spent a few hours this weekend reading this thread:

Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

There are several twists and turns but what it evolves into is basically a collaboration between an ECF member called tceight and DVap to develop a relatively safe kitchen made WTA extract where the extracted alkaloids are never concentrated to overtly dangerous levels while using household food safe chemicals.

The results are impressive by all accounts and only lack in purity compared to DVap's lab made WTA extract, and of the few posters who actually tried both, most seemed to prefer the dirtier kitchen version!

The "impurities" are basically stuff that would be in NET flavorings, but it would still be much cleaner than most NETs (DVap calls the resulting extract from simple soaks "filthy"...I agree. Take a sniff of that smoldering crap buildup on your coil after a long NET session...a full ashtray of pure filth in every pindrop).

Definitely seems worth a try. Ascorbic Acid (vitamin c) is mentioned as an alternative acid (they mostly use citric acid in the thread) and my recent readings on TSNA reduction says that ascorbic acid is a very effective method...I love it when two things get done in one step.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I am standing back from that one. I'll take my chances with the good ol' WTA.

 

[VaporMizer]

I am standing back from that one. I'll take my chances with the good ol' WTA.

It is "good ol' WTA" with a few impurities that are normally sold as NETs...except the NETs have a lot more fats, sugars, tannins and a bunch of other stuff that have no chance of vaporizing.

 

[Mr.Mann]

It is "good ol' WTA" with a few impurities that are normally sold as NETs...except the NETs have a lot more fats and tannins and a bunch of other stuff that have no chance of vaporizing.

Okay. I admit that I didn't even peruse that thread. I will. I will give it a fair shot. Once again, my bad for rushing to judgement. Judging without a solid basis to stand on is never a good look.

 

[VaporMizer]

Okay. I admit that I didn't even peruse that thread. I will. I will give it a fair shot. Once again, my bad for rushing to judgement. Judging without a solid basis to stand on is never a good look.

You can get to the meat of the thread (the parts that actually deal with WTA extraction) by searching the thread for tceight and DVap posts....not that there are no other contributers, but it'll let you skip a lot of the other alternatives and get right into the actual extracting WTA from tobacco.

 

[Dustin Brown]

I notice a distinct chemically smell/taste in the WholeCig unflavored. It is alsmost like nail polish remover. There was this little dime store toy I got once as a kid. It came in a tube with a straw. You would squeeze out a bit of this substance onto the straw and could make strong bubbles. That is what the unflavored smells like to me. I have let 5 other people smell it and 3 of them said grass, hay, and tobacco. Only one could smell the thing that I smell. So, you might like it.
I added some flavors to a small bottle and it isn't as pronounced, but still present. I will vape it, but it is pretty low in the queue.

I haven't tried the wta from wholecig but have a question for those that have. I've heard a few people mention a distinct flavor to their unflavored wta and wonder if those that have tried it would comment?

 

[rothenbj]

I notice a distinct chemically smell/taste in the WholeCig unflavored. It is alsmost like nail polish remover. There was this little dime store toy I got once as a kid. It came in a tube with a straw. You would squeeze out a bit of this substance onto the straw and could make strong bubbles. That is what the unflavored smells like to me. I have let 5 other people smell it and 3 of them said grass, hay, and tobacco. Only one could smell the thing that I smell. So, you might like it.
I added some flavors to a small bottle and it isn't as pronounced, but still present. I will vape it, but it is pretty low in the queue.

When I got my Wholecig, I loaded a tank and tried it. I noticed something beside the slight sweetness but couldn't put my finger on it. I suggested a faint tobacco taste. I then thought of how much was wasted in the tank system itself so I pulled out an old 510 atty and drip tip. I haven't noticed anything but the slight sweetness. Unfortunately or fortunately, I've never been very sensitive to the sltght subtleties if taste.

 

[hittman]

I notice a distinct chemically smell/taste in the WholeCig unflavored. It is alsmost like nail polish remover. There was this little dime store toy I got once as a kid. It came in a tube with a straw. You would squeeze out a bit of this substance onto the straw and could make strong bubbles. That is what the unflavored smells like to me. I have let 5 other people smell it and 3 of them said grass, hay, and tobacco. Only one could smell the thing that I smell. So, you might like it.
I added some flavors to a small bottle and it isn't as pronounced, but still present. I will vape it, but it is pretty low in the queue.

I know what you are talking about with the bubbles. I had those when I was a kid too. I think they were called super elastic bubbles or something like that. Anyway, I was just curious about the flavor of the unflavored. I didn't know if the flavor that others had mentioned was just the sweetness from the VG. Did you by chance try it on a new atty/carto and had the same result? I think I'm just going to have to order some for myself to try so I can see what people are talking about.