Why Move to California........

[mwplefty]

When you can experience their ridiculously progressive culture right here in Illinois. Okay, so tonight most of the family was out at a graduation party. They had dinner at the party, and I decided to eat out because I'm awful at cooking. I chose to go to California Pizza Kitchen. So I arrive at the restaurant, get seated right away, and begin vaping.

After I finished my first glass of Pepsi about 15-20 minutes later, the assistant manager comes up and asks if I'd like a refill. She seemed overly nice to me, and I didn't understand why at the time. She comes back with another Pepsi for me, and informs me that although I was not technically smoking, my vaping could confuse other customers in the restaurant. I asked her if it was restaurant policy to prohibit vaping. She claimed that she was not sure about an official policy, but that CPK generally frowns upon anything that looks like smoking. She agreed with me that this disdain for e-cigarettes probably had something to do with company's roots in California, the most anti-smoking state in the country. The assistant manager was even a vaper herself but never vaped at work. She probably couldn't stand that I was freely vaping when she was prohibited from doing so. That's probably why she had spoken with the General Manager who told her that vaping was not allowed. I then stopped vaping.

I believe that the General Manager had the right to either prohibit or allow vaping in a privately-owned establishment. We live in a free market system in the United States. I can choose to spend my money any way that I desire. I don't have to eat at a restaurant that prohibits vaping. I can go to the restaurant in the exact same shopping center that permits me to vape as much as I want. Private property rights exist, and we must respect them no matter how much we disagree with them. That is why I did not contest being asked to stop vaping. The people in charge of the restaurant have the right to allow "this" and prohibit "that" on their property. However, since California Pizza Kitchen does not have a written policy regarding vaping, I will be more than happy to vape at any of their other restaurants throughout the country until either a policy is put in place or I am asked to stop by the General Manager and/or the Owner.

If a customer had asked me to stop, I would not have stopped. It is not their property, and I am not harming them by vaping. I'm being no more annoying than if I was using my cell phone because I'm not blowing vapor in their face as they're eating. I would have educated them instead. If the assistant manager had informed me of a customer complaint, I would have used that as an opportunity to educate, and I would not have stopped vaping solely because that person can't tell the difference between burning tobacco and water vapor. I love CPK, but I will re-think visiting that particular location the next time I'm in the mood for pizza.

 

[Striker911]

Tough situation, but you did the right thing. I would have a real hard time if someone told me not to vape but I have been asked and stopped as well. Reason I have such a hard time is that I was so tired of hearing how bad smoking was. Change that to vape and when someone still says something it starts a fire inside.

 

[AttyPops]

Well, as a general rule, I don't vape where smoking isn't allowed. And in my state... that's everywhere public including bars (which is stupid). Unless vaping is specifically allowed/advertised by the establishment where smoking isn't.

So for me to sit down and start vaping... is discourteous to my host. And it doesn't help the cause IMO. Others will disagree. However, although vaping is not smoking, we do know that some are sensitive to either PG or VG. Also... it's more of a manners thing.

Now, I'm not saying that I'd never, ever, ever, stealth vape, but then if I did I wouldn't freak people out either....it's hard to educate an entire room full of people at once.

I wish they'd ask "vaping or non-vaping". Alas, not so enlightened yet. Best to ask 1st, IMO.

 

[Eddie.Willers]

Well said, mwplefty - you hit the many nails of the issue on the head...it's all about property rights.

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

First of all, I take exception with the idea that CA is the zenith of anti-smoking National Socialism. That particular infamy belongs to New York—or at least the urban section under the Bloomberg Nazi regime. Here, smokers pay half the $10-a-pack mark of New York's de facto prohibition. And we can buy a Coca Cola at will.

As to CPK's problem with your blowing vapor—or more specifically, the staff of the Chicago remote location you visited—these people weren't likely San Francisco transplants with a conspiratorial aim of infesting Chicago with California culture of urban legend.

They were minimum-wage pizza slingers, and Chicago natives. Our problem with discriminating vapor from smoke is not theirs. They're just trying to get through the night without following yet another thoroughly corrupt Chicago mayor to the Big House.

 

[supergerbil]

First of all, I take exception with the idea that CA is the zenith of anti-smoking National Socialism. That particular infamy belongs to New York—or at least the urban section under the Bloomberg Nazi regime. Here, smokers pay half the $10-a-pack mark of New York's de facto prohibition. And we can buy a Coca Cola at will.

lol you need to come up north sometime. We have entire cities that have banned smoking in any public place within city limits. But yeah a pack of 27s only cost about 6.50 so maybe we cant claim the ASNS title.

Anywho..... yeah. While vapor isnt smoke I can see how it would be distracting in close quarters and find it hard to fault a private business that has a no vaping indoors policy. Its really only government bans/regulations/restrictions that rub me wrong.

Years of dealing with EDD, the Franchise Tax Board, and the IRS has left me with a bad taste in my mouth regarding government regulations.

 

[peteyboy]

Good old chicago, lol. Sounds like you are on the northside somewhere. I have yet to see a vaper around here, I usually get strange looks when people see me with my PV. If I were an employee of CPK, or any restaurant for that matter, I would tell you the same thing, especially if I thought my minimum wage job was on the line by allowing you to vape. People generally dont like something they dont know about, and although ecigs are catching on, alot of people still dont know about them. It looks like smoke, and thats enough for most. Frustrating? yes, understandable? yes. And what do we really know about vaping indoors? The effects of vaping from a health perspective is an unknown. You can show me all the studies you want, nobody will know for quite a while, and like it or not, we are all test dummies. I choose to vape because my chances of dying from lung cancer, or any other smoking related disease, is HOPEFULLY significantly less. Do you have kids? Do/would you vape in the house with them? I dont, because tomorrow, there may be a new study, which can say, anything.

 

[bodrell]

I'm all for private property rights and abhor nanny-statism, so I would respect a company's request that I not vape/smoke/eat food brought in from outside/go barefoot/whatever in their establishment. These are all legal activities but just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good etiquette to do my grocery shopping while chowing down on a hamburger and fries.

Many people don't understand what's in vapor and what effect is may have health-wise - really, none of us know that at this point. So although I think it's ignorant to disallow vaping, in reality, my vaping disseminates something into the air that other people close to me will inhale, and if they choose not to - or the establishment decides they don't want to disgruntle non-vaping customers, that is really OK by me.

I am a hospice volunteer, and among other rules, one is not wearing perfume or scented body lotion on visits in case someone has an allergic on unpleasant reaction. Now, I think this is simply stupid. Especially given that heavy-duty cleaners and disinfectants with all sorts of scents are used, along with meds and whatever that have a long laundry-list of side-effects. But, whatever. A nursing home or private patient doesn't want me vaping on their property because they're nervous about what's in the vapor...their prerogative. I educate whenever I can but I don't see the point in being militant about it.

 

[peteyboy]

Also, if there were any "culture" to allow vaping in a restaurant, it would be a progressive culture.

 

[supergerbil]

Also, if there were any "culture" to allow vaping in a restaurant, it would be a progressive culture.

Here's a quote from a NY Times article:

The controversy is part of a long-running philosophical debate about public health policy, but with an odd role reversal. In the past, conservatives have leaned toward “abstinence only” policies for dealing with problems like teenage pregnancy and ...... addiction, while liberals have been open to “harm reduction” strategies like encouraging birth control and dispensing methadone.

When it comes to nicotine, though, the abstinence forces tend to be more liberal, including Democratic officials at the state and national level who have been trying to stop the sale of e-cigarettes and ban their use in smoke-free places. They’ve argued that smokers who want an alternative source of nicotine should use only thoroughly tested products like Nicorette gum and prescription patches — and use them only briefly, as a way to get off nicotine altogether.

 

[peteyboy]

I could be wrong, but thats my opinion. I definitely do not believe anything I read, or see on the news. Especially when it comes to politics. Do you watch fox news? Do you believe what they say?

 

[bodrell]

Supergerbil, interesting quote from that NYT article, do you have a link to the whole piece?
One way or another, sex and drugs and rock and roll make a whole lot of people nervous, even now.

 

[OnnaB]

I just don't vape where I know I can't smoke. Until enough people know about vaping, they will see it as smoking. While you are unhappy, because you weren't allowed to vape, there were probably more there who were unhappy about you vaping...who do you think they will cater to?

 

[supergerbil]

Supergerbil, interesting quote from that NYT article, do you have a link to the whole piece?
One way or another, sex and drugs and rock and roll make a whole lot of people nervous, even now.

BOOM! Gerbil has got the link!

Well actually I originally got it from someone here on ECF but I thought it was good enough to merit a bookmark.

What is really tricking me off is I FINALLY found something to get me off analogs that actually WORKS and lo and behold the mother frakking government along with the thought/behavior police are trying to regulate it out of my reach.

Makes a fella want to move to a small cabin up in the mountains.....

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

I could be wrong, but thats my opinion. I definitely do not believe anything I read, or see on the news. Especially when it comes to politics. Do you watch fox news? Do you believe what they say?

In point of fact, you are wrong. Supergerbil's point was astute, and should be obvious.

Both sides of the fence speak of freedom, when it's politically expedient to do so. Both turn the key locking your handcuffs, if your idea of freedom isn't theirs.

At present, the progressive stance on vaping is to class it along with that that it appears to be: smoking. Ban it. Stamp out the sin. None of that reduced-risk nonsense.

Teenage sex? If you're right of center, the answer is abstinence. Ban it. None of that reduced-risk nonsense.

 

[bodrell]

Thank you for the link, supergerbil! Off to read...

 

[supergerbil]

In point of fact, you are wrong. Supergerbil's point was astute, and should be obvious.

Both sides of the fence speak of freedom, when it's politically expedient to do so. Both turn the key locking your handcuffs, if your idea of freedom isn't theirs.

At present, the progressive stance on vaping is to class it along with that that it appears to be: smoking. Ban it. Stamp out the sin. None of that reduced-risk nonsense.

Teenage sex? If you're right of center, the answer is abstinence. Ban it. None of that reduced-risk nonsense.

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. lol.


So we are gonna talk politics in regards to vaping? Ok, lets do this thing.

I am a registered independent and would describe myself as fiscally conservative and socially moderate. I basically believe that the government should stay out of our day to day lives a much as possible however they should intervene in the private sector when absolutely necessary. I understand that ALL of the major news networks/services are businesses are in fact businesses whos first responsibility is to their shareholders and not "The Truth" (thats capitalism folks, good bad or indifferent thats what we have).

All that being said my personal opinion on the pending FDA legislation and regulating vaping in general is nothing more than a power/money grab by the increasingly power hungry US government. Vaping frakking WORKS!!!! It is working for me and it worked for my brother in law who is over two years analog free on a old school ego. And yet they are trying to make it harder for smokers to switch by taxing/regulating it to death. The government feeds off increasing regulations; its called job security for bureaucrats. They dont give a damn about us, our health, or anything else in regards to the common man and woman.

As PoliticallyIncorrect said:

"Both sides of the fence speak of freedom, when it's politically expedient to do so. Both turn the key locking your handcuffs, if your idea of freedom isn't theirs."


Thats it in a nutshell folks.


Disclaimer: This is my opinion as an American citizen on the US Government. I cant speak with personal experience as to the practices of other countries governments however I wouldn't be surprised if ALL politicians EVERYWHERE were the same.

 

[mwplefty]

Well, as a general rule, I don't vape where smoking isn't allowed. And in my state... that's everywhere public including bars (which is stupid). Unless vaping is specifically allowed/advertised by the establishment where smoking isn't.

So for me to sit down and start vaping... is discourteous to my host. And it doesn't help the cause IMO. Others will disagree. However, although vaping is not smoking, we do know that some are sensitive to either PG or VG. Also... it's more of a manners thing.

Now, I'm not saying that I'd never, ever, ever, stealth vape, but then if I did I wouldn't freak people out either....it's hard to educate an entire room full of people at once.

I wish they'd ask "vaping or non-vaping". Alas, not so enlightened yet. Best to ask 1st, IMO.

Well think about how long it took most restaurants to ask "smoking" or "non-smoking." Smoking sections didn't even appear in restaurants until the early-1970's and laws requiring such sections didn't even exist until the late-1980's/early-1990's. I can see it being a while before restaurants take a definitive stance on vaping. It's still a very new phenomenon (2003 to be exact).

 

[mwplefty]

I could be wrong, but thats my opinion. I definitely do not believe anything I read, or see on the news. Especially when it comes to politics. Do you watch fox news? Do you believe what they say?

I'm very conservative, but I think FOX News is a joke. I watch them for entertainment purposes only. I get most of my news from the Internet or the local newspaper.

 

[mwplefty]

First of all, I take exception with the idea that CA is the zenith of anti-smoking National Socialism. That particular infamy belongs to New York—or at least the urban section under the Bloomberg Nazi regime. Here, smokers pay half the $10-a-pack mark of New York's de facto prohibition. And we can buy a Coca Cola at will.

As to CPK's problem with your blowing vapor—or more specifically, the staff of the Chicago remote location you visited—these people weren't likely San Francisco transplants with a conspiratorial aim of infesting Chicago with California culture of urban legend.

They were minimum-wage pizza slingers, and Chicago natives. Our problem with discriminating vapor from smoke is not theirs. They're just trying to get through the night without following yet another thoroughly corrupt Chicago mayor to the Big House.

New York was the second state (after California) to ban smoking in all indoor public places in 2003. I remember going to NYC in 2004 and the restaurants being 100% smoke-free. I agree with you. They are also very progressive.