FDA Why some folks didn't comment, apparently

[midficollege]

"I use FDA-verboten products regularly anyway, why should I care if they add one more to the list". (paraphrased)

No concern for us law-abiding citizens, just "can I get my nice juice at 2AM in a dark alley".

Exactly the same thing as gun control. No criminal will ever care about ATF infringements on the rights of the public.

This is part of an argument I used in an email sent to the administrators of The Truth about Guns and The Truth About Knives to see if they would consider adding a site about ecigs to their content network.

But anyway, suffice it to say that I was horrified by this person's attitude on the subject. The trouble is... When pressed, I couldn't come up with any good argument about why this person should, in fact, give a damn.

 

[dragonpuff]

"I use FDA-verboten products regularly anyway, why should I care if they add one more to the list". (paraphrased)

No concern for us law-abiding citizens, just "can I get my nice juice at 2AM in a dark alley".

Exactly the same thing as gun control. No criminal will ever care about ATF infringements on the rights of the public.

This is part of an argument I used in an email sent to the administrators of The Truth about Guns and The Truth About Knives to see if they would consider adding a site about ecigs to their content network.

But anyway, suffice it to say that I was horrified by this person's attitude on the subject. The trouble is... When pressed, I couldn't come up with any good argument about why this person should, in fact, give a damn.

Maybe tell him the products will gradually become more dangerous since they will not be subject to public scrutiny as they are now? Exploding batteries and poisonous juices... idk what else offhand, that one is a tough nut to crack

 

[iamthevoice]

It's the sad truth that some people will not make an effort, any effort not show any type of concern beyond the very immediate. As a species, we've been burdened with people like that since time began and will continue to feel the effect of their apathy. I live in Canada and and I took a few moments to make a comment, because I could! What trouble was it? Very little!

 

[KaraDC]

Getting people to do anything for an issue is like pulling teeth. Writing letters, making phone calls, whatever. The people that care about an issue outnumber the people that will actually do anything about it.

That being said, I did not respond either. It was not out of laziness, not caring, or not being informed though. It is because I play chess and also know how to think like political opponents. As someone who was never a smoker (I vape to cut down on snacking and because building mechanical mods intrigues me) anything I wrote from my own POV could be used by someone trying to make a case against vaping (for example, the fact that my amount of smoking did not change ... not mentioning it was from 0 to 0). Since anything I would have wrote that was more general would have been covered by someone else (the FDA looks at individual points, not how many people said it) I would not have added to the discussion.

 

[dragonpuff]

Thank you, iamthevoice, for your 5 minute sacrifice it is much appreciated.

Getting people to do anything for an issue is like pulling teeth. Writing letters, making phone calls, whatever. The people that care about an issue outnumber the people that will actually do anything about it.

That being said, I did not respond either. It was not out of laziness, not caring, or not being informed though. It is because I play chess and also know how to think like political opponents. As someone who was never a smoker (I vape to cut down on snacking and because building mechanical mods intrigues me) anything I wrote from my own POV could be used by someone trying to make a case against vaping (for example, the fact that my amount of smoking did not change ... not mentioning it was from 0 to 0). Since anything I would have wrote that was more general would have been covered by someone else (the FDA looks at individual points, not how many people said it) I would not have added to the discussion.

I disagree, I believe you could've contributed much to the discussion despite not being an ex-smoker you could've commented on the flavor bans, talked about you friends (like us ) who've quit smoking using e-cigs, sent scientific studies on e-cig safety, etc. Also, just because someone else may have mentioned it doesn't mean your comment wouldn't hold value - you would be putting it in your own words, and your particular way of saying it may have sway.

I realize that all of this is moot now, but there will be a next time...

Besides that, I agree with your first statement, not enough people do anything. Some of them are lazy, some of them don't think it'll make a difference. What they never seem to realize is that if enough people stand up at one time, it probably will make a difference.

 

[Kent C]

Then again, the guy could have a very good grasp of reality in that he knows no effort on his part will change anything in government - especially with this particular agency.

He may have known that 'asking for comments' was a mere formality that the FDA grudgingly has to do according to law, but have already made their minds up on what they're going to do. The 'comments' could be just like some News stations asking for viewers to email, tweet in their opinions, giving the impression to some that their opinions really matter, but then the news station either never uses them on air OR only use those that support their view and only post poorly worded ignorant opposing views which would bring ridicule.

Perhaps the 'immediate' is more important than doing something that he feels would be a waste of time. And that 'mind your own business' isn't the worst trait someone can have. Since those who are 'really concerned' end up in government jobs passing policies and laws that reflect their 'caring' and 'knowing what is good for 'the masses''. I don't condemn a guy like that, I admire him.

 

[Newportlocal]

Public apathy is the reason for most loss of rights. Frogs in boiling water. During my lifetime I have watched freedom slowly eroded by this.

 

[skoony]

its not so much that its apathy,it more like a general unawareness about so many things going on around us. this fairly new information overload environment in which we live makes it more and more impossible to be informed on each and every pressing matter that might affect our lives. look at the post count and readers viewing the general vaping thread and compare that to this forum. apparently there is a disconnect some where. there is so much going on that people have compartmentalised their intake of information to what matters to them most. i do not believe the amount of people i know who's knowledge of the world around them consists of sound bites they have heard from second,third or forth hand sources whom in all probability got it from another forth hand source. the government and special interests know this. thats why every conceivable tax,regulation,law and policy is so easily run through with out regards to anyone. they know your average 2 adult 2 child family is to busy working at trying to raise a family and keep their heads above water they have no time for much else. they hear this good for you,this is bad for you,this is for the children,this is bad for children and or your pets and the environment is all that filters through. the one bright spot is the ones here that are fighting the good fight. you are the ones that make the difference. they know for every one of you there are 10's maybe hundreds more they are not hearing from. the government knows that after all the hearings,meetings,debates,public postings on ad infinitum that it takes to get a law passed that only .02 % of the population ever take part in the process. its usually the same .02%. so take heart its not as bad as one might think. not saying its real good either.

regards
mike

 

[classwife]

I kind of look at it like buying a lottery ticket...if you don't buy a ticket, you have 0 chances of winning.

 

[Kent C]

its not so much that its apathy,it more like a general unawareness about so many things going on around us. this fairly new information overload environment in which we live makes it more and more impossible to be informed on each and every pressing matter that might affect our lives. look at the post count and readers viewing the general vaping thread and compare that to this forum. apparently there is a disconnect some where. there is so much going on that people have compartmentalised their intake of information to what matters to them most. i do not believe the amount of people i know who's knowledge of the world around them consists of sound bites they have heard from second,third or forth hand sources whom in all probability got it from another forth hand source. the government and special interests know this. thats why every conceivable tax,regulation,law and policy is so easily run through with out regards to anyone. they know your average 2 adult 2 child family is to busy working at trying to raise a family and keep their heads above water they have no time for much else. they hear this good for you,this is bad for you,this is for the children,this is bad for children and or your pets and the environment is all that filters through. the one bright spot is the ones here that are fighting the good fight. you are the ones that make the difference. they know for every one of you there are 10's maybe hundreds more they are not hearing from. the government knows that after all the hearings,meetings,debates,public postings on ad infinitum that it takes to get a law passed that only .02 % of the population ever take part in the process. its usually the same .02%. so take heart its not as bad as one might think. not saying its real good either.

regards
mike

In order for all of that to happen, you have to dumb down and destroy curiosity and reason. The weapon used was public education. But first you had to put the "Generals' in Congress...... for decades.

 

[DC2]

Public apathy is the reason for most loss of rights. Frogs in boiling water. During my lifetime I have watched freedom slowly eroded by this.

We're all frogs in boiling water.
It's nothing new.

The thing many people don't seem to realize is that WE control the heat by our actions.

If no ones shows they care about being boiled, the heat is turned up.
If people start to rebel, the heat is turned down.

Usually, though, it seems to take a revolution to turn the heat off completely.

 

[DrMA]

We're all frogs in boiling water.
It's nothing new.

The thing many people don't seem to realize is that WE control the heat by our actions.

If no ones shows they care about being boiled, the heat is turned up.
If people start to rebel, the heat is turned down.

Usually, though, it seems to take a revolution to turn the heat off completely.

Only sometimes revolution may throw you into an even hotter pot, with a heat control knob that's either stuck, may be absent, or much more difficult to control.

 

[Kent C]

We're all frogs in boiling water.
It's nothing new.

The thing many people don't seem to realize is that WE control the heat by our actions.

If no ones shows they care about being boiled, the heat is turned up.
If people start to rebel, the heat is turned down.

Usually, though, it seems to take a revolution to turn the heat off completely.

re: bold... not so sure that is universal. Sometimes in history, the rebellion turned up the heat. Much depends on how much control the government had over the heat in the first place. Without going into specific histories - When it was little, then the rebellion would turn down the heat. When it was already hot, it got hotter.

 

[Kent C]

Only sometimes revolution may throw you into an even hotter pot, with a heat control knob that's either stuck, may be absent, or much more difficult to control.

Again, depends on the circumstance. People's tolerance of loss of liberty varies greatly. As in the Declaration:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

The turning point was the concept "design" (which in this case shows a mal-intent, not just ignorant errors of judgment) - the one thing that 'sells' the idea:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

And while it is common to say that revolution might end up worse, many times that 'worse' is just around the corner anyway - given the 'long train of abuses and usurpations'. One could easily make the case right now - perhaps even more so than at the time of the Revolution. And going to what I said to DC2, the water is already hot, where it was just 'tepid' (by comparison) at the time of the Revolution.

 

[Nana Gail]

" There comes a night when all good men must stand and fight" We must pick our Fights wisely and stay the coarse no matter the outcome. Keep on Vaping on