Wick materials. Safe vs dangerous.

[jcarabelos]

So I can't help but notice this thread has gone WAYYY off topic. I read about 30 pages worth and about 9 pages in the topic was practically lost. That being said, after reading up on silica and cotton I can't help but feel that none of these are truly safe wicks. Silica seems dangerous at best, and if we are inhaling even a small amount of silica shards from vaping then it's a damn crime that Silica is being used so ubiquitously. Ultimately I feel like SS is the best/safest material because it gives little to no chance of particles being inhaled. I can't help but feel that these subjects need more attention, and the information needs to be tested and proliferated. If x years down the road we have vapers suffering from silicosis, or any other disease from inhaling non-organic particles, then the already frail image of this industry will be shattered. It's the last thing we need in this community, so better awareness of the issue is crucial IMO.

 

[chet]

New to this thread and I too gave up reading after about 20 pages or so.
What's the verdic about this silica particle issue? I'm sure there's been much more discussions over the 350+ pages but could someone summerize the potential danger in reality about this issue? Do you people think it's a big enough danger that I should avoid all those atty product and start DIY with other materials?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Anyone hungry? There's a frakkin barbeque in this atty, gonna make some persian kebabs lol

References:

BJ43. Novel coil shapes and the investigation of odd tastes:Blonde, brunette and redhead. Journal of Aerodynamics, PTs and Fluid Dynamics, 2013. 86:675-681.

Quigsworth. Sentetikz and alernatives to silica. Annals of the Canadian Society of Wicking Materials, 2013. 123:432-440.

 

[TomCatt]

So I can't help but notice this thread has gone WAYYY off topic. I read about 30 pages worth and about 9 pages in the topic was practically lost. That being said, after reading up on silica and cotton I can't help but feel that none of these are truly safe wicks. Silica seems dangerous at best, and if we are inhaling even a small amount of silica shards from vaping then it's a damn crime that Silica is being used so ubiquitously. Ultimately I feel like SS is the best/safest material because it gives little to no chance of particles being inhaled. I can't help but feel that these subjects need more attention, and the information needs to be tested and proliferated. If x years down the road we have vapers suffering from silicosis, or any other disease from inhaling non-organic particles, then the already frail image of this industry will be shattered. It's the last thing we need in this community, so better awareness of the issue is crucial IMO.

New to this thread and I too gave up reading after about 20 pages or so.
What's the verdic about this silica particle issue? I'm sure there's been much more discussions over the 350+ pages but could someone summerize the potential danger in reality about this issue? Do you people think it's a big enough danger that I should avoid all those atty product and start DIY with other materials?

Sorry guys .
There really hasn't been any (or much) solid discussion or learnings on the actual danger of using silica as a PV wick. Basically we've been discussing alternatives to silica and how they are being used.
Personally I've switched to cotton mainly for the better wicking for top-coil atomizers over silica.

Check out the Cotton Wick Wiki (link in my signature) for a general listing of alternate wicking materials.

And stop by any time .

 

[Cyrus Vap]

welcome J and chet

Unfortunately there is no verdict and there is no new information. As you point out this would require research and time.

I agree that silica is dangerous at best. And it's probably true that stainless steel mesh is the absolute safest material one can probably use, as BJ pointed out a long time ago on these forums. And I do think the best thing to do is avoid silica, just my opinion. Why use a known toxin in hopes that its not small enough/liberated in abundant quantities to kill you? Get rid of it.

Cotton probably falls somewhere in between and closer to the safe side, in my opinion, but that's just an educated guess, nothing more. Cotton inhalation can cause problems, as is well known.

The good news is, either way, the quantity of silica/cotton dust that actually make it into the lungs is likely orders of magnitude smaller than what industrial exposure yields.

The bad news is, so what? We don't really know if there is a linear, dose dependent relationship like that.

I do think flavors are also going to turn out to be a problem

If you want to be as safe as possible, swedish snus is still the best thing out there

EDIT: After typing this I'm wanting to change all my wicks out for mesh and throw out my flavors lol.

 

[TomCatt]

(I might be tempted to switch over to SS mesh, if I could ever get a wick/coil w/o any #@@!$%%#ing shorts )

 

[Cool_Breeze]

(I might be tempted to switch over to SS mesh, if I could ever get a wick/coil w/o any #@@!$%%#ing shorts )

I think lower resistance wire will help in avoiding shorts via lower voltage.

 

[Quigsworth]

This is nothing new but in reading this and having just given my ZAG (solid 500 with a 1.5 of 28) a full breakdown and clean in Costco's Kirkland Vodka (pretty good vodka btw)...as usual there was black particulate in the bottom of the container (plus I give the cap a rinse every couple days, same thing)...is it carbon (soot)?, is it burnt sugars?, is it spall off the coil? the mesh?...I've never run a sample through a dual chamber gas chromatograph ...all fanboy rhetoric aside, I just choose to assume that whatever it is is way safer than whatever is coming out of analogues....point is, I also rinse my Ody, ERA's and A7's running Lydia's and don't seem to get the black juice goo like I do with mesh...now I get that a mesh/coil is a much more a rigid structure and more prone to ejecting "stuff" as a result of the micro explosions than the pliable organic wick/coil however...

Thing is, if I was completely new to vaping and was given my Ody and my ZAG to clean after a week of heavy use, then have them put in front of me all built and ready to vape, which one would I choose to vape on?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

yeah as I've said before that crud scares the crap out of me to be honest lol, maybe I need to recant the above

 

[Quigsworth]

yeah as I've said before that crud scares the crap out of me to be honest lol, maybe I need to recant the above

Nice A7 builds btw Cy...what do you have stuffed into the well on the side coil build? is that baton?...that just gave me a solution to the "go ahead and lay it on it's side if you want" issue...

 

[Cyrus Vap]

That's just aunt lydia's illustrious pony tail my man

EDIT: I was trying to follow YOUR directions Except 20 strands was a bit much, I think I ended up with 15 or so

 

[Quigsworth]

Here's the thing with the 20...I just wind 10 wraps around 2 fingers, pull off the coil, loop a piece of whatever kanthal happens to be within arms reach to pull it through the BJ oval (orient the Lydia's so the 2 bundles of 10 are stacked)...goes in my 28 coil like a thumb in a bum...I do roughly the same with the ERA's but I wrap my Lydia's around an old smok mega carto tube...perfect length when you tie the loop ends together on the back side of the posts...

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Here's the thing with the 20...I just wind 10 wraps around 2 fingers, pull off the coil, loop a piece of whatever kanthal happens to be within arms reach to pull it through the BJ oval (orient the Lydia's so the 2 bundles of 10 are stacked)...goes in my 28 coil like a thumb in a bum...I do roughly the same with the ERA's but I wrap my Lydia's around an old smok mega carto tube...perfect length when you tie the loop ends together on the back side of the posts...

Yeah I dig it, I pretty much do the same as for as loops and fingers, but I've never tied the loops together on the back side, I'll try it next time. On the ERA I just clip one side flush minus two strands tucked under the coil, and wrap the other side around

I'm still yanking threads out of the BJ Oval, I think I'm down to 14 now, getting to many random "ksssssssstttttttt" sounds

I ditched a few wraps from the original pic, I'm down to ten for 2.2 ohms. I really like it, but it seems like I'm needing a little more voltage/time than usual (30awg) to get it going, I guess that comes with more metal to heat...

 

[BJ43]

@ Doc Vap
EDIT: After typing this I'm wanting to change all my wicks out for mesh and throw out my flavors lol.

VG with menthol crystals dissolved in vodka is my normal vape. Hell that can't be so bad. Almost like a medical vaporizer for congestion. The menthol give a cool fake TH. Hell the menthol gives a TH without even hitting the switch. Gave up sucking on mints and always have a fresh taste in my mouth. Girlfriends appreciate this for a variety of reasons.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I agree with you 100% BJ, I'm not worried about menthol at all. In fact I consider my unflavored batches, and my menthol batches to be...unflavored lol. Menthol has a pretty decent track record.

Its all that other stuff

Gave up sucking on mints and always have a fresh taste in my mouth. Girlfriends appreciate this for a variety of reasons.

LMFAO you totally just went there

 

[jcarabelos]

Well like I said - it's a damn shame that MOST vapers out there are using silica, because it's so common in the crapomizers that are sold everywhere. I'll be making a switch to SS mesh now that this has all been fleshed out for me. Even if I am inhaling only a little bit, that's still more than I want. And because silicosis takes 5-15 years to develop -- well that's just as scary as cancer from analogues to me. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the medical world discovers.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Well like I said - it's a damn shame that MOST vapers out there are using silica, because it's so common in the crapomizers that are sold everywhere. I'll be making a switch to SS mesh now that this has all been fleshed out for me. Even if I am inhaling only a little bit, that's still more than I want. And because silicosis takes 5-15 years to develop -- well that's just as scary as cancer from analogues to me. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the medical world discovers.

I'm glad you mention this, because some mistakenly take comfort in the fact that no vapers have had issues yet. Many, in fact most, lung pathologies show up many, many years after the physiologic insult has already set the wheels in motion.

 

[jcarabelos]

Exactly. Something worth spreading the info over.

 

[TomCatt]

I found a logo for BJ (might wanna check on copyrights ):

 

[damthisisfun]

@ Doc Vap
EDIT: After typing this I'm wanting to change all my wicks out for mesh and throw out my flavors lol.

VG with menthol crystals dissolved in vodka is my normal vape. Hell that can't be so bad. Almost like a medical vaporizer for congestion. The menthol give a cool fake TH. Hell the menthol gives a TH without even hitting the switch. Gave up sucking on mints and always have a fresh taste in my mouth. Girlfriends appreciate this for a variety of reasons.

muhahahahahahaahah - took me a second but I got it - wonders if I should start vaping menthol and will that make the wife happy - naaahh - nothing gonna make her happy - lol