Wick materials. Safe vs dangerous.

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Cool_Breeze

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Cotton can burn though I haven't experienced that yet but I'm sure I will, Can't be as bad as inhaling silica strands or burning tobacco leaves and bleached paper though.

Another way of looking at the notion of burning cotton is that I 'char' cotton enough that if I pull on the ends of the wick at about the 3 day point, I can pull the wick apart at the coil. That's a miniscule amount of burning compared to just the amount of fully combusted material in just one cigarette.

I see a lot of comments on bleach. Is bleach really all that bad? I suppose there are many kinds of bleaches. Household-type bleach would be, I suspect of little consequence in minute quantities.
 

ratpack7

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Another way of looking at the notion of burning cotton is that I 'char' cotton enough that if I pull on the ends of the wick at about the 3 day point, I can pull the wick apart at the coil. That's a miniscule amount of burning compared to just the amount of fully combusted material in just one cigarette.

hmm... sounds like your coil is to tight. I have wicks go 2 weeks or more, and only when the coil gets gunked up I replace them. the wick is dark but it does not pull apart.
 

Bourbonman

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It has been my personal experience that my cotton wicks only char and become weak enough to pull apart in two situations.
1) I vape my tank dry
2) My coil was too tight

I have not had #2 happen at all since I started winding my coil on a screw or nail, and then pulling the wick through. A piece of Kanthal (I usually use the old coil) makes a great "needle" to pull the coil through.
 

Charlie369

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Another way of looking at the notion of burning cotton is that I 'char' cotton enough that if I pull on the ends of the wick at about the 3 day point, I can pull the wick apart at the coil. That's a miniscule amount of burning compared to just the amount of fully combusted material in just one cigarette.

I see a lot of comments on bleach. Is bleach really all that bad? I suppose there are many kinds of bleaches. Household-type bleach would be, I suspect of little consequence in minute quantities.

Yes thinks that are bleached (with Chlorine based chemicals) that are then burnt can release dioxins, dioxins are really nasty:

Dioxins and furans are some of the most toxic chemicals known to science. A draft report released for public comment in September 1994 by the US Environmental Protection Agency clearly describes dioxin as a serious public health threat. The public health impact of dioxin may rival the impact that DDT had on public health in the 1960's. According to the EPA report, not only does there appear to be no "safe" level of exposure to dioxin, but levels of dioxin and dioxin-like chemicals have been found in the general US population that are "at or near levels associated with adverse health effects."

Dioxin is a general term that describes a group of hundreds of chemicals that are highly persistent in the environment. The most toxic compound is 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin or TCDD. The toxicity of other dioxins and chemicals like PCBs that act like dioxin are measured in relation to TCDD. Dioxin is formed as an unintentional by-product of many industrial processes involving chlorine such as waste incineration, chemical and pesticide manufacturing and pulp and paper bleaching. Dioxin was the primary toxic component of Agent Orange, was found at Love Canal in Niagara Falls, NY and was the basis for evacuations at Times Beach, MO and Seveso, Italy.

Dioxin is formed by burning chlorine-based chemical compounds with hydrocarbons. The major source of dioxin in the environment comes from waste-burning incinerators of various sorts and also from backyard burn-barrels. Dioxin pollution is also affiliated with paper mills which use chlorine bleaching in their process and with the production of Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) plastics and with the production of certain chlorinated chemicals (like many pesticides).

Does dioxin cause cancer?

Yes. The EPA report confirmed that dioxin is a cancer hazard to people. In 1997, the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) -- part of the World Health Organization -- published their research into dioxins and furans and announced on February 14, 1997, that the most potent dioxin, 2,3,7,8-TCDD, is a now considered a Group 1 carcinogen, meaning that it's a known human carcinogen.

Also, in January 2001, the U.S. National Toxicology Program upgraded 2,3,7,8-TCDD from "Reasonably Anticipated to be a Human Carcinogen" to "Known to be a Human Carcinogen." See their reports on dioxins and furans from their 11th Report on Carcinogens (find related documents under 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD) and Furan). Finally, a 2003 re-analysis of the cancer risk from dioxin reaffirmed that there is no known "safe dose" or "threshold" below which dioxin will not cause cancer.

A July 2002 study shows dioxin to be related to increased incidence of breast cancer.


What other health problems are linked to dioxin exposure?

In addition to cancer, exposure to dioxin can also cause severe reproductive and developmental problems (at levels 100 times lower than those associated with its cancer causing effects). Dioxin is well-known for its ability to damage the immune system and interfere with hormonal systems.

Dioxin exposure has been linked to birth defects, inability to maintain pregnancy, decreased fertility, reduced sperm counts, endometriosis, diabetes, learning disabilities, immune system suppression, lung problems, skin disorders, lowered testosterone levels and much more. For an detailed list of health problems related to dioxin, read the People's Report on Dioxin.

How are we exposed to dioxin?

The major sources of dioxin are in our diet. Since dioxin is fat-soluble, it bioaccumulates, climbing up the food chain. A North American eating a typical North American diet will receive 93% of their dioxin exposure from meat and dairy products (23% is from milk and dairy alone; the other large sources of exposure are beef, fish, pork, poultry and eggs). In fish, these toxins bioaccumulate up the food chain so that dioxin levels in fish are 100,000 times that of the surrounding environment. The best way to avoid dioxin exposure is to reduce or eliminate your consumption of meat and dairy products by adopting a vegan diet. According to a May 2001 study of dioxin in foods, "The category with the lowest [dioxin] level was a simulated vegan diet, with 0.09 ppt.... Blood dioxin levels in pure vegans have also been found to be very low in comparison with the general population, indicating a lower contribution of these foods to human dioxin body burden."
In EPA's dioxin report, they refer to dioxin as hydrophobic (water-fearing) and lipophilic (fat-loving). This means that dioxin, when it settles on water bodies, will rapidly accumulate in fish rather than remain in the water. The same goes for other wildlife. Dioxin works its way to the top of the food chain.

Men have no ways to get rid of dioxin other than letting it break down according to its chemical half-lives. Women, on the other hand, have two ways which it can exit their bodies:

It crosses the placenta... into the growing infant;
It is present in the fatty breast milk, which is also a route of exposure which doses the infant, making breast-feeding for non-vegan/vegetarian mothers quite hazardous.

Source: Dioxins & Furans: The Most Toxic Chemicals Known to Science
 
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TomCatt

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Yes bleached things that are burnt can release dioxins, dioxins are really nasty:

...

The rest of your post, Charlie, is interesting information; but, your first sentence may be misleading. It's chlorine-based compounds that may form dioxins; not "bleached things". Items may be bleached with chlorine-based compounds; but these compounds are (commonly) rinsed from said items.
 

Charlie369

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The rest of your post, Charlie, is interesting information; but, your first sentence may be misleading. It's chlorine-based compounds that may form dioxins; not "bleached things". Items may be bleached with chlorine-based compounds; but these compounds are (commonly) rinsed from said items.

Yes you are correct, I knew someone would pick me up on it, I'll edit it.

How well can you really 'rinse' something like cotton or paper fibers, I don't mean to scare monger or put people off, in fact I am currently using ordinary (most likely bleached) string as a wick right now and It's wicking great, I'm just providing information, Ciggarette papers are bleached, a few years ago I even emailed a big tobacco company asking if they used chlorine based bleaching agents in there paper manufacture process, I never did get a reply.

It's all about proportionality, I wouldnt like to use a wick thats been bleached with chlorine based compound in the long term, much like I disliked smoking bleached papers but so far after 12 years of smoking i'm still alive (touch wood).
 
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Ragaey

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Apologies for not reading the whole thread it has been going on for quite some time now I have been concerned about the silica safety issue now which I prefer more than geny attys it gives me a better flavor more dense and warmer vape especially on bakery flavor which I like, could you please advise what would be a safer alternative and where to get it I know people use cotton but I don’t know where to get it, thank.
 

Bourbonman

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Yeah, we try to be as safe as we can, but short of picking it off the plant and rolling it, I don't think we'll be able to be completely non-toxic. That said, I still think it's safer than silica :)

I agree. It really boils down to a matter of perspective. I boil all of my wick material, and DIY my juice. This is as safe as I care to go. I smoked Camels for close to thirty years, and there's no way that wasn't far, far worse for me. I don't think my harmful intake from a week's vaping equals the harmful intake from a single cigarette. I'm not counting nicotine as harmful. Decide how bad for you you want nicotine to be, and you can probably find a study to support your decision. As far as potential harm from a charred cotton wick or shed fibers, I breath in more harmful crap from auto exhaust on the way to and from work than I will ever inhale from little bits of string in an atomizer. When you compare the potential harm from cotton wicks to everything else you expose yourself to, it kind of fades into the background. So the question you should ask isn't "Is it safe?" because it probably isn't and probably never will be. You should ask "How unsafe is it compared to everything else?" and then ask "Do I really care?"

My answer to that question is "I smoked Camels 30 years, and this is keeping me off of them. I'm just not going to worry about it."

(Followed by "I wonder if Quigs has any new doily patterns?" and then by "Jeez, I gotta stop talking to myself.") :laugh:
 

JC Okie

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Apologies for not reading the whole thread it has been going on for quite some time now I have been concerned about the silica safety issue now which I prefer more than geny attys it gives me a better flavor more dense and warmer vape especially on bakery flavor which I like, could you please advise what would be a safer alternative and where to get it I know people use cotton but I don’t know where to get it, thank.

MyWikkaSite: Cotton Wick Wiki
This site may help you.
 

roadrash

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I have done some papermaking in my Grad School days, and still have some raw fibers (hemp, cotton linter, Abaca, Thai Kozo). I'm wondering if I boiled some of those fibers and then spun/twisted them into small threads how they would work for wicks...

Hmmm... Now y'all have got me thinking...

Thats the way to find out. trial and error. I remember my experimental days with different material. Cough, cough. Course it would be better if you got someone else to try it. lol
 

BrokenLung

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Does anyone sell a drop in/ready to use cotton wicked device. I'm just not ready to rewick my Vivi style heads right now. Seems a lot of people would pay good money for safer vaping alternatives. I really wish our vaping supplies came from a place that is not notorious for skirting guidelines and using generally nasty manufacturing practices :(

I feel I really need to make the switch to cotton asap.
 

oplholik

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Does anyone sell a drop in/ready to use cotton wicked device. I'm just not ready to rewick my Vivi style heads right now. Seems a lot of people would pay good money for safer vaping alternatives. I really wish our vaping supplies came from a place that is not notorious for skirting guidelines and using generally nasty manufacturing practices :(

I feel I really need to make the switch to cotton asap.

I have been hoping for this myself, but I think that there just aren't that many that's all that concerned about it.
 

BrokenLung

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I have been hoping for this myself, but I think that there just aren't that many that's all that concerned about it.

I think people just don't know. I've been watching videos on how to make SS wicks. So I'm going to get some 30 gauge kanthal and some 320 mesh SS and give it a go.

I think I might try to run cotton through an existing coil. In just know that after the holidays I'm not going to have time to fiddle with making SS wicks.
 
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