Will alcohol in flavoring break down VG over time??

[MickiO]

I have made VG mixed with amaretto flavoring, and it's very thick when I first mix it, and it seems to do something to where it thins or breaks the VG down over time,.


I mixed some VG with 20% Amaretto flavoring, it was VERY thick about 2 months ago, barely came out of the dropper, and now it seems thin almost like water! .


I have other flavorings I've use, same amount that I made at the same time, they're still thick. .the only ones I noticed were thin, are the ones that the flavoring contains alcohol.


I love them thick, because it gives thick vapor..


So I started only using 10% flavoring, to see if that helps, course then the flavor goes down


Is there any truth to this theory?.


Thanks

 

[MickiO]

I'm using the e-juice calculator, and when I make 5 or 10mL andput in the nic, the flavoring, VG, into the calculator, it comes out nice and thick, the way I want it.


So I use the same formula to make a bigger batch, and I put in 30mL, and it comes out thin???


I like 20% flavoring, which works great with 5 and 10mL bottles, nice and thick but for some reason, it comes out thin if I make larger amounts of it. I don't get it, why does it do this???


I get tired of making small bottle of my favorite liquid every time I turn around, that's why I wanted to make a bigger batch, lol

 

[Scubabatdan]

I'm using the e-juice calculator, and when I make 5 or 10mL andput in the nic, the flavoring, VG, into the calculator, it comes out nice and thick, the way I want it.


So I use the same formula to make a bigger batch, and I put in 30mL, and it comes out thin???


I like 20% flavoring, which works great with 5 and 10mL bottles, nice and thick but for some reason, it comes out thin if I make larger amounts of it. I don't get it, why does it do this???


I get tired of making small bottle of my favorite liquid every time I turn around, that's why I wanted to make a bigger batch, lol

Only thing I can think of is the drops that = 1ml, for smaller batches it is not as important. But for bigger batches it is. Make sure you do a drop test to see haow many drops = 1ml. Then put that number in the calculator and try a larger batch. Could be you are adding to much water or flavoring and not enough VG.
Dan

 

[MickiO]

>Thanks for the help Dan, that's a good idea! I'll try that!


>Actually, I don't add any water, but I did discover my flavorings have enough water already so it works good, without adding extra water, so I still get thick vapor. I .use FeariesFinest Flavoring, VG unflavored nic, and VG. .I tried adding water to my mixes in the past, and even at only 4% water took away that great vapor I was getting. These flavorings are very thin and work really well with VG/VG nic mix..........I'll try a drip test......




ok, I just filled up a syringe of 1mL flavoring, and put into a cup, then I took my eyedropper and counted the drops to see how much flavoring makes 1mL. .I counted 50 drops!!!8-o


But if I put 50 drops=mL, won't that affect the VG amount? I'm confused I guess, lol.
( I just counted the drops in 1mL of VG, and it's right as 20 drops).



Thanks for the help





. [/QUOTE]




EDIT: ok I guess I so totally don't understand, because by putting 50=1mL, the calculator still shows it would be 6mL of flavoring for 20%, at 300 drops!8-o Which is 2/1/2 times more flavoring .

I don't mean to sound dense, but don't I want to add 'less" flavoring to make it thicker?

UPDATE: I think I figured out something, if it's 2 1/2 times more drops per mL, then I could make it 2 1/2 times less, so if I divide 20 drops by 2.5, that's 8 drops per mL. So for adding 20% flavoring, with 1mL=8 drops, that would be 48 drops or 2.4mL. Which would be 2 1/2 times less than 6mL or 120 drops divided by 2 1/2, (based on the 20 per mL I was using before).

And I noticed the nic level stays the same, it is only the VG that is increased, which is the actually the amount of flavoring difference in drops, added to the VG. cool.

Thanks, your e-juice calculator helps alot, alls I have to do now, if I want a bigger batch, is put in 8% on the flavoring if I wanted less flavor, to make up for the drops per mL difference between my VG and my thin flavoring. I tried this and it tastes and vapes great now, thanks!

 

[Kattdaddy]

>Thanks for the help Dan, that's a good idea! I'll try that!


>Actually, I don't add any water, but I did discover my flavorings have enough water already so it works good, without adding extra water, so I still get thick vapor. I .use FeariesFinest Flavoring, VG unflavored nic, and VG. .I tried adding water to my mixes in the past, and even at only 4% water took away that great vapor I was getting. These flavorings are very thin and work really well with VG/VG nic mix..........I'll try a drip test......






ok, I just filled up a syringe of 1mL flavoring, and put into a cup, then I took my eyedropper and counted the drops to see how much flavoring makes 1mL. .I counted 50 drops!!!8-o


But if I put 50 drops=mL, won't that affect the VG amount? I'm confused I guess, lol.
( I just counted the drops in 1mL of VG, and it's right as 20 drops).



Thanks for the help





.

EDIT: ok I guess I so totally don't understand, because by putting 50=1mL, the calculator still shows it would be 6mL of flavoring for 20%, at 300 drops!8-o Which is 2/1/2 times more flavoring .

I don't mean to sound dense, but don't I want to add 'less" flavoring to make it thicker?

All you have to do is maintain the actual volume of a ml. If the recipe is for 6 ml... and by putting 50 drops per ml in the calc-- the recipe is still calling for 6 ml but recording now that it takes 300 drops from your dropper to equal 6 ml because you told it so. Apparently, you now know that when you put vg in , It only takes 20 drops but when you are going by drops with your flavoring... apparenly it takes 50. This is probably because of the opening of your dropper and the difference in density between your fluids.
The characteristics of the VG will be broken down by an alcohol... which is why most of the time you will want to pre-emulsify your VG with only a couple of drops of alcohol per ml of vg you plan to add to your mix, shake that together real good, set it aside for ten minutes to allow the vg to fully emulsify, and then add it in to your mix. I generally add a little extra flavoring in to my mixes when using vg to counteract the overpowering affects on the taste by the VG. The juice will breakdfown a little over time so you will have to subsidize... I keep a 3 ml bottle a 6mg vg unflavored mix for that purpose..... usually 1 ml added plus a little flavor touch up will keep the juice going good for me. Hope this helps!!!

 

[MickiO]

[/COLOR]

All you have to do is maintain the actual volume of a ml. If the recipe is for 6 ml... and by putting 50 drops per ml in the calc-- the recipe is still calling for 6 ml but recording now that it takes 300 drops from your dropper to equal 6 ml because you told it so. Apparently, you now know that when you put vg in , It only takes 20 drops but when you are going by drops with your flavoring... apparenly it takes 50. This is probably because of the opening of your dropper and the difference in density between your fluids.
The characteristics of the VG will be broken down by an alcohol... which is why most of the time you will want to pre-emulsify your VG with only a couple of drops of alcohol per ml of vg you plan to add to your mix, shake that together real good, set it aside for ten minutes to allow the vg to fully emulsify, and then add it in to your mix. I generally add a little extra flavoring in to my mixes when using vg to counteract the overpowering affects on the taste by the VG. The juice will breakdfown a little over time so you will have to subsidize... I keep a 3 ml bottle a 6mg vg unflavored mix for that purpose..... usually 1 ml added plus a little flavor touch up will keep the juice going good for me. Hope this helps!!!

Thanks KD, actually, the alcohol is already in my Amaretto flavoring, so do you mean I ought to add my flavoring to my VG and let it emulsify before adding my unflavored VG nicotine?.



That's good to know, I'll just add some more VG to those older mixes, that have gotten thin. .I'm gonna try one of my other flavorings that doesn't contain alcohol and see if it stays thick over time,


I'd like to have a bigger bottle made, so I can use it to fill up my smaller ones with, so I don't have to keep mixing liquids so often, there's 2 vaporer's in the house, lol, but if they're only going to get thin over time, maybe 30mL is too much to make at one time, I dunno.....

 

[Scubabatdan]

[/COLOR]

All you have to do is maintain the actual volume of a ml. If the recipe is for 6 ml... and by putting 50 drops per ml in the calc-- the recipe is still calling for 6 ml but recording now that it takes 300 drops from your dropper to equal 6 ml because you told it so. Apparently, you now know that when you put vg in , It only takes 20 drops but when you are going by drops with your flavoring... apparenly it takes 50. This is probably because of the opening of your dropper and the difference in density between your fluids.
The characteristics of the VG will be broken down by an alcohol... which is why most of the time you will want to pre-emulsify your VG with only a couple of drops of alcohol per ml of vg you plan to add to your mix, shake that together real good, set it aside for ten minutes to allow the vg to fully emulsify, and then add it in to your mix. I generally add a little extra flavoring in to my mixes when using vg to counteract the overpowering affects on the taste by the VG. The juice will breakdfown a little over time so you will have to subsidize... I keep a 3 ml bottle a 6mg vg unflavored mix for that purpose..... usually 1 ml added plus a little flavor touch up will keep the juice going good for me. Hope this helps!!!

Correct, but the drop count is to establish how many drops to use with small batches. Like 10ml at a 33 drop/ml your at 15% for 50 drops of flavor. But at 50 drops/ml 15% is 75 drops total. If the taste and thickness was perfect at 40 drops, then you actually only using 8% flavoring. And you use that % for you larger batches. That is why the drops count of is important. It helps to maintain consistancy. For flavoring I always count the drops and adjust the % to equal that number of drops. That is why some of my recipes say 10% and some say 7%. And that is why you are actually putting 2.5 times more flavoring in in larger batches that smaller ones. Adjust the % to equal the number of drops you actually use in the smaller batches, this will reduce the amount of ml's you use in flavoring to match the smaller batch.
I typically ony count the drops of the flavoring, the rest I use the ml numbers.
That help any?
Dan

 

[MickiO]

Correct, but the drop count is to establish how many drops to use with small batches. Like 10ml at a 33 drop/ml your at 15% for 50 drops of flavor. But at 50 drops/ml 15% is 75 drops total. If the taste and thickness was perfect at 40 drops, then you actually only using 8% flavoring. And you use that % for you larger batches. That is why the drops count of is important. It helps to maintain consistancy. For flavoring I always count the drops and adjust the % to equal that number of drops. That is why some of my recipes say 10% and some say 7%. And that is why you are actually putting 2.5 times more flavoring in in larger batches that smaller ones. Adjust the % to equal the number of drops you actually use in the smaller batches, this will reduce the amount of ml's you use in flavoring to match the smaller batch.
I typically ony count the drops of the flavoring, the rest I use the ml numbers.
That help any?
Dan

Ok If I'm understanding you correctly Dan, then, I use the number of drops under flavoring(s) that I know tastes/vapes well in my small batch, .like 40 drops for example, and write that number down.



And then I count out the number of drops in my flavoring, that it takes to equal 1 mL, and then put THAT number in the drops per mL slot, Then I adjust and decrease the % number in the flavor slot, so that the number of flavoring(s) drops equals the same number I first wrote down, (or equals the number of flavoring drops that I know tasted and vaped well.)


.Then I'll know what % of flavor I need to use when making a bigger batch, such as 30mL.


Correct?
..

 

[Scubabatdan]

Ok If I'm understanding you correctly Dan, then, I use the number of drops under flavoring(s) that I know tastes/vapes well in my small batch, .like 40 drops for example, and write that number down.



And then I count out the number of drops in my flavoring, that it takes to equal 1 mL, and then put THAT number in the drops per mL slot, Then I adjust and decrease the % number in the flavor slot, so that the number of flavoring(s) drops equals the same number I first wrote down, (or equals the number of flavoring drops that I know tasted and vaped well.)


.Then I'll know what % of flavor I need to use when making a bigger batch, such as 30mL.


Correct?
..

Correctamundo....

If, when you where making your test batch you used 30 drops of flavoring, you would put 40 drops = 1ml in the field, and then adjust your flavoring % until the drops you used equals the drops in section 2, then that is your flavoring % for larger batches. Now you can use the ml field for say 1000ml and it is the same thickness and flavoring as 10ml.
Dan

 

[MickiO]

Please forgive my persistence here, but so that others can also understand, as well as myself, in order to make a bigger batch so that it tastes and vapes the same as a smaller batch.

One can follow these steps listed below, correct?



1. Find out what number of flavoring drops vapes/tastes well in your small mix, at 20 per mL, by using your e-juice calculator, (In Section 1) Re-enter the size of your small bottle of your DIY mix, that you know tastes/vapes well, such as 5mL or 10mL, enter the nic amount and the VG amount, and the flavor % amount that you used, based on the recipe of a known good mix. Take the number of drops in the flavoring(s) slot (shown in Section 2), and write this number down.



2. Do a drip test with your flavoring, and count out how many drops equal 1 mL. This number will be used for number of drops per mL,



3. Take this number and enter this as your new drops per mL amount, in the slot next to where it saysnumber of user drops = mL)



4. Next, in the flavor % number slot, (Section 1), adjust and lower this number, until the flavoring(s) % number in (Section 2), equals the number you wrote down.



This will tell you what flavoring the percent number, to use in your e-juice calculator, to make bigger batches, so that the bigger batch mix tastes and vapes the same as the smaller mix.

{NOTE: this formula is only to determine the amount of flavoring needed to make bigger batches, so you'll know how many drops of flavoring to use to make a great batch. However, you only need to consider the drops amounts for flavoring only. When using this formula, only use milliliters. calculated for you, in the mixing chart (Section 2), for the nic amount, VG/PG amounts, , NOT the amt in drops! this is only to calculate the amount of flavoring needed. }

 

[Kattdaddy]

Thanks KD, actually, the alcohol is already in my Amaretto flavoring, so do you mean I ought to add my flavoring to my VG and let it emulsify before adding my unflavored VG nicotine?.



That's good to know, I'll just add some more VG to those older mixes, that have gotten thin. .I'm gonna try one of my other flavorings that doesn't contain alcohol and see if it stays thick over time,


I'd like to have a bigger bottle made, so I can use it to fill up my smaller ones with, so I don't have to keep mixing liquids so often, there's 2 vaporer's in the house, lol, but if they're only going to get thin over time, maybe 30mL is too much to make at one time, I dunno.....

Yes, concerning the alcohol content of any flavoring when using VG. I have not experienced this much with PG but lets take your Amaretto... Now, I use an Amaretto flavoring and I also have the real thing to use in custom mixes. What I generally do is make 30 ml batches using amaretto ( because I use this flavoring as a secondary with say coffees and some desert flavored juices like creme` Brulee ). Whatever amount of VG and Amaretto flavoring I am going to add gets mixed together really well first and set aside, along with a drop of almond flavored liquor of any type per every 5 ml (6 drops for thirty), for ten minutes. This is just a prelimenary step to emulsify the vg and allow it to combine better with the Pg or Vg base nicotine juice you add. This is the best way I have found to deal with the separation of the VG in my mixes and extend the time it takes for the mix to get too thin. I usually find that I have to re-work my Amaretto mix in the last 5 or 6 mls ( inside of two months for the thirty mls. ) and by that time I just start with that 5 or 6 mls and build another thirty mls out of it anyway. Hope this helps...

Dan is going to have to help you in the percent department because I do all that by hand myself and don't have a pc program for it.

 

[MickiO]

Yes, concerning the alcohol content of any flavoring when using VG. I have not experienced this much with PG but lets take your Amaretto... Now, I use an Amaretto flavoring and I also have the real thing to use in custom mixes. What I generally do is make 30 ml batches using amaretto ( because I use this flavoring as a secondary with say coffees and some desert flavored juices like creme` Brulee ). Whatever amount of VG and Amaretto flavoring I am going to add gets mixed together really well first and set aside, along with a drop of almond flavored liquor of any type per every 5 ml (6 drops for thirty), for ten minutes. This is just a prelimenary step to emulsify the vg and allow it to combine better with the Pg or Vg base nicotine juice you add. This is the best way I have found to deal with the separation of the VG in my mixes and extend the time it takes for the mix to get too thin. I usually find that I have to re-work my Amaretto mix in the last 5 or 6 mls ( inside of two months for the thirty mls. ) and by that time I just start with that 5 or 6 mls and build another thirty mls out of it anyway. Hope this helps...

.

Thanks, at the risk of sounding a bit dense, lol, do you mean, mix the VG and amaretto flavor together, and let it stand for 10 mins BEFORE adding nicotine? .Or do I just add everything together and let it set awhile before shaking it?