WizardLabs.. How to order flavor larger than 8ml?
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Hey thanks Hoosier. I got like 50+ little WL bottles, my DIY corner of the house is getting chaotic lol.
at 1.49 each the wizard labs prices seem like a good starting point to find what you like and need.. imo
one good thing about the small WL flavor bottles is if your a sporadic mixer like me, you can open a bottle of flavoring and keep the other bottles of that same flavoring sealed tight. repeatedly opening flavorings degrades their molecular makeup.
One person's "yuck", is another's "yummy".
agreed. but that comment did get my mind wheels turning. ive only heard of a few Capellas being talked about much. the Cinnamon Danish and the Sweet Strawberry. ive been wanting to try them but ive got so many TFA flavorings i havent even mixed yet so yeah....that might not happen any time soon for me.
Yes, great size and price for sampling TPA/TFA. But when/if you decide you what 120ml at the best price.
120 ml DK Tobacco Base (TFA)
Anybody know of better, let me know.
If you are buying JUST tfa flavorings you will kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince(ss).
There are a few good flavorings in their lineup, but many that are just bad. Chemical, floral and/or perfumy. But they are inexpensive.
Capella and Flavour Art are more expensive for a reason. They are more realistic.
There are a few good flavorings in their lineup, but many that are just bad. Chemical, floral and/or perfumy. But they are inexpensive.
Capella and Flavour Art are more expensive for a reason. They are more realistic.
I think many are just tougher to use and not suitable for new mixers. I completely disagree that "many are just bad" as I have found most of them to be good. May take me more than a few experiments but it's there.
And if anyone is getting chemically, floral, and/or perfume-y and hasn't read my blog, it will continue to be issue for you.
I find most Capella's can make a good juice, but not so for great...and I don't consider a recipe "right" until it's great. I recommend Capella's to new mixers because it is usually difficult to get the chemically/floral/perfume thing out of them when it is real easy to get there with many other flavorings.
FA is good stuff, but it also can go to weird places too. Excluding their tobaccos, they do tend to be more forgiving than many TPA/TFA flavorings. (FA's tobacco type flavorings are in a completely different category than anything else.)
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread.html
There are a few people here that seem to like TPA/TFA
I have yet had to trash anything......but it will be a long time before I get to sampling everything I got
There are a few people here that seem to like TPA/TFA
I have yet had to trash anything......but it will be a long time before I get to sampling everything I got
Being the new(er) DIY guy, I've had the same sentiment towards TPA/TFA and even FA. Most of their flavorings are just wacked out levels of floral tones, which make me gag. I've tossed a lot of tobacco concentrates and bad mixes, and even many empty bottles that I can't rid of the floral undertones. Granted, any floral tones I seem to be highly sensitive to, and I while I don't have any medical reaction or issues with them, I find the taste so disgusting that I have to listerine my mouth after tasting them.
That being said, I have read your blogs Hoosier, good stuff- And I can admit it's most likely my own issues, but with all the experimenting I've done, I personally have found LA concentrates to be extremely pleasing and while I've read that they take more % per ML for flavor, I've not seen that- I've found my sweet spot is generally 20-23% flavor regardless of brand.
But when I compare basic flavors like cherry, blueberry, or whatever, I find most just taste like chemical factories whereas LA tastes like the actual fruit / candy it's supposed to.
but LA doesn't make tobacco flavors, so I'm still looking for that made-for-me flavor. So far 555 is closest, but on my scale of taste is still un-vapable. I have 3 new ones steeping right now and haven't tried them yet (capt black, english tobacco, and commercial tobacco) all from WL. I've tried a few pre-made tobacco mixes from a few different vendors, and there were a couple of signature lines that showed me it's possible to find a great one, but none were good enough- pink spot's honey tobacco was probably closest. The worst for me is RY-whatever's. I've tried several after reading how everyone raves about them, and every last one of them tasted like a chemical plant to me. Guess I'm just sensitive lol.
The search and experimentation continues...
That being said, I have read your blogs Hoosier, good stuff- And I can admit it's most likely my own issues, but with all the experimenting I've done, I personally have found LA concentrates to be extremely pleasing and while I've read that they take more % per ML for flavor, I've not seen that- I've found my sweet spot is generally 20-23% flavor regardless of brand.
But when I compare basic flavors like cherry, blueberry, or whatever, I find most just taste like chemical factories whereas LA tastes like the actual fruit / candy it's supposed to.
but LA doesn't make tobacco flavors, so I'm still looking for that made-for-me flavor. So far 555 is closest, but on my scale of taste is still un-vapable. I have 3 new ones steeping right now and haven't tried them yet (capt black, english tobacco, and commercial tobacco) all from WL. I've tried a few pre-made tobacco mixes from a few different vendors, and there were a couple of signature lines that showed me it's possible to find a great one, but none were good enough- pink spot's honey tobacco was probably closest. The worst for me is RY-whatever's. I've tried several after reading how everyone raves about them, and every last one of them tasted like a chemical plant to me. Guess I'm just sensitive lol.
The search and experimentation continues...
the reason you think tfa/fa is disgusting is you are using way way too much flavoring.....using la you use more cause they are generally very weak....perfumey/chemical taste is the result of too much..more often than not. i can't think of a single tfa flavor that i would ever use at 20+%, that is just way way too much...most of my mixes don't even total 20% . take the advice of myself and hoosier that have been doing this for years and use less!!!!
again, if you are getting a perfume taste you are using too much!!!! your sweet spot you need to throw out the window cause every flavor is different in strength and needs to be treated as such
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I might agree, but every flavor I know is different, and I always start at 5%. Most of the flavors I mentioned throwing away were tasteless at 5%, but I did my diligence and slowly upped it as I tested. The flavors I vape at 20%+ are all fruits and desserts, which I'm sure are not overkill as I've read hundreds of recipes in the recipe section that seem to hover at 20% total flavors.
I don't mean to sound defensive, but I've just been down that road. The tobacco steeping I mentioned are all 5%'ers right now. Time will tell. Maybe when I'm a year or two in, my tastes will change- I've read that many people tone down flavor over time. My issue is that the PG/VG bases have a distinct cardboard type flavor, if you can call it that, and I use what I deem necessary to overcome it. At 5% with any of my normal vapes, I would taste only cardboard with only a hint of cherry, or whatever flavor.
I learned the most from these lines. It's very telling to me. What does it mean to you?
I dunno.
If you are suggesting that the PG/VG shouldn't have a taste, I've already thought about it. I've tried a few different suppliers, all have come through with crystal clear bases (no tint). All the bases taste the same. Saying it tastes like cardboard is not as accurate as I would like, but it's difficult to describe the actual (lack of) flavor of base. I've tested all my bases with zero flavor just to clear out clearo's. Maybe I should refer to the base tasting like a cotton ball or tofu? Something without flavor, but still there's something distinct about it, enough that we use flavoring instead of just vaping base. I don't find it offensive, I just find it unsatisfying.
Let's say I use 5% licorice, as that's one of my go-to flavors. I can taste the licorice, of course. But the flavor at 5% isn't enough to overcome the cottony-ness of the base. add some EM and still it gets sweeter/smoother, but the overall profile doesn't change. I go to 10% it's better, overcomes the base by 50% or so. Move up to 15% and now I can taste the licorice well, but there's still that hint of base that I don't want in there, so I get to 20-23% and there's the sweet spot.. I taste nothing but delicious sweet licorice, it's smooth as silk and yet still has a good strong TH.
Of course there are exceptions. I have spearmint which as 5 drops per ml is strong enough to scent my whole house when mixing, and tastes like a mint bomb went off in my PV. Gotta soak my Clearo in vodka to get rid of the after-tones.
But my experience with TFA and go back to a dessert or fruit flavor, like strawberry. Start at 5%. Can't taste anything but Base.
10% nothing but base.
15% I think I detect something.. I'm not even sure
20% ok I taste something, but it doesn't even taste like strawberry, more like a chemical toilet
ONE TIME I decided to keep going just to see what would happen. I ended up at 60% before I could say that the flavor overcame the base, and it was worse than a chemical toilet.
Now, I'm no rocket scientist, nor am I a chemist, but these are FOOD flavorings, right? I mean, I can sniff test and tell that the strawberry does in fact smell like strawberry. I'm just left wondering to myself if some of these compositions are created with additional chemicals or something that isn't noticable in food, but is with vaping? I know you look at my arguments and feel I don't know what I'm talking about, but from my POV, I found something that works at normal levels, and I found other things that don't, so why would I continue to do something that's not working for me? I will correct myself at this point and dare to say that many of the TFA flavors don't even smell right, or smell like chemicals. We all get a good whiff of the flavor when rinsing it down the drain.
ugh, didn't mean to go on a tangent, but just trying to say I've been playing with these flavors for weeks non-stop now and maybe I'm just uniquely sensitive to flavors or something, but LA so far are the best flavors I've used, and I don't have a problem with that
If you are suggesting that the PG/VG shouldn't have a taste, I've already thought about it. I've tried a few different suppliers, all have come through with crystal clear bases (no tint). All the bases taste the same. Saying it tastes like cardboard is not as accurate as I would like, but it's difficult to describe the actual (lack of) flavor of base. I've tested all my bases with zero flavor just to clear out clearo's. Maybe I should refer to the base tasting like a cotton ball or tofu? Something without flavor, but still there's something distinct about it, enough that we use flavoring instead of just vaping base. I don't find it offensive, I just find it unsatisfying.
Let's say I use 5% licorice, as that's one of my go-to flavors. I can taste the licorice, of course. But the flavor at 5% isn't enough to overcome the cottony-ness of the base. add some EM and still it gets sweeter/smoother, but the overall profile doesn't change. I go to 10% it's better, overcomes the base by 50% or so. Move up to 15% and now I can taste the licorice well, but there's still that hint of base that I don't want in there, so I get to 20-23% and there's the sweet spot.. I taste nothing but delicious sweet licorice, it's smooth as silk and yet still has a good strong TH.
Of course there are exceptions. I have spearmint which as 5 drops per ml is strong enough to scent my whole house when mixing, and tastes like a mint bomb went off in my PV. Gotta soak my Clearo in vodka to get rid of the after-tones.
But my experience with TFA and go back to a dessert or fruit flavor, like strawberry. Start at 5%. Can't taste anything but Base.
10% nothing but base.
15% I think I detect something.. I'm not even sure
20% ok I taste something, but it doesn't even taste like strawberry, more like a chemical toilet
ONE TIME I decided to keep going just to see what would happen. I ended up at 60% before I could say that the flavor overcame the base, and it was worse than a chemical toilet.
Now, I'm no rocket scientist, nor am I a chemist, but these are FOOD flavorings, right? I mean, I can sniff test and tell that the strawberry does in fact smell like strawberry. I'm just left wondering to myself if some of these compositions are created with additional chemicals or something that isn't noticable in food, but is with vaping? I know you look at my arguments and feel I don't know what I'm talking about, but from my POV, I found something that works at normal levels, and I found other things that don't, so why would I continue to do something that's not working for me? I will correct myself at this point and dare to say that many of the TFA flavors don't even smell right, or smell like chemicals. We all get a good whiff of the flavor when rinsing it down the drain.
ugh, didn't mean to go on a tangent, but just trying to say I've been playing with these flavors for weeks non-stop now and maybe I'm just uniquely sensitive to flavors or something, but LA so far are the best flavors I've used, and I don't have a problem with that
sounds like you are getting bad taste/muted taste from your gear....you may want to rethink that it is juice that is your problem
Not picking on you, but you bring up some good points. One, the big one, is that things can go weird fast. The first recipe I set out to make took me 5 months to figure out. A sane person would have given up. Luckily I'm not known for being sane.
I don't like the tofu reference because tofu is very good at taking up flavorings and tasting like something completely different. (As long as you can get past the texture part.) I do like the cotton-ball / cardboard because that makes sense. It's a light flavor, you know it when you taste it, but you'd be hard pressed to describe it well. For me VG tastes like a really light extra virgin olive oil, it's more of a texture than a flavor. PG tastes like a haunted house. (Put on quite a few haunted houses before, and after, I started vaping so that vapor from boiled PG was already locked in my brain from the fog machines.)
A good VG, I can feel, but cannot taste. I've had plenty of VG's that were not good, but never had a bad one. PG is more like cotton-balls, there is a flavor, but it's light and I cannot describe it. Nicotine solutions is where I find the wildest swings of flavor. The worse was like holding a copper penny in my mouth while covered in fish slime. The best doesn't have a describable taste, but has a pepper kind of sensation and if I think about pepper when tasting, I can taste pepper, but that is an association thing and not a real flavor.
Everyone's sense of taste is different and then it changes. (I think sliced boiled egg goes great with asparagus while the wife thinks that is the nastiest combo known to only weirdos like me.) Used to hate broccoli when I was younger and now I love it. Some things that I used to really like, I no longer do. (Pancakes are nasty to me now as an example.) Throw in smoking, healing from having smoked, and that all those receptors are coming back and the whole thing is just weird. Add in that some flavorings can seemingly go from too light to completely wrong with what seems like half a drop and the whole DIY thing can get frustrating quick.
I drip. One of the reasons I drip is I hate that "carto taste". It mutes everything and leaves an aftertaste I cannot stand. Some folks never taste it, or like it, and some think that is the way vapor is suppose to taste. I cannot say any of them are wrong. I can only say what works for me. Just like you and Lorann's. I only find a few of those flavorings work for me. The rest are just wrong. (Again for me) So when I see someone who likes flavoring I don't, I try to find out why. I don't think they are wrong. (I do think it is wrong to say that all of them are crap and everyone should use XYZ like me. That doesn't help me or anyone else trying to learn how to mix for themselves which is the point of this sub-forum for me.)
You are mistaken if you think I don't feel you know what you are talking about. It's your sense of taste, not mine. I doubt you loathe pancakes as much as I do and love sliced boiled egg on your asparagus like me. Lorann's serves your purpose of covering up something you don't like and you can get it to cover that up before it goes to the weird version of the flavoring. (The post I made that started this tangent was made just to inform others that blanket statements of a flavoring vendor's products is rather silly. Maybe I could have worded it better, but the point stands as it was made.)
What I learned, from those lines I quoted, is that you are covering something up. You have a need to cover something up in the base. Many of the vendors we use are getting their stuff from the same sources and repackaging them, so it gets doubly difficult to know if ordering from somewhere else really means anything. The only PG I ever got that I could not taste anything in the base came from TS while the second gallon I got from another TS did have the typical PG flavor-ish thing. Is that due to my sense of taste changing or the second batch being older? I don't have a clue, but I constantly strive to have my bases be the most flavorless things possible. I don't know if what you are covering up is what you taste from great base, your base is a bit off, your nicotine is a bit oxidized, your nicotine has trace elements your sensitive to, your threads on PV have never been cleaned, your clearo/carto/atty, your heating coil, or even the type of wick you use. (There were more things to list, but I'm getting tired of typing.)
And your post could help someone else. I'll bet there are folks who have avoided LA's flavorings because of other mixers bad reviews of them, but it just might be the flavoring they need? My posts just drew it out of you. Hope you don't find it too annoying because I tend to do this silly stuff fairly often.
I don't like the tofu reference because tofu is very good at taking up flavorings and tasting like something completely different. (As long as you can get past the texture part.) I do like the cotton-ball / cardboard because that makes sense. It's a light flavor, you know it when you taste it, but you'd be hard pressed to describe it well. For me VG tastes like a really light extra virgin olive oil, it's more of a texture than a flavor. PG tastes like a haunted house. (Put on quite a few haunted houses before, and after, I started vaping so that vapor from boiled PG was already locked in my brain from the fog machines.)
A good VG, I can feel, but cannot taste. I've had plenty of VG's that were not good, but never had a bad one. PG is more like cotton-balls, there is a flavor, but it's light and I cannot describe it. Nicotine solutions is where I find the wildest swings of flavor. The worse was like holding a copper penny in my mouth while covered in fish slime. The best doesn't have a describable taste, but has a pepper kind of sensation and if I think about pepper when tasting, I can taste pepper, but that is an association thing and not a real flavor.
Everyone's sense of taste is different and then it changes. (I think sliced boiled egg goes great with asparagus while the wife thinks that is the nastiest combo known to only weirdos like me.) Used to hate broccoli when I was younger and now I love it. Some things that I used to really like, I no longer do. (Pancakes are nasty to me now as an example.) Throw in smoking, healing from having smoked, and that all those receptors are coming back and the whole thing is just weird. Add in that some flavorings can seemingly go from too light to completely wrong with what seems like half a drop and the whole DIY thing can get frustrating quick.
I drip. One of the reasons I drip is I hate that "carto taste". It mutes everything and leaves an aftertaste I cannot stand. Some folks never taste it, or like it, and some think that is the way vapor is suppose to taste. I cannot say any of them are wrong. I can only say what works for me. Just like you and Lorann's. I only find a few of those flavorings work for me. The rest are just wrong. (Again for me) So when I see someone who likes flavoring I don't, I try to find out why. I don't think they are wrong. (I do think it is wrong to say that all of them are crap and everyone should use XYZ like me. That doesn't help me or anyone else trying to learn how to mix for themselves which is the point of this sub-forum for me.)
You are mistaken if you think I don't feel you know what you are talking about. It's your sense of taste, not mine. I doubt you loathe pancakes as much as I do and love sliced boiled egg on your asparagus like me. Lorann's serves your purpose of covering up something you don't like and you can get it to cover that up before it goes to the weird version of the flavoring. (The post I made that started this tangent was made just to inform others that blanket statements of a flavoring vendor's products is rather silly. Maybe I could have worded it better, but the point stands as it was made.)
What I learned, from those lines I quoted, is that you are covering something up. You have a need to cover something up in the base. Many of the vendors we use are getting their stuff from the same sources and repackaging them, so it gets doubly difficult to know if ordering from somewhere else really means anything. The only PG I ever got that I could not taste anything in the base came from TS while the second gallon I got from another TS did have the typical PG flavor-ish thing. Is that due to my sense of taste changing or the second batch being older? I don't have a clue, but I constantly strive to have my bases be the most flavorless things possible. I don't know if what you are covering up is what you taste from great base, your base is a bit off, your nicotine is a bit oxidized, your nicotine has trace elements your sensitive to, your threads on PV have never been cleaned, your clearo/carto/atty, your heating coil, or even the type of wick you use. (There were more things to list, but I'm getting tired of typing.)
And your post could help someone else. I'll bet there are folks who have avoided LA's flavorings because of other mixers bad reviews of them, but it just might be the flavoring they need? My posts just drew it out of you. Hope you don't find it too annoying because I tend to do this silly stuff fairly often.
I have 3 words that i hope will wrap up this off topic tangent: chocolate cream pie
I love chocolate cream pie. I've never made one but i can spot a piece of it from 20 paces easily. and it is easy to see that it has 3 basic components: pie crust on the bottom, chocolate in the middle and some kind of creamy or merange stuff on top. enough looking at it, i want to inhale it, figuratively at least because heck, i love chocolate cream pie.
soon after i first learned that my vape didn't have to taste like an ashtray i figured out that if i like to eat or drink it i'm going to like to vape it. so lets say i venture into diy and come up with the perfect chocolate cream pie recipe and whip up a batch. then i get a piece of some awesome chocolate cream pie, you know, from that restaurant or bakery that makes awesome pies.
so there i am with my with my fork in one hand and my batt and atty in the other. get the picture? which tastes better? no contest right?
no matter how good the diy recipe, no matter how much flavoring i use, what i have in my atty is never gonna taste any where near as good as what's on my fork. don't even try. If what i'm vaping taste good and taste LIKE chocolate cream pie---success!!!
so, argument settled right?
I reiterate: chocolate cream pie....yum
I love chocolate cream pie. I've never made one but i can spot a piece of it from 20 paces easily. and it is easy to see that it has 3 basic components: pie crust on the bottom, chocolate in the middle and some kind of creamy or merange stuff on top. enough looking at it, i want to inhale it, figuratively at least because heck, i love chocolate cream pie.
soon after i first learned that my vape didn't have to taste like an ashtray i figured out that if i like to eat or drink it i'm going to like to vape it. so lets say i venture into diy and come up with the perfect chocolate cream pie recipe and whip up a batch. then i get a piece of some awesome chocolate cream pie, you know, from that restaurant or bakery that makes awesome pies.
so there i am with my with my fork in one hand and my batt and atty in the other. get the picture? which tastes better? no contest right?
no matter how good the diy recipe, no matter how much flavoring i use, what i have in my atty is never gonna taste any where near as good as what's on my fork. don't even try. If what i'm vaping taste good and taste LIKE chocolate cream pie---success!!!
so, argument settled right?
I reiterate: chocolate cream pie....yum
I use mostly TFA flavors, I get my samples from WL and anything else from TFA. There flavors can take some work to get right (say, 2.75% vs 3%) my favorite recipe has 5 flavors (4 TFA + 1 SM) and totals a whopping 4.5% total flavoring.
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