Interesting. I have had a similar experience only instead of deciding that God didn't exist, I just decided that everyone else's God didn't exist, Just mine did. Hahaha.
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I don't think everyday life is conducive to total understanding and awareness, if we didn't filter things out we wouldn't be able to function. I've had times when I've been psychotic and absolutely everything seemed significant, all sensory information, it was awful, very distressing - total sensory overload.
If there is another level of awareness and it includes telepathy or a link to more stimulation I'm not sure I would be able to handle it, I'm happy enough with the levels of consciousness I'm already capable of. On the other hand if there was a singular consciousness that we ascend to experience I could imagine it might work if it was silent and dull. Anything and everything is possible I guess. I don't understand why people tend to imagine an afterlife as being different from what we currently experience.
If there is another level of awareness and it includes telepathy or a link to more stimulation I'm not sure I would be able to handle it, I'm happy enough with the levels of consciousness I'm already capable of. On the other hand if there was a singular consciousness that we ascend to experience I could imagine it might work if it was silent and dull. Anything and everything is possible I guess. I don't understand why people tend to imagine an afterlife as being different from what we currently experience.
Hi Kate,
From how I understand it, it's not that it is an "everyday" understanding and awareness because that would bring it into our "radar" awareness. I'm not saying this very well, but I think it's more like, well, you know, when you are really trying to play an instrument or concentrate on something and you keep making mistakes? When you finally put "yourself" aside, your performance improves. Did that make sense? It's not a total understanding and awareness because that is not possible in what we call "our" awareness. It's not brought up to the ego to examine. It's spontaneous if "we" don't get in the way.
I think what is being said is that the ego is an illusion. It exists in much the same way as any number actually exists. It is handy (and needed) in life, but we need to recognize that it really doesn't exist in reality.
If that didn't make any sense at all, I can try better.
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That does make sense in the way transcendence of the ego/getting outside ourselves can liberate us. That experience itself isn't easy to sustain, it has to be transient or we'd be off our heads all the time and not able to cope with mundane life. I'm vulnerable to psychosis and have to be careful these days with psychic, mystical and transcendent states because they can consume what little sense I have left 
EDIT to add
Maybe my ego isn't capable of keeping me grounded sometimes, I think I totally lose it occasionally and find it hard to get back to real life.
EDIT to add
Maybe my ego isn't capable of keeping me grounded sometimes, I think I totally lose it occasionally and find it hard to get back to real life.
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I can understand that. I've heard that some people don't want to come back and then there are others that do. I personally think that just "knowing" that state exists is enough for me. The contrast is what makes life go more smoothly, IMO. I did the ego thing for many years and it wasn't fun at all. I didn't realize the liberation state existed, but I don't think it would be good all the time either. It always seems the middle is the best.That does make sense in the way transcendence of the ego/getting outside ourselves can liberate us. That experience itself isn't easy to sustain, it has to be transient or we'd be off our heads all the time and not able to cope with mundane life. I'm vulnerable to psychosis and have to be careful these days with psychic, mystical and transcendent states because they can consume what little sense I have left
EDIT to add
Maybe my ego isn't capable of keeping me grounded sometimes, I think I totally lose it occasionally and find it hard to get back to real life.
I have only experienced flashes and as soon as I want to hold onto it, it vanishes.
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For sure moderation is the healthiest way to live and expanded consciousness from a balanced position is easier to sustain even though it might not seem so dramatic.
Are you following the tarot thread Sandy, you might enjoy joining in there. When you said about life being a production earlier in this thread it made me think of that one.
Are you following the tarot thread Sandy, you might enjoy joining in there. When you said about life being a production earlier in this thread it made me think of that one.
I like balance. Getting off balance really sucks. I was on many, many prescriptions at one time that seemed to help for awhile. Then something happened that made me turn into a zombie while I was taking them. I don't take anything anymore and so far, so good.
I keep jumping into the tarot thread, but I have never even investigated anything about them. I try on the thread, but I can't get it yet. I can read what you all have posted and it sounds great, but I know I am missing alot. I'll keep trying.
It's good to hear that you've managed to keep balance without drugs, they can't be a good long term solution for anyone. I take anti psychotics and anti depressants and would like to get off them but the last time I stopped taking them I ended up getting locked up in the looney bin, lol.
You're welcome on the tarot thread anytime, if there's anything that's not clear just ask and someone will probably be able to explain. Some of it is a bit of a mystery, we'll all come away with a different experience of the story and there's no knowing where it will go yet. I'm making it up as we go along, the only structure I have is a certain sequence of symbols.
You don't need to know about tarot to join in. The cards are symbols that represent archetypes that we all have access to through cultural conditioning. Mostly I'm not really using the usual descriptions anyway, I tend to draw on the psychological meanings rather than aspects associated with divination.
It's just a jolly holiday
There's going to be some bits about karma and I'm hoping you'll join in because I'm not sure I have a good grip on different ideas about that.
You're welcome on the tarot thread anytime, if there's anything that's not clear just ask and someone will probably be able to explain. Some of it is a bit of a mystery, we'll all come away with a different experience of the story and there's no knowing where it will go yet. I'm making it up as we go along, the only structure I have is a certain sequence of symbols.
You don't need to know about tarot to join in. The cards are symbols that represent archetypes that we all have access to through cultural conditioning. Mostly I'm not really using the usual descriptions anyway, I tend to draw on the psychological meanings rather than aspects associated with divination.
It's just a jolly holiday
There's going to be some bits about karma and I'm hoping you'll join in because I'm not sure I have a good grip on different ideas about that.
These drugs were prescribed by my doctor. He had me on a ton of them and they just got to be too much. I stopped taking them too fast the first time...that was a mistake.It's good to hear that you've managed to keep balance without drugs, they can't be a good long term solution for anyone. I take anti psychotics and anti depressants and would like to get off them but the last time I stopped taking them I ended up getting locked up in the looney bin, lol.
You're welcome on the tarot thread anytime, if there's anything that's not clear just ask and someone will probably be able to explain. Some of it is a bit of a mystery, we'll all come away with a different experience of the story and there's no knowing where it will go yet. I'm making it up as we go along, the only structure I have is a certain sequence of symbols.
You don't need to know about tarot to join in. The cards are symbols that represent archetypes that we all have access to through cultural conditioning. Mostly I'm not really using the usual descriptions anyway, I tend to draw on the psychological meanings rather than aspects associated with divination.
It's just a jolly holiday
There's going to be some bits about karma and I'm hoping you'll join in because I'm not sure I have a good grip on different ideas about that.
Anyway...I just checked google about the tarot and I ran accross a website that has they symbolism comparted to Jung. Cool! I haven't read much of Jung other than what Joseph Campbell mentions. Campbell seems to have much of the same process as Jung. Now it makes a little more sense because the symbolism is religion is common regardless if the religions every crossed paths. It has to do with the archetypes of the psyche.
I try to jump in when I go ahhhaa!
I believe in Karma, that every one gets what they have coming to them and I do take comfort in this.
I want what I have coming to me! Even the bad stuff. How else can anyone move forward spiritually if the refuse to accept and pay for their mistakes?
I wonder sometimes if Karma can be negotiated with? Like " I don't think I was wrong so I will not accept may fate" Will this mentality stop spiritual progress? I think so.
When a person learns that they were wrong and eventually becomes willing to accept that, Karma hands down the punishment and they then are allowed to continue their progress and receive the positive rewards for their good actions.
Of course this is just my opinion/speculation.
I want what I have coming to me! Even the bad stuff. How else can anyone move forward spiritually if the refuse to accept and pay for their mistakes?
I wonder sometimes if Karma can be negotiated with? Like " I don't think I was wrong so I will not accept may fate" Will this mentality stop spiritual progress? I think so.
When a person learns that they were wrong and eventually becomes willing to accept that, Karma hands down the punishment and they then are allowed to continue their progress and receive the positive rewards for their good actions.
Of course this is just my opinion/speculation.
I try to believe in Karma, I'd love to believe that there is universal justice and fairness. Seeing people (literally) get away with murder doesn't make it an easy faith because you have to then believe in further incarnations which I don't personally know anything about or really understand. It's a comforting belief and keeps some of us on the straight and narrow but ultimately punishment isn't a good deterrent, people really need more positive reinforcement.
Life just isn't fair on a human scale unfortunately.
I still try to keep my karma polished - just in case
Life just isn't fair on a human scale unfortunately.
I still try to keep my karma polished - just in case
I don't go for the reincarnation thing. I do believe that some people seem to get away with stuff and no repercussions. But Karma is very patient. I think in the next life is where the rewards really come in. People will test Karma by pushing a little at a time and when they see no punishment for their actions they push more and more, all the while never thinking about what lies in store for them.
knowing my higher power is forgiving and loving it's not so much the punishment to be feared but rather the lack of elevation in the spiritual realm.
I would like to start my journey on good ground and not have to make up for all my deeds as a flesh being after I get there.
Either way, It's all good.........eventually.
knowing my higher power is forgiving and loving it's not so much the punishment to be feared but rather the lack of elevation in the spiritual realm.
I would like to start my journey on good ground and not have to make up for all my deeds as a flesh being after I get there.
Either way, It's all good.........eventually.
I'm not sure I understand Vince, you say that you don't believe in reincarnation but do believe in an afterlife, is that not the same thing? Do you mean an afterlife would be in a different dimension or something and not subject to the laws of nature as we currently understand them?
Sometimes people don't know that they are being punished for their wrong doings. They blame everyone but themselves for their misery. That is their Karma and I hate to see people go unpunished, I do know that they will be punished even though I cannot see this punishment personally. What you send forth will return in double, triple or more. I am talking obout people who knowly causes harm to anyone in any fashion.
Sometimes even good people have bad things happen to them too. That is the way of the world.
Sometimes even good people have bad things happen to them too. That is the way of the world.
I believe, and IMO, that Karma is not really something that happens after death and the cause is not separate from the effect. They are actually one. When you turn a wheel, are you pulling it or pushing it? It's all one action. It isn't really linked to the past or past events (not determinism). As Alan Watts puts it, "Karma is simply not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing." The example above about the wheel applies also to north and south poles of a magnet. It is still one magnet, the wheel is one action and the left hand is the outside environment and the right hand is your organism which are also one. The action of the environment and the action of the organism are one.
So, Karma basically means "it is your doing". We are both what we do and what happens to us. We are responsible for everything. We think that we are not responsible for what happens to us, only what we do and this is the game. Alan Watts gives another example about trying to stick our own hands with knitting needles. The right hand tries and the left defends itself. After awhile there is a standstill unless you decide which hand is going to win. If you do this, you have broken the rules. The Hindus and Buddhists call this rule-breaking avidya, or ignorance (takes what is real and presents it as a subject and an object). What this says is that you are responsible for everything. The environment didn't do something to you (left hand)...you didn't do something without intent (right hand). In other words, you are also reponsible for the things that happen to you. The place in life where you are is where you have put yourself. This all comes from the understanding that everyone is a manifestation of the divine playing this game of hide and seek. Since it's impossible to give either the right hand or the left hand the advantage without the other knowing, that action and what happens is a part of the initial action itself (but that is a secret). We still may not "know" what one hand (environment vs organism) is doing in a literal, omniscient sense, but we can understand the unity beyond the knowing of the ego.
Yet, we are supposed to play the game of chosing one hand over the other and keeping it from the other and break the rules (creating subjects and objects). It's all part of the divine play. I mean, how fun would a game be if we knew the outcome? Can we really break the rules? I don't think so, but we say we can by saying things like, "what a surprise!" or "that scared me!". It's fun to play this game!
It's only when it gets to the point of being so away from this unity that it causes suffering (attachment or having a hang-up about it) is when one should realize that what happens is their doing regardless of what has happened or why. One can no longer blame their parents or their life circumstances.
To sum it up, Karma could be said to be just as illusionary as the ego. Both need a subject and object to function. Yet, they are both part of the grand divine game we call life and thereby needed.
When one asks what is the way to liberation a master may say who is asking, or who is stopping you. It all comes back to you and if you think it through, you are already in the place you chose to be.
Another good saying is to live everyday as if you have chosen it to be as it is.
It's all one action. It isn't really linked to the past or past events (not determinism). As Alan Watts puts it, "Karma is simply not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing." The example above about the wheel applies also to north and south poles of a magnet. It is still one magnet, the wheel is one action and the left hand is the outside environment and the right hand is your organism which are also one. The action of the environment and the action of the organism are one. So, Karma basically means "it is your doing". We are both what we do and what happens to us. We are responsible for everything. We think that we are not responsible for what happens to us, only what we do and this is the game. Alan Watts gives another example about trying to stick our own hands with knitting needles. The right hand tries and the left defends itself. After awhile there is a standstill unless you decide which hand is going to win. If you do this, you have broken the rules. The Hindus and Buddhists call this rule-breaking avidya, or ignorance (takes what is real and presents it as a subject and an object). What this says is that you are responsible for everything. The environment didn't do something to you (left hand)...you didn't do something without intent (right hand). In other words, you are also reponsible for the things that happen to you. The place in life where you are is where you have put yourself. This all comes from the understanding that everyone is a manifestation of the divine playing this game of hide and seek. Since it's impossible to give either the right hand or the left hand the advantage without the other knowing, that action and what happens is a part of the initial action itself (but that is a secret
). We still may not "know" what one hand (environment vs organism) is doing in a literal, omniscient sense, but we can understand the unity beyond the knowing of the ego. Yet, we are supposed to play the game of chosing one hand over the other and keeping it from the other and break the rules (creating subjects and objects). It's all part of the divine play. I mean, how fun would a game be if we knew the outcome? Can we really break the rules? I don't think so, but we say we can by saying things like, "what a surprise!" or "that scared me!". It's fun to play this game!
It's only when it gets to the point of being so away from this unity that it causes suffering (attachment or having a hang-up about it) is when one should realize that what happens is their doing regardless of what has happened or why. One can no longer blame their parents or their life circumstances.
To sum it up, Karma could be said to be just as illusionary as the ego. Both need a subject and object to function. Yet, they are both part of the grand divine game we call life and thereby needed.
When one asks what is the way to liberation a master may say who is asking, or who is stopping you. It all comes back to you and if you think it through, you are already in the place you chose to be.
Another good saying is to live everyday as if you have chosen it to be as it is.
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I have to make another post. I have edited the above so much in order to be clear that I'm afraid it will be read without the clarity I've tried to add. 8-o
It gets very confusing when speaking about the different realities (illusionary vs real) in the same post. First, when I'm posting about what is real that means what is real in the sense of a greater Self. When I'm speaking about what is illusionary, it's about what most would call real because it's about everyday life. It's a switch that often times has my mind realing. Ha! I didn't even notice my own pun until I typed it (realing...). Oh well, anyway......
Karma can said to be real in the sense of everyday life as in cause and effect, but since everyday life is the illusion, karma is an illusion in the greater scheme of things (it is your doing).
I know, that probably didn't clear a dang thing up did it? It really takes a shift in the way we think about things in order for it to make any sense at all.
It gets very confusing when speaking about the different realities (illusionary vs real) in the same post. First, when I'm posting about what is real that means what is real in the sense of a greater Self. When I'm speaking about what is illusionary, it's about what most would call real because it's about everyday life. It's a switch that often times has my mind realing. Ha! I didn't even notice my own pun until I typed it (realing...).
Oh well, anyway......Karma can said to be real in the sense of everyday life as in cause and effect, but since everyday life is the illusion, karma is an illusion in the greater scheme of things (it is your doing).
I know, that probably didn't clear a dang thing up did it? It really takes a shift in the way we think about things in order for it to make any sense at all.
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Thanks Sandy, that's something to think about. I have to admit that karma has me stumped. I can see apparently innocent people suffering - disease, famine and so on and I've seen guilty people get away with murder and prosper. In human social terms there doesn't appear to be justice in the laws of nature and it takes a leap of faith for me to believe that on the grand scale of things there is fairness.
Another thing that I suppose I relate to human administration of justice is that justice not only should be done but should also be seen to be done. Victims should know that steps have been taken to ensure they don't continue to be victims.
I know natural laws can't be expected to compare with human laws but that's maybe one of the hard things to get past when doubting fairness. Another thing I suppose is how to define fair.
For sure I think there are natural laws - there is order along with chaos and a balance to maintain existence as we know it, some kind of harmony of energy. I suppose my thoughts should consider how karma fits as a natural law that can be trusted without absolute evidence.
Another thing that I suppose I relate to human administration of justice is that justice not only should be done but should also be seen to be done. Victims should know that steps have been taken to ensure they don't continue to be victims.
I know natural laws can't be expected to compare with human laws but that's maybe one of the hard things to get past when doubting fairness. Another thing I suppose is how to define fair.
For sure I think there are natural laws - there is order along with chaos and a balance to maintain existence as we know it, some kind of harmony of energy. I suppose my thoughts should consider how karma fits as a natural law that can be trusted without absolute evidence.
there is much I have learned
yet, much I still seek to fathom
yet, much I still seek to fathom
in some silent depths I feel mysteriously drawn to probe
for lost Essenic pearls of truth
which first appear, then disappear
in swirls of deep, green water
for lost Essenic pearls of truth
which first appear, then disappear
in swirls of deep, green water
wisps of love ... hazes of fear
sometimes distored ... sometimes clear
sometimes distored ... sometimes clear
and always the question
why?
why?
what is this insistent pull on my mind ?
what is it urging me to find ?
what is it urging me to find ?
is it simple a need to pursue, with Aries persistence
the reason for humanity's continued existence ?
the reason for humanity's continued existence ?
no, I fear it is something more ... long lost on a forgotten shore
calling me on and on ... to explore ... the ancient laws
of Karma
calling me on and on ... to explore ... the ancient laws
of Karma
by Linda Goodman
Linda Goodman's Star Signs
The Secret Codes of the Universe
Forgotten Rainbows and Forgotten Melodies
of Ancient Wisdom
I read this book back in 1980's and loved it. Still do. I still have this book. She was brillant. When I have time I will type what she wrote about Karma which is very interesting. Her concept.
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