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Zen and the Art of Batteries

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by synergis7, Nov 12, 2017.

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  1. Paul Mohr

    Paul Mohr Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2017
    Adrian MI
    Same thing happened to me. I just assumed since I got them at a vape shop they were good. Mooch may very well have saved my life. Literally, not joking. After looking up the numbers a few of them turned out to only be 4 or 5 amp batteries that were more suited to flashlight use or something.
     
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  2. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    No Zen vs Mooch anything going on. :)
     
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  3. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    More double-posting misbehavior from ECF...ignore.
     
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  4. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    I had a battery explode in my first mod back in 2012. If that had not happened, I may have not have taken upon myself to learn as much as I could about batteries and safety with vaping.

    When I started vaping, our choices in batteries were pretty slim and limited to primarily Trustfire ICR batteries. Shortly after that AW came out with the first IMR batteries. Since IMR batteries were "unprotected", most of the "vaping experts" were advising us to continue to use protected batteries in our mods.

    From my research, this didn't seem right. IMR was a safer chemistry which didn't require protection circuits and was far less likely to flame/explode than ICR. And although IMR cells had less capacity than ICR, they had a lower internal resistance and were high drain which is a plus for vaping.

    There was a common misnomer in the vaping community that a protected battery was safer to use than an unprotected IMR battery. There was a belief that a protected battery would prevent you from over-drawing your battery and prevent it to explode or vent gas. I'm not certain where this belief started, but it needs clarification. A battery labeled as "protected" does not always prevent you from applying a higher current draw than it is capable of handling.

    The protection circuits in batteries vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but primarily prevent you from over-discharging (using the battery past its minimum charge rating) or over-charging the battery. The "protection" moniker is not all-inclusive either. Some will provide just over-discharge protection, others have over-charge protection, and in some batteries over-current protection.

    It made more sense to me that IMR batteries were the better choice, so I wrote my first blog, "Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?" which became quite popular worldwide and was used on several online vendor websites as a guide for purchasing batteries. This blog was revised over the years and is now titled, Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping. Today, ICR batteries are considered obsolete for vaping, and I like to believe I may have played a part in that.

    Battery technology for lithium batteries has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years. This was inspired by their use in hybrid electric cars. Keep in mind that the batteries that we use in our mods were never intended to be used as such, but we have benefited by that technology just the same.

    We currently have safer, more powerful batteries than a few years ago. Yet there are more catastrophic battery incidents in vaping now than ever before. We can place some of that blame onto there are more people vaping than a few years ago, but also how we are expecting more and more from our batteries. Many in our community are pushing the limits of the batteries beyond the safe parameters than they were designed for. Sub-ohm vaping with mechanical mods and using direct-battery (hybrid) mechanical mods, if used ignorantly, can make our vaping devices literal pipe bombs.

    There were 50 major incidents last year (2016) alone and that's just the ones which make the news. More than ever, e-cigarettes explode during use. Explosions resulting from people carrying spare batteries in their pockets are also far more common. Regardless of the circumstances, e-cigarette explosions are far more likely to cause injuries today than they were in the past. E-Cigarette Explosions: Comprehensive List

    Sorry for the long rant and history lesson. :blush:
     
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  5. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    I have my own peeve about "protected" batteries - or, more accurately, outdated advice. I didn't start using replaceable batteries until about a year ago. I like research. I'm rather good at research. So, before I bought a battery I did some research. Enter one of the most confusing phases of my life.

    One of the first things I discovered was that it was important to use protected batteries. Many stickies on ECF and other recommended resources told me so. So, I looked for protected batteries. Couldn't find any. Kept looking. Kept researching. Eventually I came across a brief statement somewhere explaining that "old" (ICR) batteries had to be protected, but "new" ones didn't. So, next question - do I believe that statement, or the plethora of warnings to only use protected batteries?

    People often condemn posters for not knowing what they're doing when it comes to batteries and say they should have done their research - after all, there's a lot of good information out there. Well, yes, but the problem is that all that good information is sitting alongside a pile of complete rubbish. Without some basic background, how are people new to the topic supposed to sort the gold from the dross?
     
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  6. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    I feel your pain and frustration, my friend. :grr:

    It upsets me to no end when a popular (or unknown) You Tube reviewer pops in a mysterious brand battery (which says its 40A on the skin) into a mech mod with a 0.1 ohm atomizer. Those truly in the know understand that that battery is a re-wrap with extremely exaggerated specs. Our so-called "experts" are no more knowledgeable than a noobie sometimes. Where is the responsibility to the viewership? Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded) Battery?

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. By nature, the 18650 battery industry is extremely competitive, secretive, and sometimes deceptive to consumers. Until this changes, battery consumers must apply extreme care in our research in what to buy and use. My hero is Mooch. He is one of the first independent researchers to test and grade batteries. Our choices must be made on scientific research, not on inflated marketing claims by deceptive battery suppliers or ignorant "experts".

    Mooch's blog should be stickied above all of the sub-forums. His information on batteries should be considered mandatory reading.
     
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  7. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    If I could change *one* thing about vaping, it would be that users were well educated (with the correct info) about batteries. I am so glad I found this site, as honestly, I didn't know much about removable batteries and was not treating them with the care and concern I should have. Honestly, I've learned so much from this site, but I think knowing about batteries should be mandatory. And, I am going to bet (or guess) that it's the one thing the FDA doesn't get too involved in-- not that much money in it, although who knows.

    It's sad when even manufacturers/vape shop owners don't know this stuff, or teach it, it really is. Although, I was hunting around somewhere and found a two battery mod advertised and rather than selling batteries along with it, they recommended LGs or Sony's be purchased, including model number. I wish I can remember where, because I'd buy from that site, just for that. I'd look at my history but the site was all slow and I cleared my cashe. Congrats, though, online vendor, kudos to you!

    And thank you again, Mooch and the other battery folks... :)

    Anna
     
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