Zen and the Art of Batteries

[synergis7]

I was researching the Kabuki 501 tank, and found this post:

Anybody Using A Kabuki?

...which had this video linked:



Zen drops a ton of knowledge, and toward the end starts to riff on batteries, pointing out how prolific counterfeiting is in the industry. This prompted me to check mine.

I have (or *thought* I had) 5 AW 18490's. The two I got from provapes way back when with my Provari are legit, the three I got on Amazon were all fake

This is something new to me, I've been vaping since 2009 and have never questioned the legitimacy of the batteries I buy.

It would seem that Amazon is not a great place to buy batteries!

He also says you should never buy a charger with 'fire' in the name, which seems a good point

 

[Baditude]

Haven't seen that video before; I'll watch it after responding here.

Between 2013 - 2015, AW batteries were the most popular batteries (the first IMR's on the market) and the most frequently counterfeited. In fact, AW has said that all the AW batteries sold on Alibaba are fake. Since then, it seems whatever battery is the most popular will have the most counterfeits (Sony VTC4, Samsung 25R, LG H2, etc).
How to identify older counterfeit AW batteries
How to identify counterfeit Samsung25R batteries
How to identify counterfeit Sony batteries | E-Cigarette Forum
Fake LG Battery alert

Amazon and Ebay are two of the more risky places to purchase batteries. Online vendors that specialize in batteries (like many flashlight specialists) have better and more trustful suppliers and are the best source for us.
www.liionwholesale.com
www.imrbatteries.com
www.illumn.com
www.rtdvapor.com
www.batterybro.com
www.orbtronic.com
www.nkon.nl
www.akkuteile.de
Welcome to Ecolux. The UK's Battery and accessory specialists. Wide range of authentic leading brands in stock ready for immediate dispatch.

The cliche "never buy a battery (or charger) with fire in the name" has been around since I began vaping a few years ago ... a cliche that was well earned. I had a Trustfire battery explode in my very first mod in 2012.

Mooch and myself have extensive battery information in our blogs:
Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum
Baditude's Blogs | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Mooch]

Zen has some good info but I disagree with several statements he made regarding chemistry and safety. Nothing critical though.

I'm wondering if I'm the "ignoramus" he was referring to.

 

[synergis7]

Zen has some good info but I disagree with several statements he made regarding chemistry and safety. Nothing critical though.

I'm wondering if I'm the "ignoramus" he was referring to.

Highly doubtful, but *I* certainly feel like I was one prior to Zen's insight! You probably just know a lot about it, so have your own well thought out convictions like he does.

Now I know why those fake AWs always lost steam so quick compared to the legit ones- I guess I'm lucky there were no more serious consequences though, I used the hell out of em' for some time, and the worst they did was mildly suck at staying charged for long.

Thanks for all of the great links @Baditude, I've just ordered 4 shiny new AW 18490's from a reputable seller.

 

[synergis7]

Zen has some good info but I disagree with several statements he made regarding chemistry and safety. Nothing critical though.

I'm wondering if I'm the "ignoramus" he was referring to.

Highly doubtful, but *I* certainly feel like I was one prior to Zen's insight! You probably just know a lot about it, so have your own well thought out convictions like he does.

Now I know why those fake AWs always lost steam so quick compared to the legit ones- I guess I'm lucky there were no more serious consequences though, I used the hell out of em' for some time, and the worst they did was mildly suck at staying charged for long.

Thanks for all of the great links @Baditude, I've just ordered 4 shiny new AW 18490's from a reputable seller.

 

[sonicbomb]

The battery talk comes in at about 1:51

I'm wondering if I'm the "ignoramus" he was referring to.

Anyone referring to you as an ignoramus would be themselves an ignoramus.

 

[synergis7]

The battery talk comes in at about 1:51

Thank you! I failed to include that helpful detail in my original post.

 

[Baditude]

I'm wondering if I'm the "ignoramus" he was referring to.

I highly doubt it. That Zen video was shot in May 2015. I don't believe you gained your fame until 2016 - 2017, Mooch.

 

[Mooch]

I highly doubt it. That Zen video was shot in May 2015. I don't believe you gained your fame until 2016 - 2017, Mooch.

I was receiving a great deal of pushback about my testing at that time though.

 

[Paul Mohr]

Push back? You do bench testing. It either hits the advertised numbers or it doesn't. Did they think you were making the stuff up? lol

 

[BackDoc]

Zen is a smart guy, but his intelligence is overshadowed by his arrogance, aka: full of himself....... I'll stick with Mooch for objective data regarding batteries/cells

 

[Ablonz]

@Mooch Mooch!! Mooch!!! Mooch!!!

 

[Mooch]

Push back? You do bench testing. It either hits the advertised numbers or it doesn't. Did they think you were making the stuff up? lol

Ummm...yup.

 

[Paul Mohr]

I wonder what they thought your purpose was behind making up battery specs? Seems like an awful lot of effort for little to no gain.

I am pretty sure your life long dream was not be famous on the ECF forums and a couple you tube videos lol.

Unless it was people that are selling batteries and were afraid you would make them look bad. But then if they didn't want to look bad they shouldn't have been over charging for crap batteries.

And it isn't like someone couldn't come along and get similar results and prove you were right. Which I am guessing has probably happened by now.

 

[VapieDan]

Zen is a smart guy, but his intelligence is overshadowed by his arrogance, aka: full of himself....... I'll stick with Mooch for objective data regarding batteries/cells

Remember when Zen disdained all that is Chinese? Now he sells the stuff as well.

 

[Mooch]

I wonder what they thought your purpose was behind making up battery specs? Seems like an awful lot of effort for little to no gain.

I am pretty sure your life long dream was not be famous on the ECF forums and a couple you tube videos lol.

Unless it was people that are selling batteries and were afraid you would make them look bad. But then if they didn't want to look bad they shouldn't have been over charging for crap batteries.

And it isn't like someone couldn't come along and get similar results and prove you were right. Which I am guessing has probably happened by now.

Vapers love big numbers. Often to the exclusion of any contradicting evidence.
Big numbers = Big $$ for the battery rewrappers.
The vast majority of vapers are unaware that these are exaggerated ratings.

 

[Mooch]

Deleted post that decided to duplicate itself.

 

[r77r7r]

.

 

[r77r7r]

Zen is a smart guy, but his intelligence is overshadowed by his arrogance, aka: full of himself....... I'll stick with Mooch for objective data regarding batteries/cells

Hear Hear. I once had Words with him here for a bit. I just gave up, lol.

 

[BackDoc]

77, his interview didn't bother me until he so casually attacked Mooch for stating a certain brand cells were rewraps ( or whomever he was referring to) and the ironic thing was he was in the midst of a tirade about rewraps?, I've been on ECF since 2010 and without the knowledge about battery saftey that I'd learned from Badattitude, and more recently Mooch I'd be in a much much more compromising position in my vaping.... these men have given their time and money to our community without reservation and with much patience and generosity......... ECF would not be what it is without them

 

[synergis7]

That moment when you check back on your thread and realize there's a whole story behind the dude in a random video you found on ECF and posted about while you were researching a tank...

I had no idea Zen VS Mooch was a 'thing', I was just happy to learn something useful about batteries! Thanks to Zen's interview I'm now rocking legit AW 18490's that just arrived in the mail, and thanks to Mooch's blog I'm going in deeper on the subject matter.

Funny that I've focused so much on juice, tanks, and coils but never for a second questioned the safety or legitimacy of the pile of various batteries and chargers I've bought and used over the years. And here I was walking around thinking I knew what I was talking about...hell I've even given people advice a time or two