Sorry to vent. Sorry that this is long. Whoever makes it to the end has my appreciation.
I had the rare opportunity to be in the presence of two physicians and speak to them about my e-cig at a nice cozy dinner at the home of my own primary care physician on Friday evening. My primary care physician is around 62 years old and has been my doctor for over 10 years. He is currently not a specialist, he is a general practitioner or simply "family medicine" as it's known although he did focus on cardiology at one point. After years of upgrading his home network, repairing his computers and assisting him with the design for many of his lecture presentations, I think we have become friends. I was at his home for this dinner with his family and friends because he has some big ideas regarding the future of Health Information Technology and Electronic Medical Records.
The other doctor present, also in his early 60's, is a very charismatic figure that has a PhD in Psychology and specializes in "Cross Culture" therapy. He's worked for 18 years at one of our largest hospitals and has spent several years in Rhodesia helping those with mental illnesses and currently travels and gives lectures on a variety of subjects including, to my surprise, quitting smoking. Perfect opportunity I thought to bring up vaping and ask for their opinions.
First I asked my doctor if he'd ever seen an e-cig and if he's had patients that have used them. He said no patients have ever shown him one and that he'd only seen them in malls and he believed they had some tobacco. I explained what's in them, how they work, and how my 510 is quite different to what is being sold at malls as I purchase my refilling liquid from companies that list the ingredients and offer reputable methods of quality control. He seemed very happy that this has kept me off analogs but gave me a stern warning about the dangers of nicotine with my current high cholesterol, the very real problem of blockage and hardening of the arteries in all nicotine users and especially me, with my family history and predisposition to cardiovascular disease later in life.
When I explained that the nic levels can be progressively lowered from 48mg all the way down to 0mg he seemed very impressed and said, "I must admit if it's the way you say it is and you'll be down to zero level of Nicotine, I'd support on this lifestyle choice. I would, however, not recommend this to my patients until government studies indicating exactly what is in the liquid you are vaping become widely available." Naturally we had a talk about the FDA and if their decisions are truly in the best interest of the public. He feels there is much politics involved and possible lobbying and/or kickbacks from big tobacco that may prevent these devices from becoming successful in their present form.
At that moment the psychologist jumped in and said, "You are certain to develop throat cancer from these devices, I know them well." which I thought was a bit confrontational.
Just my luck to find a doctor that gave quit smoking seminars for years and believes that mind control is the only way to quit. It may be, I just never reached that mind control plateau.
I said, "Doctor, this is truly free of the carcinogens that can be found in a cigarette. There is no tobacco here." He said that was indeed true but that Nicotine is a carcinogen and went on to say that Nicotine in the body of a person that may have a propensity to develop cancer will accelerate it at light speed. He cited no specific studies but I believe he was referring to this: (Cited from Wikipedia)
"The carcinogenic properties of nicotine in standalone form, separate from tobacco smoke, have not been evaluated by the IARC, and it has not been assigned to an official carcinogen group. The currently available literature indicates that nicotine, on its own, does not promote the development of cancer in healthy tissue and has no mutagenic properties. However, nicotine and the increased cholinergic activity it causes have been shown to impede apoptosis, which is one of the methods by which the body destroys unwanted cells (programmed cell death). Since apoptosis helps to remove mutated or damaged cells that may eventually become cancerous, the inhibitory actions of nicotine may create a more favorable environment for cancer to develop, though this also remains to be proven"
This PhD went on to opine that the medical community is aware of information that will come to light in the next few years that will see the removal of all NRTs made by pharmaceutical companies from the market place in America. The carcinogenic discovery will be huge, he said, and mentioned that he had read cases of people using the patch that have developed Nicotine related cancer. This was just too much for me at this point and is very frustrating as there is no common knowledge evidence of this as I post this in 2010.
I had to say, "Don't you think there's an irony in the fact that the FDA allows the sale of tobacco cigarettes then?" He said the problem will occur only with NRT products which are all marketed as "quit smoking" assists. He said the only way to quit smoking is through strength of mind and I should be looking for a way to quit vaping as well. "Even at 0mg nicotine?", I asked. He then asked me if I wouldn't rather be truly free of any habit or addiction, not just physiological ones but psychological ones as well. "There is no need for a pacifier once we truly know ourselves." I mentioned caffeine and other addictions but the discussion was going nowhere.
Right, that was enough for me. I'm frustrated.
I so need something short and simple to "feed" these people who demonize the e-cig with. At least to educate the people present around the demonizers. I need the "right" article to carry around, a post from this forum - maybe from someone like Vocalek who writes very well - or something straight from Casaa themselves. I need to weed through it all on this forum and pick and choose and condense. I need to carry that paper around because the level of cluelessness and misinformation is enormous, even among my last hope - physicians.
Whoever made it this far, thank you. On a lighter note, I typed this post on a mid 60's electric typewriter. I'm not sure why. Had to give Harriet (it's pet name) some use! Pic related
I had the rare opportunity to be in the presence of two physicians and speak to them about my e-cig at a nice cozy dinner at the home of my own primary care physician on Friday evening. My primary care physician is around 62 years old and has been my doctor for over 10 years. He is currently not a specialist, he is a general practitioner or simply "family medicine" as it's known although he did focus on cardiology at one point. After years of upgrading his home network, repairing his computers and assisting him with the design for many of his lecture presentations, I think we have become friends. I was at his home for this dinner with his family and friends because he has some big ideas regarding the future of Health Information Technology and Electronic Medical Records.
The other doctor present, also in his early 60's, is a very charismatic figure that has a PhD in Psychology and specializes in "Cross Culture" therapy. He's worked for 18 years at one of our largest hospitals and has spent several years in Rhodesia helping those with mental illnesses and currently travels and gives lectures on a variety of subjects including, to my surprise, quitting smoking. Perfect opportunity I thought to bring up vaping and ask for their opinions.
First I asked my doctor if he'd ever seen an e-cig and if he's had patients that have used them. He said no patients have ever shown him one and that he'd only seen them in malls and he believed they had some tobacco. I explained what's in them, how they work, and how my 510 is quite different to what is being sold at malls as I purchase my refilling liquid from companies that list the ingredients and offer reputable methods of quality control. He seemed very happy that this has kept me off analogs but gave me a stern warning about the dangers of nicotine with my current high cholesterol, the very real problem of blockage and hardening of the arteries in all nicotine users and especially me, with my family history and predisposition to cardiovascular disease later in life.
When I explained that the nic levels can be progressively lowered from 48mg all the way down to 0mg he seemed very impressed and said, "I must admit if it's the way you say it is and you'll be down to zero level of Nicotine, I'd support on this lifestyle choice. I would, however, not recommend this to my patients until government studies indicating exactly what is in the liquid you are vaping become widely available." Naturally we had a talk about the FDA and if their decisions are truly in the best interest of the public. He feels there is much politics involved and possible lobbying and/or kickbacks from big tobacco that may prevent these devices from becoming successful in their present form.
At that moment the psychologist jumped in and said, "You are certain to develop throat cancer from these devices, I know them well." which I thought was a bit confrontational.
Just my luck to find a doctor that gave quit smoking seminars for years and believes that mind control is the only way to quit. It may be, I just never reached that mind control plateau.
I said, "Doctor, this is truly free of the carcinogens that can be found in a cigarette. There is no tobacco here." He said that was indeed true but that Nicotine is a carcinogen and went on to say that Nicotine in the body of a person that may have a propensity to develop cancer will accelerate it at light speed. He cited no specific studies but I believe he was referring to this: (Cited from Wikipedia)
"The carcinogenic properties of nicotine in standalone form, separate from tobacco smoke, have not been evaluated by the IARC, and it has not been assigned to an official carcinogen group. The currently available literature indicates that nicotine, on its own, does not promote the development of cancer in healthy tissue and has no mutagenic properties. However, nicotine and the increased cholinergic activity it causes have been shown to impede apoptosis, which is one of the methods by which the body destroys unwanted cells (programmed cell death). Since apoptosis helps to remove mutated or damaged cells that may eventually become cancerous, the inhibitory actions of nicotine may create a more favorable environment for cancer to develop, though this also remains to be proven"
This PhD went on to opine that the medical community is aware of information that will come to light in the next few years that will see the removal of all NRTs made by pharmaceutical companies from the market place in America. The carcinogenic discovery will be huge, he said, and mentioned that he had read cases of people using the patch that have developed Nicotine related cancer. This was just too much for me at this point and is very frustrating as there is no common knowledge evidence of this as I post this in 2010.
I had to say, "Don't you think there's an irony in the fact that the FDA allows the sale of tobacco cigarettes then?" He said the problem will occur only with NRT products which are all marketed as "quit smoking" assists. He said the only way to quit smoking is through strength of mind and I should be looking for a way to quit vaping as well. "Even at 0mg nicotine?", I asked. He then asked me if I wouldn't rather be truly free of any habit or addiction, not just physiological ones but psychological ones as well. "There is no need for a pacifier once we truly know ourselves." I mentioned caffeine and other addictions but the discussion was going nowhere.
Right, that was enough for me. I'm frustrated.
I so need something short and simple to "feed" these people who demonize the e-cig with. At least to educate the people present around the demonizers. I need the "right" article to carry around, a post from this forum - maybe from someone like Vocalek who writes very well - or something straight from Casaa themselves. I need to weed through it all on this forum and pick and choose and condense. I need to carry that paper around because the level of cluelessness and misinformation is enormous, even among my last hope - physicians.
Whoever made it this far, thank you. On a lighter note, I typed this post on a mid 60's electric typewriter. I'm not sure why. Had to give Harriet (it's pet name) some use! Pic related
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