High VG mutes flavors

[giyu]

I don't know if its the same thing that I'm experienced with my DIY custard. I did a mix of Capella VC(10%), Dulce De Leche(3%) and Caramel Original(2%) both by Signature; 76vg/24pg. I did let this steep, breathe, age....everything.
On my Magma at around .4ohm's I call it premium ejuice, but on my evod (1.8ohm head) clearo its simply complete .....

 

[dannyv45]

Hi Danny, that is what I thought at first. But I can not explain why my VG tobacco flavor has a weak taste even after 8 weeks of steeping. The same juice with 50% pg only takes 6 weeks or less.

Have you added some distilled water to it? That much VG 83% is going to need about 8% distilled water.

 

[Exchaner]

Have you added some distilled water to it? That much VG 83% is going to need about 8% distilled water.

Yes I have, as much as 10% DW. The problem might be related to the particular tobacco I am using - 7Leaves by FA. As I already said, a 50/50 mix requires approximately 6 weeks of steeping. With a higher VG content, I may have to go beyond 2months, perhaps 2 1/2 months. Or else like Delores said above, some flavors just don't go too well with VG.

 

[dannyv45]

Or it could just be that 7Leaves is just not suited to your taste. I have many tobaccos just sitting on the shelf collecting dust for that very reason.

 

[Exchaner]

Oh no, I love 7Leaves at 50% VG or lower. I have tried everything I could to make the juice right with VG at higher than 50%. Everything has failed - increasing distilled water, increased steeping time, crock pot, different sourced VG, and even increasing the flavor. I am beginning to think VG, like any other ingredient, has different effects on different taste buds. What say you?

 

[Exchaner]

Bump......

Is it possible some flavors just don't go too well with VG?

 

[dannyv45]

Oh no, I love 7Leaves at 50% VG or lower. I have tried everything I could to make the juice right with VG at higher than 50%. Everything has failed - increasing distilled water, increased steeping time, crock pot, different sourced VG, and even increasing the flavor. I am beginning to think VG, like any other ingredient, has different effects on different taste buds. What say you?

Is the flavoring a recent purchase. I've had hangsen flavoring from one place taste completely different then flavoring bought from another place. This is expecially true from places that re-bottle.

I would think 2 months steeping should be plenty of time so I don't think steeping is the issue. Maybe 10% DW is not enough, Not enough DW can have an effect on flavor and cloud production as well. Some go as high as 20% DW for 83% VG.

 

[Exchaner]

Great suggestion Danny, much appreciated. Just to clarify, in 10 ml of juice containing 30% pg, how much DW would I use, 2 ml? It's a little unclear whether the 20% number applies to the total volume or just to the volume of vg. So here are the two alternatives for a 10 ml sample:

3 ml pg, 2 ml DW, 5 ml vg. (DW is 20% of total volume)

3 ml pg, 1.2 ml DW, 5.8 ml vg. (DW is 20% of VG volume)

 

[Aheadatime]

For me, %DW suggests the % of distilled water in the final product, not strictly in relation to VG. So if you had a 30%PG mix, there would be no need for distilled water at all imo, as any distilled water added at this point makes the juice runny, easily flooded, and moots the point of higher VG mixing.

A simple rule of thumb would be to not let your VG% ever exceed 85%. This means that if the PG flavors and added PG amount to 15% or more, no DW is needed. You can modify this 'VG limit' to your liking. Some don't go past 80%, some go as high as 90-95% or even 100% if their flavorings are VG.

As for me, I've found that each recipe is unique, and thus experimentation is required. For example. some PG flavorings are runnier than others, and the same is true for VG flavorings. I've found Hangsen flavorings to be thicker (more viscous) than DIYFS's PG-free flavorings. This is accounted for in %DW. So lets say I was using 10% of a DIYFS VG flavor and 10% of a Hangsen flavor in different recipes. For the Hangsen, I would probably add 7% DW, whereas I would only add 5% to the DIYFS recipe.

Water dilutes VG more severely than PG, and alcohol more severely than water. So by adding 10%DW to the mix, it is equivalent of diluting the mix with something like 20%PG to me. This should be kept in mind, as many try to simply substitute their PG with DW and end up with a crackly, runny mix that over-dilutes their flavorings. I've found, through experimentation, that not alot of DW water is needed when the flavorings used are PG. I do not have a VG limit or a rule of thumb that I follow, but I've yet to find myself adding more than 8% DW to a flavored mix. When it's just unflavored VG nic/VG, I add 10% DW to thin it perfectly, so there would never be a reason to add that much or more water to a mix that has PG flavorings in it.

 

[Exchaner]

Ahead, I have not had much of a problem with runny juice adding as much as 12% distilled water to a juice that contains 25%pg and 63% vg. In fact Mt. Baker has an option for 20%DW to go with their high vg juices. I read somewhere in order to bring down the viscosity of vg to equal pg, you would add 15% DW. The problem is, once I go beyond 50% vg, the flavor starts to diminish. Adding water actually improves the flavor in my experience. It also improves the throat hit - something that I can't (or won't) do without. As for amount of flavorings I use, I rarely go beyond 4% - 4% for many of HS tobaccos and 2% for FA.

 

[Aheadatime]

Well if the issue is that higher VG is making particular flavorings taste off to you, then I would suggest simply keeping those particular recipes at a higher PG%. Personally, I've never encountered such an issue and tbh, I've found it to be the other way around. Most recipes that I tried converting from max VG mixes over to 50/50 mixes had too much of a dry mouth bite from the PG, and it ruined alot of the delicate notes that the recipes provided. Perhaps this is one of those cases where there is no blanket answer, and instead, subjective customization is called for.

 

[Exchaner]

I just discovered something weird with a juice that didn't taste right after 2 months of steeping given its high vg content. After an additional week of steeping, the flavor is beginning to come around. It probably needs an additional week for perfection. Reminds me that some molecules do not dissolve very easily in vg. Ethyl Maltol crystals is just one such example. They dissolve relatively easily in pg, but not so in vg - extremely hard, and only in minuscule amounts. There could have been something of similar nature in my juice that prevented it from steeping any faster.

 

[dannyv45]

Great suggestion Danny, much appreciated. Just to clarify, in 10 ml of juice containing 30% pg, how much DW would I use, 2 ml? It's a little unclear whether the 20% number applies to the total volume or just to the volume of vg. So here are the two alternatives for a 10 ml sample:

3 ml pg, 2 ml DW, 5 ml vg. (DW is 20% of total volume)

3 ml pg, 1.2 ml DW, 5.8 ml vg. (DW is 20% of VG volume)

With no DW your mix at 70vg/30pg in most devices should wick fine. May be a little thick for cotton or fiber filled cartos. I would use only 5% DW for a 70/30 for fiber filled cartos and use a syringe to penatrate into the fiber to fill it to assure even distribution throughout the materal. If your steeping long enough and your adding the proper amount of flavoring then the flavoring is the issue or the vaping hardware has an issue.

 

[Gnarishnakh]

I'll apologize in advance if this doesn't belong here, but I am new to vaping and this thread seemed to be what I'm looking for. I have purchased a premix juice in plain tobacco flavor, 16 mg nic, and I find it has too much throat hit, and is just too harsh. I do not know the pg/vg ratio. My question is, if VG mutes the flavors, could I just add some VG to this juice to reduce the harshness? I'm not looking for a ratio, just an answer, if adding vg will mute the flavor/harshness, and I will make some small batches to experiment.

 

[dannyv45]

It sounds like 16mg NIC strength may be to high for you. Diluting with VG may help. But be aware when diluting the NIC strength you are also diluting the flavor. So pour 3 ml of the juice in to a bottle and add 1 ml VG and see if that works for you and doesn't reduce flavor to much. You will be diluting it by 25% to about 12mg.

 

[Gnarishnakh]

It sounds like 16mg NIC strength may be to high for you. Diluting with VG may help. But be aware when diluting the NIC strength you are also diluting the flavor. So pour 3 ml of the juice in to a bottle and add 1 ml VG and see if that works for you and doesn't reduce flavor to much. You will be diluting it by 25% to about 12mg.

Danny, That might be the case, I have some RY4 at 12% and it's perfect. I spent some search time here (too much information!!) and was just looking for the simple. yes adding VG is OK and will lower the TH and flavor.
Thanks

 

[dannyv45]

Danny, That might be the case, I have some RY4 at 12% and it's perfect. I spent some search time here (too much information!!) and was just looking for the simple. yes adding VG is OK and will lower the TH and flavor.
Thanks

Let us know how it works out.

 

[Gnarishnakh]

Let us know how it works out.

OK, I just did the blend, 0.25 ml VG to 1 ml of my 18 mg straight tobacco for a 20% cut. TH is reduced, but the harsh flavor is still there. I'm thinking I'll wait until my eGO style kit arrives at the end of the week, then maybe order up some caramel flavor to blend in and "sweeten" it a bit. I really like the RY4, so maybe I can get a blend that will come close. I am also getting some cappuccino and peach e-liquid with my kit, so I might be enjoying those too much to mess with this right away.

On another note, I have been searching the site, looking for something for a beginning DIY, just a basic introduction like PG gives throat hit, VG makes lots of vapor, what flavors need to "steep" that sort of thing. I couldn't find anything like a basic primer on DIY, if there is one, I think making it a "sticky" would be good for beginners like me. Just a thought.