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I don't have a dna or any other TC mod but the Reliant seems feature complete(I think the screen is like the large dna screen, big and bright), not sure if it's firmware upgradeable or if it even needs to be.
It is built solid as a rock, the battery door screws on like the SX Mini (I believe that's the one that screws on) both of which are stainless (bottom and battery cover). No rattles of any kind in the battery or buttons. It also fires without needing to "wake up" first.
Only two niggles I have are tiny and personal preference, the screen timeout isn't adjustable and the screen doesn't fade out.
I am hoping it's just as good in TC but since I have no reference I won't be able to compare to bad TC other than a scorch test (which isn't very conclusive).
It is built solid as a rock, the battery door screws on like the SX Mini (I believe that's the one that screws on) both of which are stainless (bottom and battery cover). No rattles of any kind in the battery or buttons. It also fires without needing to "wake up" first.
Only two niggles I have are tiny and personal preference, the screen timeout isn't adjustable and the screen doesn't fade out.
I am hoping it's just as good in TC but since I have no reference I won't be able to compare to bad TC other than a scorch test (which isn't very conclusive).
Ok, just checked my in box 
As to the firmware updates, you only need that for bugs..... I've yet to find any... The thing has been flawless.
As to the sxk...it is most definitely not the same chip (first clue, without even seeing/using one would be the "mech mode".
All in all, at $100 bucks, it's a little pricey compared to others on the market..... But so far I'd say it's worth it.
25mm tanks sit nice with no over hang
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
As to the firmware updates, you only need that for bugs..... I've yet to find any... The thing has been flawless.
As to the sxk...it is most definitely not the same chip (first clue, without even seeing/using one would be the "mech mode".
All in all, at $100 bucks, it's a little pricey compared to others on the market..... But so far I'd say it's worth it.
25mm tanks sit nice with no over hang
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
I was wrong, you can't leave watts on the screen in TC mode. Once you press fire it switches back to having the temperature adjustment on screen. Weird, I would think you could.
Scorch test, other then proving tc exists, is irrelevant on a mod with adjustable tcr......accuracy will be based upon the setting, so mods with it are basically guaranteed to be accurate if you take the time to find the right setting
Well you know if it ignites the cotton (or rayon in my case) @ 420F (+- 5F) quickly the TC is slow to engage, other than that it's really just a gimmicky test for YouTubers.
Glad to see you here, you can answer the TC questions
Glad to see you here, you can answer the TC questions
Doesn't that 10 - 100 adjustment sound and read just like the SXK "nickel purity" setting?
Makes more sense, 0.0001 to 0.001 or whatever makes no sense.
Bloke- I have a question for you. On a TC mod that allows adjustment of the res of the addy, how would that affect the TCR settings. I believe the Evic mini allows some adjustment of the res so I wondered just how that relates in the overall picture of TC. Thanks.
Yes exactly, they've used the same scale. But it's not the SXK chip though, just they've used the same scale.
The short answer is that, at least for 99.9% of people, it wouldn't. Rather, it would affect the accuracy and therefore possibly the target temperature.
On mods without adjustable resistance, you have two resistance values: the real coil resistance, and the resistance read by the mod; the latter includes a certain amount of Static Resistance (SR) in the atomizer. The amount of SR is ideally in the milli-ohm range, like 0.005Ω, where it will account for no noticeable inaccuracy. Once it gets up to 0.01Ω it can cause an inaccuracy around 3°C for a coil with a base resistance of 0.50Ω (ie Titanium), but up to 20°C for a coil with 0.12Ω (ie Ni200.) If it gets to 0.1Ω, the TC is hundreds of degrees out for low-res Ni200, and about 40°C (100°F) out for a 0.50Ω coil eg of Titanium.
The normal way to account for this is to adjust the temperature. We pretty much do that automatically, without thinking about it. "This vape is a bit anaemic, I'll put the temp up a few degrees" / "Damn, dry hit, I've got this one set a bit too high." In a perfect world, we'd never have to do this - a 230°C / 450°F vape would always be a 230/450 vape across every build and every atomizer, it would always vape the same. But varying amounts of SR mean we often adjust the temperature slightly for different situations.
Now, a couple of months ago at the start of my Beyond Ni200 thread we were discussing doing exactly what you seem to be implying - in mods with TCR adjustment, changing the TCR rather than the temperature. A guy, whose name I can't remember but he hasn't posted in months so I'm not going to look it up
, came up with a formula by which we could work out how much to change the TCR to account for a known amount of SR.The idea was that if we knew there was, let's say, 0.03Ω SR - a large amount - we would set the TCR to a value that would give an accurate vape at the target temperature we wanted. Instead of 0.0035 for Titanium (35 on eg the Apollo and SXK scale), we'd maybe sent 0.0033, 33.
We discussed that idea because at the time, adjusting the resistance itself was impossible.
In practice, no-one bothers. The amount of SR is usually unknown, and running a formula for every build would be annoying. SR can be measured, but it can also vary even vape by vape - did you tighten the atomizer absolutely as tight this time as last time? What about those atomizers where the annoying air flow control ring always gets in the way of a really tight screw down? Etc.
Besides, changing the TCR is usually more work and effort than changing the temperature. On the Smok for example, temperature is changed by simple up/down presses, where TCR requires maybe 10 different button presses to access in the menu. And then if you swap to a different atomizer, you've got to calculate and adjust for it again.
And remember that you did so: no mod with TCR adjustment shows it on screen outside of a menu. The DNA 200 doesn't even show it on-mod, only via the PC, and even with its customisable screens it doesn't offer a field that shows the number of the active Profile; a strange omission.
It's much easier keeping the TCR at the standard value appropriate for the coil material, and adjusting temperature to suit the given atomizer/build. (One exception: we know in the Smok that it always under-heats the coil. We could work out a single TCR value that counteracts that, eg setting 0.0037 or 0.004 for Titanium. But actually that's not even an exception; what'd we be doing is replacing one static TCR with another, to counteract the fault (or deliberate meddling) inside the mod to ensure we get accurate temp settings. I plan to do that measuring soon. )
OK that was long, and I still haven't covered adjustable res! OK, so in the Smok we have adjustable res. What does that mean? It means that in certain circumstances we can change the atomizer resistance the mod uses. There's two reasons we might do that:
- In this particular attachment of the atty, we attached it when it wasn't perfectly cold, so the reading is too high. We happen to know the real value, so let's correct it down to save waiting and unscrewing/rescrewing the atomizer. The Smok has no refinement, so it won't correct automatically.
- In general, we know the amount of SR in a given atomizer/build, so let's remove it from the resistance reading to give the most accurate TC
2 would be great for ultimate TC accuracy, if we can know what the SR of a build is. I have a cheap ($50 from eBay) Chinese four-wire 'micro' ohm reader (actually more like hundred-milli-ohm; 4 digits of accuracy) and I have recently started measuring atomizer components. This is giving me an idea of the SR in my atomizers.
Another way is to simply measure the resistance of the coil before it goes on the atomizer - though I've found getting a stable reading on a coil a bit harder. I have built a test rig that I can attach coils to securely, and then measure them more accurately directly on my ohm reader. But even that isn't perfect - after I attach the coil to the deck I'm going to cut off as much as possible from the legs I can try measuring it in-situ, after installation in the atomizer, but that can also be tricky; it sometimes works measuring screw-to-screw.
Yet another complication of measuring a coil: high accuracy/resolution ohm readers have to send a large current. Mine draws 0.1A at about 3.7V, which is a lot more than a DMM but still tiny compared to expensive instruments. But even that much current is enough to heat the coil, increasing its resistance! So I need to take the very first figure I see, and hope it was a reliable one. Or repeatedly re-test it, after cooling, to get a reliable figure.
Either way, if we can work out an SR figure, we can use Adjustable Initial Ohms to set the mod to use that figure. Then, we can hope to set the real temperature we want on the mod, and not be adding or removing 10°C here and there. (Again, clouded on the Smok by the fact that you always have to add at least 20°C - but that could be solved once we come up with new, pre-adjusted TCR figures.)
In summary: Your original question was: how does adjustable ohms affect TCR. It doesn't, because we're not changing the TCR for every atomizer and its varying SR, because that's far too cumbersome. But Adjustable Ohms could give us more accurate TC, in theory reducing our need to keep adjusting temperature for each atomizer and build. It could theoretically lead to a point where 230°C is the same temperature on every atomizer and build.
But only in theory, because most people aren't going to have the high resolution ohm reader to pre-measure their coil or atomizer components, and frankly even for those of us who do, it's not that practical to do regularly.
More importantly, I've found it's just not that necessary - firstly I am already fairly satisfied that most of my atomizers have fairly minimal SR, and secondly it's much quicker just to add or subtract 5-20°C when I feel I need it, than it is to do all that measuring.
If I was using more unreliable atomizers, like I've heard the Subtank Mini is, I might feel a bit differently. And maybe I should get out my venerable STM and test its RDA deck sometime, to see what SR it gives.
I did think maybe in future I could pre-measure all or most of my atomizers, and write down their known SR figures. I might still try that. But I already know that most of them are low enough - under 0.01Ω - that it's not going to be that important with Titanium and NiFe wire. With Ni200 and its ultra low resistance it'd be much more important, but who uses that any more?
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I'll give you one example of where I for sure thought I could use Adjustable Iniital Ohms: my Kayfun 4 clone, with its infamous spring in the positive path which I haven't yet got around to fixing, has SR of up to 0.03Ω, huge. I thought I could use Adjustable Initial Ohms to remove this huge amount, because it's going to need a significant temperature offset.
Sadly when I tried it, it didn't work - after a few vapes, the locked resistance figure on screen had changed back to the initial reading, before correction. I did further tests, changing the Adjustable Initial Ohms by smaller increments, and they did stick. I don't know what's going on there. (I haven't yet gone back to trying it because I managed to get my KF4 stable in resistance, enough to vape on for now.)
But that gives you an idea as to when it might be used - cases of large inaccuracy in ohms, which are known about in advance. Then again, it of course only works if the SR is consistent; which in the KF4 it is not. What atomizers might have a large SR that doesn't change? I'm not sure.
I will definitely be playing with the feature more to see if I can find a useful case where it works reliably.
But so far I have preferred to instead work on reducing the SR in my atomizers - for example replacing stainless screws with brass ones - rather than measuring them all to adjust their ohms, which in any case I can only currently do on one mod (+ the DNA 200 but it's much less convenient to do there currently.)
(Sorry for the length of this answer, I wrote most of it in the morning when I wasn't feeling succinct, and while I've now tried to edit a bit, that only seemed to make it longer )
Sadly when I tried it, it didn't work - after a few vapes, the locked resistance figure on screen had changed back to the initial reading, before correction. I did further tests, changing the Adjustable Initial Ohms by smaller increments, and they did stick. I don't know what's going on there. (I haven't yet gone back to trying it because I managed to get my KF4 stable in resistance, enough to vape on for now.)
But that gives you an idea as to when it might be used - cases of large inaccuracy in ohms, which are known about in advance. Then again, it of course only works if the SR is consistent; which in the KF4 it is not. What atomizers might have a large SR that doesn't change? I'm not sure.
I will definitely be playing with the feature more to see if I can find a useful case where it works reliably.
But so far I have preferred to instead work on reducing the SR in my atomizers - for example replacing stainless screws with brass ones - rather than measuring them all to adjust their ohms, which in any case I can only currently do on one mod (+ the DNA 200 but it's much less convenient to do there currently.)
(Sorry for the length of this answer, I wrote most of it in the morning when I wasn't feeling succinct, and while I've now tried to edit a bit, that only seemed to make it longer
)
Ok, just checked my in box
As to the firmware updates, you only need that for bugs..... I've yet to find any... The thing has been flawless.
A few questions:
What type of wire are you building with?
Is the temp control glass smooth or can you feel slight changes in temp as it regulates?
Is there an adjustable preheat or adjustable initial firing wattage in tc mode?
Is the res adjustable, lockable or auto-refining?
Actually, rayon has a higher scorch point then cotton..... But sadly I don't know the exact point..... So for setting up your tcr, it's easier to use cotton, since we know that starts to singe at 420.Well you know if it ignites the cotton (or rayon in my case) @ 420F (+- 5F) quickly the TC is slow to engage, other than that it's really just a gimmicky test for YouTubers.
Glad to see you here, you can answer the TC questions
I'm mostly using Ti on it... Though I've used tempered ni200 as well.
The temp protection can be aggressive. If you set wattage much higher then needed, but with the right settings it's actually very smooth, with no noticeable on/off
Which answers the third question. It doesn't have a "preheat" adjustment, but the wattage can be set independently of the temp.
Oh, and the res is auto refining
So far it seems to read very accurately....even playing well with 2 of my 3 kayfun 4's (the one it doesn't play well with... None of my mods do, I need to replace the spring)
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
So far it seems to read very accurately....even playing well with 2 of my 3 kayfun 4's (the one it doesn't play well with... None of my mods do, I need to replace the spring
)Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
Oh, and the res is auto refining
So far it seems to read very accurately....even playing well with 2 of my 3 kayfun 4's (the one it doesn't play well with... None of my mods do, I need to replace the spring
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
Out of your devices which has the best TC to you? What makes it the best?
Trying to get informed so I know what to look out for.
Hmm. I'd give this one a slight edge, for the adjustable tcr. The nebula also has this, and is my favorite based on looks alone, but hits temp control far more aggressively. The arctic dolphin, though beautiful, is kinda garbage for tc with resistance readings way off, the evic has one of the smoothest vapes and regulates tc nearly un noticeable....but it's a bit off in temp on ni and quite a bit more off in ti (I measured an average of 50-60 degrees off with my probe in ti). The invader mini works much like the dna40, smooth enough output (doesn't tc aggressively) but no ti mode or adjustable tcr, so it's low on the list...its my beater work outside mod since its water proof and drop proof
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
Yeah the Nebula / SXK chip is the crudest TC I've experienced. Very pulse-y when it's trying to limit, and in tests up to 20°C inaccurate. But in practice, I still find it more than usable.
Technically speaking mods like the DNA 40, DNA 200, Dicodes, Yihi SX Mini M do an objectively better job, but I have all my TC mods on the go at once with different flavours in each tank, and I pick them up randomly. I almost never then think "oh that's a bit of a poor TC vape", even going from the Dicodes to the Nebula.
Sometimes I can feel a bit of pulsing, but it's never a huge deal. As long as there's vapour and it's not dry, it's pretty good. SXK with Stainless Steel would be one exception, more obviously variable in its vapour production (limiting too early because if I set it higher it'll get dry), but then the fact it can even do SS is a big plus.
If I had to choose one more to take to the proverbial desert island I'd obviously choose one of the smoothest and most accurate, but each mod has its price point and I'm satisfied with the vape I get even from the cheapest.
Technically speaking mods like the DNA 40, DNA 200, Dicodes, Yihi SX Mini M do an objectively better job, but I have all my TC mods on the go at once with different flavours in each tank, and I pick them up randomly. I almost never then think "oh that's a bit of a poor TC vape", even going from the Dicodes to the Nebula.
Sometimes I can feel a bit of pulsing, but it's never a huge deal. As long as there's vapour and it's not dry, it's pretty good. SXK with Stainless Steel would be one exception, more obviously variable in its vapour production (limiting too early because if I set it higher it'll get dry), but then the fact it can even do SS is a big plus.
If I had to choose one more to take to the proverbial desert island I'd obviously choose one of the smoothest and most accurate, but each mod has its price point and I'm satisfied with the vape I get even from the cheapest.
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