Atomizer + Battery Watts Chart

[jonny2hottie]

thanks for the chart...i've been looking for something to explain this process instead of doing the math to my newer vaping friends.

 

[KTaylor]

Is there a download of this up yet? The other link wouldn't load for me.

 

[Ralph T]

Is there a download of this up yet? The other link wouldn't load for me.

I wish I still had the spreadsheet itself. This is a link to the photobucket pic. With any kind of luck you can right click on the pic and download it (after clicking on the link and then clicking the picture again to make it full size).

 

[Ralph T]

I was thinking of this a couple of nights ago.

Couldn't take much of a chip to do the math or use a lookup table to set the voltage based on what the user wants watts wise.

As usual though, I tend to think of these Great ideas AFTER someone else comes out or is about to come out with the same thing.

the darwin can use a nice casing tho. lol

The real beauty of this hobbit (hobby/habit) we call vaping is the ability to find out what works for us. I think devices like the Darwin are way cool!!! For me, I like to build simple things that will last a long time. So, I have been making Altoid mods. It's simple, sturdy, reliable, off the shelf parts, self contained (can hold extra cartos), and long lasting between charges.

First one I made was double barrel. (4) 14500's in parallel. Can do two 510 dual coil cartos at once, hits like a freaking mule. Too much really... A single carto works great. Lasts me three days between charges (using one dual coil carto).

Second one was made for the extended outing. Both a 510 and an 808 connector for versatility. Two 18650's in parallel. 5 days easy, and plenty of room for extra cartos on the inside. A self contained vaping machine.

Now, I just make these for friends. (4) AA NiMh, Pre-charged Rechargeables in series. Not counting batteries, about $15 in parts. Can get the batteries anywhere. Holds two spare cartos on the end opposite of the atty connector. Good for about a day and a half between charges. In an emergency you can find AA batteries anywhere, so that is a plus, and no inherent safety problems of the Li Ion batteries. A safer mod.

All of these use a simple RS 5 ampere switch with a tactile (clicky) feel. I haven't lost one yet.

I enjoy making them myself, and they are real conversation starters.

Cheers

PS: The mini Altoid tins make great carriers for extra cartos.

 

[emus]

Those are just too cool!
I made a VV mod today and just realized I need one mod per carto.
Do you get batt holders at radio shack?

 

[Ralph T]

Yes. If you are going to use 4 AA's, the holder fits right in there. If you use the 14500's, then you will have to chop the positive end off of the holder and use the tin case itself for the positive side of the circuit, (cause they are a bit too long with the built-in protection circuit). On that first one, with the (4) 14500 batts, I later removed one of the holders making it a three battery mod, but that provided room for spare cartos. Double sided foam tape secures the battery holders in the first and last ones. I chopped up some single AA holders for the middle one (the 2 18650's) and hot glued those in.

PS: I have wanted to do some VV stuff. Just dont like boosters, or running 2 or more lithiums in series.

 

[emus]

Thanks.
I'll try 18mm 18350 first since I have those.
I have some 3amp micro switches w/ similar form factor as yours; lot of miles and never had a failure.

Funny thing about my VV is I tuned mine to 3.7 volts; more than 4v just to harsh for me.
I could mix a weaker juice and vape at higher volts.
I put a heat sink on the regulator because it gets hot; translates to wasted power.
VV vapes extremely consistent from start to finish.
VV Switching is also extremely consistent unlike mechanical switches that can oxidize.

I have IMR and Li-Ion protected.
I'm not worried about explosion because Altoid box is like a rupture disc; not a pipe.
If protection circuit works batt will shut down before over draining.
Batt will likely get hot prior to venting; does not help if on desk though.
I always charge batts in a deep metal pan.
With the Altoid mod I think the worst case is fire instead of shrapnel.

 

[Ever1ast]

I enjoy making them myself, and they are real conversation starters.

Cheers

PS: The mini Altoid tins make great carriers for extra cartos.

You just had to post this....

You make it look simple enough that now I want to try making my own mod lol. Dangit, just what I need...ANOTHER hobby Well Ralph if you feel like taking some pics and posting a how-to next time you make one, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it

 

[Ralph T]

You just had to post this....

You make it look simple enough that now I want to try making my own mod lol. Dangit, just what I need...ANOTHER hobby Well Ralph if you feel like taking some pics and posting a how-to next time you make one, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it

I will try and do that next time round, may be awhile though. They are dirt simple to make. But there are some tricky parts. Putting holes in a tin box is, well, tedious at best. An awl, T reamer, dremel tool and patience are required. Mounting the switches is also a bit of a trick. On the earlier ones I ran the screws right thru the side of the box. The later ones I used custom mounting brackets epoxied to the inside of the box, a much cleaner look, but harder to make.

 

[CraigHB]

Nice looking box mods there Ralph T.

Is the math really that hard that a chart is required? As already mentioned, other factors are going to come into play as well.

Voltage sag is going to come heavily into play. For a good example, a mod like The Puck can sag as much as a volt under load. Since power is proportional to the square of the voltage, that makes a big difference. Actual wattage is going to be quite different than that calculated from the nominal 1.2V per cell.

There's also what you use to atomize your juice. Pretty sure you're going to see a big difference in something like a 510 atomizer versus a cartomizer even at the same wattage. Differences are even more apparent for something like a dual coil carto.

Wattage is a useful gauge, but it's not going to be the end-all measurement of vaping performance. It gives you a good idea though. Whatever you use to atomize your juice, you know there's going to be a big difference between say, 5W and 8W.

As far as wattage versus voltage control in a mod, I can see the benefit of wattage control, but voltage control just seems more conventional. I'm actually working on a mod right now that will have the current sensing required for wattage control, but I'm still going to use voltage control.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Is the math really that hard that a chart is required? As already mentioned, other factors are going to come into play as well.

Voltage sag is going to come heavily into play. For a good example, a mod like The Puck can sag as much as a volt under load. Since power is proportional to the square of the voltage, that makes a big difference. Actual wattage is going to be quite different than that calculated from the nominal 1.2V per cell.

There's also what you use to atomize your juice. Pretty sure you're going to see a big difference in something like a 510 atomizer versus a cartomizer even at the same wattage. Differences are even more apparent for something like a dual coil carto.

Wattage is a useful gauge, but it's not going to be the end-all measurement of vaping performance. It gives you a good idea though. Whatever you use to atomize your juice, you know there's going to be a big difference between say, 5W and 8W.

As far as wattage versus voltage control in a mod, I can see the benefit of wattage control, but voltage control just seems more conventional. I'm actually working on a mod right now that will have the current sensing required for wattage control, but I'm still going to use voltage control.

For some people the Math isn’t hard on this level. For others it is.

I think the chart is a good reference for the average vaper to get a “starting point”.

As you mentioned, there are other factors that make the pure Watts = ((Volts)^2)/Ohms) formula not and “End All, Be All” determinate of the system. But is an in-depth numerical analysis of Differential Power per unit time needed or does it become more of an academic exercise?

I think what most VVPV users want is a Reference number in Watts so they can screw on a Atty/Carto and know about where to set their Voltage Without torching their e-Liquid. The chart, or the Math, yields this.

BTW – Are you familiar with Kirchhoff's Circuit Laws?

 

[Ever1ast]

Is the math really that hard that a chart is required?

For someone with no backround or training in this field whatsoever? Yes. I realize this is the modders forum, so there will be some in here that "get it". But Ralph's chart is a great visual aid for those of us without the engineering degree that are trying to comprehend this for the first time.

 

[CraigHB]

For someone with no backround or training in this field whatsoever? Yes. I realize this is the modders forum, so there will be some in here that "get it". But Ralph's chart is a great visual aid for those of us without the engineering degree that are trying to comprehend this for the first time.

Hardly need an engineering degree to mulitply voltage twice and divide by resistance. Every now and then I might multiply current twice with resistance. Most people have a calculator sitting on their desk. Sorry, I just don't see the need for a chart. Reminds of the times tables charts you'd see on the wall in the first grade.

Are you familiar with Kirchhoff's Circuit Laws?

Yes, but I haven't done nodal analysis by hand since college decades ago. I've always used circuit simulation for that stuff. Not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Ever1ast]

Hardly need an engineering degree to mulitply voltage twice and divide by resistance. Every now and then I might multiply current twice with resistance. Most people have a calculator sitting on their desk. Sorry, I just don't see the need for a chart. Reminds of the times tables charts you'd see on the wall in the first grade.

Really? I'm sorry too. Because I don't see the need to troll the forums looking for a chance to flout my intellectual superiority, but apparently you do. Hey Craig....you want to compare slide rules? I bet mine's bigger than yours...

First grade my ........Now if you don't mind, how about taking a hike. Some of us are actually following this thread to learn something, not just to listen to your self inflated opinion of your IQ.

 

[zoiDman]

...
Yes, but I haven't done nodal analysis by hand since college decades ago. I've always used circuit simulation for that stuff. Not sure what you're getting at.

Yeah... I figured you might have although it might have been awhile back.

This might jog your memory a bit...

Now 6.6.2 isn't a bad 2nd Order Differential Equation. In fact it is somewhat tame in comparison to most. It's just a simple text book problem. But a Dif-Eq all the same.

So do we solve plug in the values and attempt to solve it? Might need to brush up on our Dif-Eq techniques and perhaps a little Calculus refresher involving Integration. Or do we use a Software tool to do the Simulation?

Most would choose the Software. Why? Because it simplifies the Math involved.

That is what the Chart is. It's a tool that simplify the Math. A person can do a quick look up of Watts or do a "What If" volt question quickly.

I'm not sure why it is ok for You to use a piece of software to accomplish some task where as it is not ok for Others to use a chart to accomplish theirs?

You may see it as "Times Table Charts" on a classroom wall. Some see doing Circuit Simulation/Numerical Approximations using Software and not obtaining Closed Form Answers as the same thing.

I guess it is just a perspective thing. Or a lack of perspective thing.

 

[KTaylor]

Awsome...Thanks again Ralph!! Just ordered my Provari...this will help greatly!

 

[Ralph T]

I found it useful when I first made it, and thought others might get something out of it. Useful for seeing what happens when you go from a 3 ohm carto to a 2.5 ohm one. Or what happens when you move your 510 atty from that 3.7 volt mod to a 5V passthru. Mostly useful for comparison.

Voltage sag is indeed a big issue. The smaller the battery, the bigger the issue. I will post some numbers and an explanation of battery internal resistance when I get a chance, perhaps in a different thread. I need to see if someone else has already addressed this.

Then again, this really isn't much fun any more.

 

[zoiDman]

I found it useful when I first made it, and thought others might get something out of it. Useful for seeing what happens when you go from a 3 ohm carto to a 2.5 ohm one. Or what happens when you move your 510 atty from that 3.7 volt mod to a 5V passthru. Mostly useful for comparison.
...

I personally would like to see the Watt/Volt/Ohm Chart made sticky.

This thread has more than 6,000 views. I know there is a lot of people have saved it and will use it.

And that's what the ECF is Really about.

Thank you Ralph.

 

[Ralph T]

I personally would like to see the Watt/Volt/Ohm Chart made sticky.

This thread has more than 6,000 views. I know there is a lot of people have saved it and will use it.

And that's what the ECF is Really about.

Thank you Ralph.

Thanks zoidMan. That IS the spirit of ECF.... sharing with folks of all walks.

 

[emus]

The real beauty of this hobbit (hobby/habit) we call vaping is the ability to find out what works for us. I think devices like the Darwin are way cool!!! For me, I like to build simple things that will last a long time. So, I have been making Altoid mods. It's simple, sturdy, reliable, off the shelf parts, self contained (can hold extra cartos), and long lasting between charges.

First one I made was double barrel. (4) 14500's in parallel. Can do two 510 dual coil cartos at once, hits like a freaking mule. Too much really... A single carto works great. Lasts me three days between charges (using one dual coil carto).

Second one was made for the extended outing. Both a 510 and an 808 connector for versatility. Two 18650's in parallel. 5 days easy, and plenty of room for extra cartos on the inside. A self contained vaping machine.

Now, I just make these for friends. (4) AA NiMh, Pre-charged Rechargeables in series. Not counting batteries, about $15 in parts. Can get the batteries anywhere. Holds two spare cartos on the end opposite of the atty connector. Good for about a day and a half between charges. In an emergency you can find AA batteries anywhere, so that is a plus, and no inherent safety problems of the Li Ion batteries. A safer mod.

All of these use a simple RS 5 ampere switch with a tactile (clicky) feel. I haven't lost one yet.

I enjoy making them myself, and they are real conversation starters.

Cheers

PS: The mini Altoid tins make great carriers for extra cartos.

Thanks.
Your pics gave me inspiration to build an Altoids mod.
I really like it.