LR atty vs HV atty: Surface area and Watts?
- Thread starter Stinky Uncle Ed
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At this point just get one of these and supply the whole house
Foggers
Just kidding around trying to be funny.
I've heard 3 coil setups are out there already. I'm happy with 1 still myself
Ooops, I mean to say 6 coil...
Understand. Not much else to do.
The Russian Forum "Russian Babes on tractors" doesn't seem to be up tonight"
(I'm a regular there).
The Twice Pipes Box Mod is only 3.7 volt (26650). It wouldn't drive triple coils very well.
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Well I learned a bit from this thread. For the record, my standard and LR Joye atties are close to being retired. In a few weeks, a HV Joye atty will be joining them. At that point I am going to take it upon myself to disect all 3 and measure diameter and lengths of the coils and post up some pictures. I will also host these pictures in a way that they can easily be stumbled upon on google images, since I was not able to find a good comparison shot of heating coils for different resistance atties.
Stinky
Stinky
Good show Stinky, looking forward to your results.
Take a thought to bed with you:
Learn one little something every day of your life.
It's will add up to a big something one day
Take a thought to bed with you:
Learn one little something every day of your life.
It's will add up to a big something one day
Again, altitude, atmospheric pressure, and humidity makes a difference in which might work better for you.
Also prefs in PG vs VG mixes, and to some degree even things like sweeteners and flavors you prefer.
Case in point...I love my Giantomizer's here in Mississippi.
Took a trip up to Atlanta...I had to crank the voltage up quite a bit from my normal sweet spot to get anything close to the same performance. I thought the carto was dying.
Got home to MS, and had to crank it back down again.
That's not a 'major' change in altitude, but enough to change the recipe for my sweet spot.
Also prefs in PG vs VG mixes, and to some degree even things like sweeteners and flavors you prefer.
Case in point...I love my Giantomizer's here in Mississippi.
Took a trip up to Atlanta...I had to crank the voltage up quite a bit from my normal sweet spot to get anything close to the same performance. I thought the carto was dying.
Got home to MS, and had to crank it back down again.
That's not a 'major' change in altitude, but enough to change the recipe for my sweet spot.
How about a sealed coil above the battery that heats the coil in they atty by induction? The sealed one is a longlife setup, the atty coil has typical lifespan....
ACK!!! and to make it worse...another variable to vapor production is airflow...I consistently vape my tobacco juices at 5-7v on DC cartos...The difference likely between me getting a good vape from them at that High a wattage is I drilled a hole in the side of the battery connector then placed a drip shield/catch cup around it...I fill my cartos to the point a small amount goes thru the hole and into the cup...It has an airy draw but at that point I can take a 1-2 second draw and have a small cloud as a result...and No I don't have ant burnt taste with those juices...but I do take a short draw too...
This type of interaction is why I like the modders forum...Questions and answers posed in such a way could lead to the next breakthru in PV tech...
on a side note the sealed coil Idea has been tried with many failures and no sucesses to my knowledge...I'll dig up the threads and post links if anyone is interested...but they are in the atty mods section...induction is also pretty lossy so some killer batts would only last half as long...
This type of interaction is why I like the modders forum...Questions and answers posed in such a way could lead to the next breakthru in PV tech...
on a side note the sealed coil Idea has been tried with many failures and no sucesses to my knowledge...I'll dig up the threads and post links if anyone is interested...but they are in the atty mods section...induction is also pretty lossy so some killer batts would only last half as long...
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Well, I am running my low resistance, regular and high voltage Joye 510 atomizers with their wicks and bridges removed. I'm not going to destroy them just yet to take true measurements and good photos, but based on what I can see with my eyes and a flashlight, the coils of them respectively measure:
1.6ohm LR: 6 windings with 1mm diameter loops
2.3ohm Regular: 10 windings with 1mm diameter loops
4.65ohm HV: 10 windings with 2mm diameter loops
If I make a quick calculation on surface area proportions, then they are in a ratio of 6:10:20
Taking into account watts, the LR atty consumes 8.55 watts on a 3.7 volt battery with a little less than two-thirds the surface area of the regular atty's coil which is drawing 5.95 watts at 3.7 volts. Therefore the LR atty is much hotter; alot more wattage is going through a smaller coil. Burnt juice anyone?
The HV atty is drawing 11.78 watts at 7.4 volts (Two 3.7 volt batteries in series) but all in all, is drawing about twice the wattage across twice the area as compared to the regular atty; and as a result is producing twice the vapor at the same level of heat. It is a vapor machine in my testing right now, and not tasting burnt like the LR atty does.
Of course I am not taking into account coil materials possibly being different, as well as the fact that these aren't the true measurements of the coils, I am just judging by eyesight for now, but I am pretty confident right now in a positive correlation between resistance and surface area.
Stinky
1.6ohm LR: 6 windings with 1mm diameter loops
2.3ohm Regular: 10 windings with 1mm diameter loops
4.65ohm HV: 10 windings with 2mm diameter loops
If I make a quick calculation on surface area proportions, then they are in a ratio of 6:10:20
Taking into account watts, the LR atty consumes 8.55 watts on a 3.7 volt battery with a little less than two-thirds the surface area of the regular atty's coil which is drawing 5.95 watts at 3.7 volts. Therefore the LR atty is much hotter; alot more wattage is going through a smaller coil. Burnt juice anyone?
The HV atty is drawing 11.78 watts at 7.4 volts (Two 3.7 volt batteries in series) but all in all, is drawing about twice the wattage across twice the area as compared to the regular atty; and as a result is producing twice the vapor at the same level of heat. It is a vapor machine in my testing right now, and not tasting burnt like the LR atty does.
Of course I am not taking into account coil materials possibly being different, as well as the fact that these aren't the true measurements of the coils, I am just judging by eyesight for now, but I am pretty confident right now in a positive correlation between resistance and surface area.
Stinky
Very nice thread, Stinky! I gotta say... that 'quick calculation' of 6:10:20 surface areas sure does approximately resemble the 1.6:2.3:4.65 ohm ratings. Perhaps the resistance wires used aren't all that different.
This thread has me thinking more about a super-mod I've been dreaming of lately. It would need to sense the current boiling point of the e-liquid being used (would need to be updated at regular intervals in case of atmospheric changes). The mod would then need to regulate the surface temperature of the heating coil based upon the e-liquid's boiling point, perhaps giving a boosted voltage at the onset of applied power with an algorithmic decrease to maintain the perfect temp over the length of the draw (all the while keeping tabs on airflow and ambient temperature).
Doable?
just realized the answer: nanobots!
This thread has me thinking more about a super-mod I've been dreaming of lately. It would need to sense the current boiling point of the e-liquid being used (would need to be updated at regular intervals in case of atmospheric changes). The mod would then need to regulate the surface temperature of the heating coil based upon the e-liquid's boiling point, perhaps giving a boosted voltage at the onset of applied power with an algorithmic decrease to maintain the perfect temp over the length of the draw (all the while keeping tabs on airflow and ambient temperature).
Doable?
just realized the answer: nanobots!
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It is my experience that watts has everything to do with heat. I can put in any atty and get the same heat, what changes is how much vapor, and how much amperage it took to get there. I'm running my own creation, that takes 2 days to solder up with all the surface mount components, including an LCD display, and I've spent 100's of hours programming it. So I know exactly what's going on when I vape. On my setup, everything so far has been a winner. I currently have a 3.2 ohm atty that's getting a serious workout. I've built a new box (still drying) that will allow me to run a big dual cartomizer. Can't wait to try that out. As far as power, I can go until the solder melts if I want. Yikes!!!
As far as multiple ohm rated coils. That is completly pointless. Why? The path of least resistance. One of the coils will be drawing power without producing, while the other may be burning juice. So a great atty, is one that sports closely matched coils.
OK now for the reason why a dual coil can be a good idea. Simple, it can handle more amps because the wire is shorter. But it still has the surface area because there is more than one.
What else I know, there is a limit as to how much a battery or batteries can put out (amperage). So going outside of that range is kind of senseless.
I also know, NEVER run out of juice on my setup. The burn is unreal.
FYI The perfect vape puts out TONS of vapor. I get this on every hit regardless of atmospheric pressure, temperature, humidity, etc. On single battery simple mods I have noticed that there can be a difference though.
For a damn good setup, run 5 volts on a 3.2 ohm atty. This will get you 90% there.
As far as multiple ohm rated coils. That is completly pointless. Why? The path of least resistance. One of the coils will be drawing power without producing, while the other may be burning juice. So a great atty, is one that sports closely matched coils.
OK now for the reason why a dual coil can be a good idea. Simple, it can handle more amps because the wire is shorter. But it still has the surface area because there is more than one.
What else I know, there is a limit as to how much a battery or batteries can put out (amperage). So going outside of that range is kind of senseless.
I also know, NEVER run out of juice on my setup. The burn is unreal.
FYI The perfect vape puts out TONS of vapor.
I get this on every hit regardless of atmospheric pressure, temperature, humidity, etc. On single battery simple mods I have noticed that there can be a difference though.For a damn good setup, run 5 volts on a 3.2 ohm atty. This will get you 90% there.
I like 3 ohms at 5V a lot, it's mainly what I vape at. Though, I would like to get a hold of a good dual barrel setup. I've found multiple coils in one carto make vapors too hot for me. My theory is that multiple coils act like a furnace progressively heating the vapors as they pass over each coil. With two individual cartos, I can get more vapor without more heat even though wattage doubles. That wattage goes purely into making more vapor, not more heat. I just don't have good setup to use something like that regularly. Putting two cartos in your mouth is uncomfortable.
I figured. I was kind of waiting For my box to be complete, but... OK, I'll post a few shots tonight.
Cheers Air, I'm not giving you a hard time, but pics are always welcomed.
+1 for the 3Ω @5v with more surface area.
+1 for the 3Ω @5v with more surface area.
Wow...so am I just a glutton for lung punishment? 2.5-2.8ohms @ 5.7v for me. I just don't get enough out of 3ohms @ 5v.
Every setup is different. There is the very real possibility that your not getting all of the amperage required to get the full vape out of 5V, so you compensate by higher voltage. I don't know everything, and everybody is different. So are batteries, wires connections, firing buttons, etc. I can tell you that 2.5 -2.8 ohms at 5.7V is a VERY HOT setup if your getting the full current. Too high for my comfort. That shows a 2.5 ohm atty is 2.28 A @ 13 watts. With 2.8ohm at 5.7V = 2A @ 11.6 watts. I'm have no doubt on your setup that is the sweet spot. I'll have to try that setting on mine, I have a 2.5 ohm atty here somewhere. I'm thinking that it might blow the atty within the first couple of milliseconds though.
FYI on a 3.2 ohm with my setup at ~5v I would choke out a smoker in a smoking room. TONS and TONS of vapor. LOL
So how much vapor are you getting?
I took a few pictures, and will try to get them posted within the next couple of hours.
I get TONS of vapor. I am using a Provari, so I know that 5.7v is the loaded voltage, and the atty I am currently using shows 2.5ohms.
I of course have to keep the atty wet. A dry hit at that wattage tastes awful. Luckily the Provari usually pops up an E2 error on a dry hit, so I know not to inhale. (I draw the vapor into my mouth, then inhale.)
I of course have to keep the atty wet. A dry hit at that wattage tastes awful. Luckily the Provari usually pops up an E2 error on a dry hit, so I know not to inhale. (I draw the vapor into my mouth, then inhale.)
Yes that is a great setup. There is still the possibility that the battery contacts or batteries themselves could use a cleaning. Or that the atty has a buildup on the outside of the coil. But TONs of vapor is so awesome. My lungs would fail if I ever took a dry hit straight to the lungs. So I also always draw the vapor into my mouth first.
The screen on my laptop gets blacked out with my vapor for a couple of seconds.
I'll post a new thread on my project so I don't hijack this one.
The screen on my laptop gets blacked out with my vapor for a couple of seconds.
I'll post a new thread on my project so I don't hijack this one.
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