California Prop 56 - Hidden Vape Tax

[Katya]

I'll admit I got caught up in the alliteration though I wasn't picturing animals when I wrote it.

Just yanking your chain--to stay with the analogy.

It just seems to me that we(general we, not specifically us) have always been jumping at the chance to "compromise" even though we've never been offered anything in return.

I know how you feel. I believe that compromise is not necessarily a bad thing. Actually, a good compromise is a often a good thing. I'm one of those who'd rather pay a bit more for my vaping stuff than have it all banned altogether. What I object to is the amount of taxes this state is proposing--that's just highway robbery.

 

[Ca Ike]

I was talking to my fave local vape shop and what they are talking about is dropping the 15ml and going with 30ml as the smallest size and rolling the tax into the price to keep the increase to their customers as low as possible. They also make their own juice lines so they wholesale to their own shops. I'll be watching them and I'll post back when it all plays out and I can see what the increase is over what I pay now.

 

[DC2]

We accept the leash in the hopes of avoiding the lash, all the while forgetting we once were free.

That's exactly how they do it.

As a dog person, I strongly object to this analogy. Every dog I knew loved his/her leash because a leash means a walk!

As a horse woman, well, that's a different story. I loved my horses to death, but I was never convinced that they loved me back and actually enjoyed having me on their backs. I have a feeling that horses do remember being free...

Our new dog that we have had for three weeks jumped out the window of my car this morning.
It was as we were pulling into the driveway after going to McDonalds.

She saw a bunny and she was off and running.
Good thing we live in a gated community.

She was a rescue, who had mange and tapeworms according to the vet papers we got.
She was living in the streets and was used to a freedom she no longer has.

I hope she likes it better now.
We'll do all we can to help her feel that way.

 

[zoiDman]

I know how you feel. I believe that compromise is not necessarily a bad thing. Actually, a good compromise is a often a good thing. ...

Today, in Federal Politics, was a Good Example of what happens when No Compromise can be Reached.

 

[Lessifer]

Today, in Federal Politics, was a Good Example of what happens when No Compromise can be Reached.

True, it's also a good example of what can happen when one group is ignored in favor of another. Not going into whether or not I agree with anything that happened in the capital today. Concessions were made to one group, and another group who seemed to not really have a seat at the table flexed their muscles and made the administration pay attention.

 

[zoiDman]

True, it's also a good example of what can happen when one group is ignored in favor of another. Not going into whether or not I agree with anything that happened in the capital today. Concessions were made to one group, and another group who seemed to not really have a seat at the table flexed their muscles and made the administration pay attention.

Yeah.

And the End Result was... Nothing. Doesn't seem like Anyone won.

 

[Lessifer]

Yeah.

And the End Result was... Nothing. Doesn't seem like Anyone won.

I kind of feel like America won a bit today, or at least we didn't lose like we could have...

 

[zoiDman]

I kind of feel like America won a bit today, or at least we didn't lose like we could have...

Guess it all get's down to your Perspective on the Affordable Care Act. Which is a Topic better suited to the OUTSIDE.

But the Example remains. When fractions within the Republican Party couldn't compromise, then they ALL got Nothing.

Which get's back to the Original concept I replied to. That Compromise can sometimes be a Good Thing. Because sometimes when your search is for Perfect, Perfect can Become the Enemy of Good.

 

[Lessifer]

Guess it all get's down to your Perspective on the Affordable Care Act. Which is a Topic better suited to the OUTSIDE.

But the Example remains. When fractions within the Republican Party couldn't compromise, then they ALL got Nothing.

Which get's back to the Original concept I replied to. That Compromise can sometimes be a Good Thing. Because sometimes when your search is for Perfect, Perfect can Become the Enemy of Good.

I've never been opposed to compromise, but IMO the vape community has never had the opportunity to compromise, because we've never had a seat at the table.

In this particular example, you see it as everyone involved lost. I see it as they all dislike A, for various reasons, they all dislike B for various reasons, no one thought B was better than A, so they stuck with A.

 

[zoiDman]

...

In this particular example, you see it as everyone involved lost. ...

I Didn't say that Les.

I said ALL Republican Reps ( and by virtue of their actions, Senators) Lost.

 

[Lessifer]

ALL Republican Reps ( and by virtue of their actions, Senators) Lost.

that's what I meant by everyone involved.

 

[zoiDman]

that's what I meant by everyone involved.

Then it sounds like we are Both on the same Page of the No One (Republican Reps/Senators. And for that mater, the White House) Won thing.

 

[Lessifer]

Then it sounds like we are Both on the same Page of the No One (Republican Reps/Senators. And for that mater, the White House) Won thing.

I think not enacting legislation that most of them didn't really want as a win, or as close to a win as could have occurred today with the options available.

 

[zoiDman]

I think not enacting legislation that most of them didn't really want as a win, or as close to a win as could have occurred today with the options available.

If you had wanted Change, and saw what was on the House Floor as being Better than what was in Place (which all but a Very Few did - But Not Everything you wanted) then it would be Very Hard to view yesterday as a Win. Because Nothing has Changed.

Like I said Originally, yesterday was a Good Example of how the Inability to Compromise caused No One (who Wanted Change) to get Anything they wanted.

There is No One-Size-that-Fits-All in this case.

 

[Katya]

If you had wanted Change, and saw what was on the House Floor as being Better than what was in Place (which all but a Very Few did - But Not Everything you wanted) then it would be Very Hard to view yesterday as a Win. Because Nothing has Changed.

I didn't see the house bill as being better. I agree with Krauthammer--forget the procedural nonsense, three buckets, we'll fix it later, etc. Write a good bill that has everything in it that people want and will support: tort reform, the ability to purchase insurance across state lines, health co-ops, health savings accounts and so on. Pass the bill in the house and send it to the senate and let them deal with it. That's the only way.

 

[zoiDman]

I didn't see the house bill as being better. I agree with Krauthammer--forget the procedural nonsense, three buckets, we'll fix it later, etc. Write a good bill that has everything in it that people want and will support: tort reform, the ability to purchase insurance across state lines, health co-ops, health savings accounts and so on. Pass the bill in the house and send it to the senate and let them deal with it. That's the only way.

But isn't the Real Problem? And why it is such a Good Example of when a Compromise is Needed?

Because How can I write a Bill that has Deep Spending Cuts to satisfy the person on one side of Me, but a Also Include the Same amount of Coverage at the Same or Lower Premium to satisfy the person on the other side of me?

 

[Rossum]

Because How can I write a Bill that has Deep Spending Cuts to satisfy the person on one side of Me, but a Also Include the Same amount of Coverage at the Same or Lower Premium to satisfy the person on the other side of me?

A bill that would accomplish both of these things would fit on one page. But it would cause an instant, deep recession, which is why nobody is willing to even propose it.

 

[Katya]

But isn't the Real Problem? And why it is such a Good Example of when a Compromise is Needed?

Because How can I write a Bill that has Deep Spending Cuts to satisfy the person on one side of Me, but a Also Include the Same amount of Coverage at the Same or Lower Premium to satisfy the person on the other side of me?

We have two parties. One destroys things and the other is worthless. Pick your poison.


"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

GEORGE WASHINGTON, Farewell Address, Sep. 17, 1796

Other than that, we're veering away from the topic of this thread, so I'm not going to continue lest we get in trouble. But there are many, relatively simple, common sense solutions that could be implemented NOW to start fixing this mess.

 

[Lessifer]

Anyone know any CA retailers that are preparing for this? They have to pay a floor tax right?

 

[Katya]

Anyone know any CA retailers that are preparing for this? They have to pay a floor tax right?

Sorry, no clue. I haven't been to a vape shop in a while and I haven't received any emails from any CA based online vendors.