Dozens of "Coming Soon" Pre Order Items?

[jambi]

So, I thought the market was locked to new products after Aug. 8, yet on one vendor's site their pre-order page is showing dozens of new items. Coming Soon / Pre-Order - New Arrivals

Do I not understand how all this is supposed to work?

 

[Ed_C]

Items may have been out in limited supply? That or someone is just ignoring the new rules.

 

[VapePassion]

There are at least three reasons:

1.) The FDA has no control over other countries. Manufacturers can still sell new products to people who live outside of the U.S.

2.) Many products were soft launched and technically on the market before Aug. 8th. These companies are releasing them over the course of the next few months.

3.) Companies don't care.

 

[Eskie]

I would go with #2, soft launches to establish pre 8/8 marketing. While it doesn't appear customs is doing much in relation to individual purchases, I doubt any distributor or large vendor wants to risk a hundred (or likely much more) unit wholesale order of say Kanger stuff seized on arrival on US shores without at least some recourse to appeal such an action.

 

[Talen]

there is another reason...deeming regulations or not the FDA has absolutely no authority over electronic devices. They can claim they do but they absolutely don't and this boundary is going to get pushed extremely hard.

 

[Eskie]

So you're saying the 499 pages concerning regulation of ENDS is unenforceable by the FDA? Do you have a link to that interpretation somewhere? Because the way it's written they are regulating them, and no court has yet to rule otherwise.

 

[retired1]

there is another reason...deeming regulations or not the FDA has absolutely no authority over electronic devices. They can claim they do but they absolutely don't and this boundary is going to get pushed extremely hard.

Not only has the FDA asserted authority over the devices themselves, they've also asserted control over the internal chips and software for those mods. And until a court rules otherwise, those are the facts of life for now.

 

[sofarsogood]

there is another reason...deeming regulations or not the FDA has absolutely no authority over electronic devices. They can claim they do but they absolutely don't and this boundary is going to get pushed extremely hard.

My fasttech packages are marked as "electronic gadgets" or something like that. There is no separate import classification for ecig products but there may be a classification for things regulated by the FDA and may be that will be indicated on future FT packages.

Even with that allowing old products while banning new products seems nightmarish in customs unless off shore vendors comply voluntarily. And how do vendors know unless manufacturers inform them of what's old or new for the US. It's hard to imagine customs opening packages for this purpose. Who supplies the list? Time will tell.[/QUOTE]

 

[Talen]

Not only has the FDA asserted authority over the devices themselves, they've also asserted control over the internal chips and software for those mods. And until a court rules otherwise, those are the facts of life for now.

They have no authority legally to ban any electronic device because they believe it's tobacco related because then they could easily claim that toasters fall under their domain and laptop computers, which by the way would fall under their deeming rules if software is used to update a device. The government tried this before when they banned something else and tried to ban the sale of the objects used in conjunction with it...didn't work then and it won't work now. The only thing the FDA can actually control is the liquids we vape. You'll continue to see new devices hit the market and if the FDA tries to seize anything they will get sued and lose.

 

[retired1]

FDA has already submitted guidance for customs.

Entry Submission Process

Basically, ANY e-cigarette related shipment must be accompanied by the required paperwork or it risks being seized by customs.

 

[retired1]

They have no authority legally to ban any electronic device because they believe it's tobacco related because then they could easily claim that toasters fall under their domain and laptop computers, which by the way would fall under their deeming rules if software is used to update a device. The government tried this before when they banned something else and tried to ban the sale of the objects used in conjunction with it...didn't work then and it won't work now. The only thing the FDA can actually control is the liquids we vape. You'll continue to see new devices hit the market and if the FDA tries to seize anything they will get sued and lose.

Until a court rules otherwise, this is nothing more than pure conjecture.

 

[retired1]

To expand on the FDAs reasoning behind their regulations.

When they lost the court case back in 2009 (and the subsequent appeal in 2010), the court told the FDA that they could not regulate e-cigarettes under the drug classification, but they COULD regulate them under the tobacco classifications.

FDA Loses Appeal, Can’t Regulate E-Cigarettes as Drug

So while there is hope with the current crop of lawsuits against the FDA, because of the previous rulings, we stand a good chance of losing if the court bases part of their decision on prior rulings.

 

[sofarsogood]

They have no authority legally to ban any electronic device because they believe it's tobacco related because then they could easily claim that toasters fall under their domain and laptop computers, which by the way would fall under their deeming rules if software is used to update a device. The government tried this before when they banned something else and tried to ban the sale of the objects used in conjunction with it...didn't work then and it won't work now. The only thing the FDA can actually control is the liquids we vape. You'll continue to see new devices hit the market and if the FDA tries to seize anything they will get sued and lose.

It would be great if you are right. Do you have any evidence? If the only thing we need to stockpile is nic things wil be a lot simpler.

I'm going to keep a 10 year supply of vape specific items no matter what happens. So many government entities have interests to protect we'll probably never hear the end of it. The lion's share of $1 trillion dollars a year goes for tobacco taxes. Ecigs can end all that. The people who get that money won't give up easily

 

[Talen]

It would be great if you are right. Do you have any evidence? If the only thing we need to stockpile is nic things wil be a lot simpler.

Deeming regulations aren't law and can't outright ban or make devices illegal only congress can do that. Will they try and ban devices, absolutely and they will lose just as another government agency did when they tried the same thing banning devices used for another activity that was illegal under our laws. Because these devices were not illegal under any law they had no choice but to permit them. It still caused an uproar for a while and some people were even jailed but in the end nothing they could do.

I said in an earlier thread there is an easy way for brand new device to be released every minute of the day and nothing the FDA can do aabout it...they just need to change the name from vaporizer to vv/vw personal flashlight and we'll all be collecting new flashlights.

 

[sparkky1]

Only had to produce a PO / bill of sale on or before 8/8 of said device / juice, never said how many or to who to be in compliance.Soft launches are in compliance and the manufactures can then legally hold back and release at their leisure. As long as you can show the date of sale they will go through ...............

 

[sparkky1]

Deeming regulations aren't law and can't outright ban or make devices illegal only congress can do that. Will they try and ban devices, absolutely and they will lose just as another government agency did when they tried the same thing banning devices used for another activity that was illegal under our laws. Because these devices were not illegal under any law they had no choice but to permit them. It still caused an uproar for a while and some people were even jailed but in the end nothing they could do.

I said in an earlier thread there is an easy way for brand new device to be released every minute of the day and nothing the FDA can do aabout it...they just need to change the name from vaporizer to vv/vw personal flashlight and we'll all be collecting new flashlights.

You might need to read this Tobacco Control Act

 

[retired1]

Deeming regulations aren't law and can't outright ban or make devices illegal only congress can do that.

Congress already gave them the authority to do so. Your reasoning is based on a false premise.

You might need to read this Tobacco Control Act

Exactly.

 

[Talen]

Congress already gave them the authority to do so. Your reasoning is based on a false premise

Exactly.

Last I checked neither congress or any other government entity has given anyone authority to regulate a variable voltage/variable wattage battery pack - if I'm wrong please show me where they have.

 

[Talen]

This is not a tobacco product, it is neither made of tobacco nor does it use tobacco -. It's an electronic device that uses batteries.

 

[zoiDman]

So, I thought the market was locked to new products after Aug. 8, yet on one vendor's site their pre-order page is showing dozens of new items. Coming Soon / Pre-Order - New Arrivals

Do I not understand how all this is supposed to work?

As an OEM, even going by the FDA's Overreaching and Ridiculous definition of a Tobacco Product, as long as I have 1 Verifiable Sale in a US Market that occurred before Aug 8th 2016, my "Tobacco Product" is NOT a New Tobacco Product.

So it would Not fall under FDA PMTA Restrictions... Yet.

So I can do 1 Sale, and then sit back and gear up Production on an Item, then Release it at a Time that is Best for Me. And that might be in 3 Months.

There is also that Entire FDA "Intended Use" BS. Which is being Challenged. Which it Should.