Electronic Cigarettes: The Bad, The Ugly, The Truth

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chainvapor

Moved On
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Mar 3, 2010
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Hello All. I am printing and mailing a copy of the petition Kristin has on her website to the so-called doctor who wrote the article at the beginning of this thread. I also wrote this at the end.....

Thank you for reading this. I hope it can open your eyes to the actual FACTS and not all the FDA information that is based on 1 test of 20 prefilled nicotine juice cartridges from 1 Chinese Vendor. And only 1 of the 20 cartidges tested contained any amount of diethylene glycol-antifreeze which was such a small percentage you would have to drink at least 5,000 liters of that nicotine juice in 1 day just to get sick from it. Please I BEG YOU to do some REAL research before spewing lies that will cost smokers there lives!!

Kindest Regards,
John Smith
Kodak, TN
(555) 555-5555

P.S. One other thing, All electronic cigarette vendors I have seen on the internet warn against entering their site unless you are 18 years of age or older, ( and I have seen at least 50 websites selling electronic cigarettes ) and not even 1 of them says that electronic cigarettes are a "safe alternative" they say it is a "SAFER Alternative". There is a huge difference there! No one I ever have talked to about electronic cigarettes has said it was "safe" just "safer" than traditional tobacco cigarettes. If you cannot agree with that, you need to re-think your profession. I think your villifying of the electronic cigarette industry with no REAL research into the subject is borderline CRIMINAL.
Anyway, thought you all would like to read this. I will be sending it out in the mail tomorrow along with the information in the petition. If anyone else is interested in using up a couple stamps for the cause, here is the address of the doctors place of employment.........

Emerald Coast Research Associates
221 East 23rd Street Suite B
Panama City, FL 32405 USA


Thanks, CV
Happy Vaping Everyone!! :laugh::laugh:
 

chainvapor

Moved On
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Mar 3, 2010
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By the way, after reading this thread, I have decided that the Doctors of this country can be our greatest ally in stopping the ban on ecigs or our largest threat in promoting the ban of ecigs. I believe their words will hold the most weight when it comes down to the facts. So please inform all doctors of this atrocity! They need to understand that while nicotine is addictive, it is not nearly as harmful as the smoke people are inhaling from traditional cigarettes.

THANKS!
 

yvilla

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On the asthma inhaler question. Yes, there are many that do not currently use PG. But some still do. Here's one, called Aerobid in the US:

Medications

And here's a non-inhaler, oral asthma medication, Albuterol Syrup, that uses PG:

Albuterol Syrup Official FDA information, side effects and uses.

And here's a non-traditional asthma medication called Neumactil, that is promoted as safer for children than "dangerous" prescription medications and inhalers (;)), that uses PG:

More About Neumactil (Stop Children's Asthma Attacks )
 

D103

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Kristin, I was going off an article I found in EHow: Danger of Inhaling Propylene Glycol where the author-Bud Maxwell (professional writer, not a health professional) made the statements about propylene glycol being used in asthma inhalers since the 1950s and it being the compound of choice for delivering atomized medication. He lists references and Resources at the end of his article. I clicked on these but was unable to find specifically where it said that propylene glycol was or is used in asthma inhalers. Regarding his comment re: propylene glycol being the 'compound of choice' for delivering atomized medication, I am sure that awhile back I read a report re: the FDA approval of propylene glycol as GRAS and in that article it talked about the FDA approved uses of proylene glycol as the dispersing agent in the inhalation of medications - I just have not been able to find that article again (that'll teach me to copy things whenever I find useful info). Anyway I'm continuing to search. If you google: propylene glycol as a dispersing agent in inhalers you get some really interesting links, I've just not had time to look through them all yet.
 

ricky59

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The sad fact is that the medical community as a whole are people just like you and I. We tend to believe what we want to believe and discard what we don't want to believe as unscientific. I am a chiropractor. In the face of hundreds (possibly thousands) of research studies showing that it is safe and effective, MD's will often try to scare their patients with some anecdotal story about someone being harmed by chiropractic.

Here, these same things are happening. The bemoan the lack of credible scientific evidence proving that e-cigs are safe and then proceed to quote anecdotal evidence to prove that they are harmful. They don't even see the double standard when it is staring them in the face.
 

Janetda

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I'm sorry, but I still can't find any inhalers that use PG. Aerobid uses PG in the nasel spray, not the inhaler. Unless I'm reading it wrong. I've been searching for months for any kind of inhaler that uses PG. The only thing I can find is the lung transplant med Cyclosporine. Until we have something more substantial than eHow, I think we need to stop telling people that PG is in asthma inhalers.
 
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kristin

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I'm sorry, but I still can't find any inhalers that use PG. Aerobid uses PG in the nasel spray, not the inhaler. Unless I'm reading it wrong. I've been searching for months for any kind of inhaler that uses PG. The only thing I can find is the lung transplant med Cyclosporine. Until we have something more substantial than eHow, I think we need to stop telling people that PG is in asthma inhalers.

Territoo, CASAA's medical director, checked and said this:
I looked up 4 different ones and 3 used alcohol as the base, the fourth didn't indicate. Source: 2008 physician's desk reference

However, Yvilla's link DOES show that it's used in nasal spray, which is inhaled, correct?

So, probably safer/more accurate to say PG is in "nasal spray" and NOT "asthma inhalers." I found it listed in a LOT of nasal sprays. Some interesting comments on the drug sites:

ingredients like propylene glycol and purified water may help soothe the irritated tissue

PROPYLENE GLYCOL/POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL SPRAY - NASAL:

"product is a non-medicated nose spray "

"does not contain any decongestants. Therefore, it may be safe to use with certain medical conditions that typically should not use decongestant nasal sprays (e.g., cardiovascular disease, diabetes, glaucoma, hyperthyroidism, pregnancy)."

"This product does not contain medicine. Overdose precautions are not applicable."

Inactive ingredients: propylene glycol
 
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kristin

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I agree. Considering most of these PG-containing sprays say they are safe for children (over 6 years) it's still a convincing argument. Here is one description:

SinoFresh Nasal Mist is safe for children 6 years and older, diabetics, pregnant or lactating women, and hypertensive individuals.

PG is listed #2 in the ingredients.
 

Moonflame

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Doesn't the fact that they give it to lung transplant patients to inhale show that it must be safe? It seems to me they are some of the most at risk "lung-wise" so if it's safe for them it should be safe for us. Has anyone checked the ingredients in nebulizer fluid for asthma to see if PG is in those?
 

deusXmchna

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However, Yvilla's link DOES show that it's used in nasal spray, which is inhaled, correct?
:

Inhaled, but not taken into the lungs. There's also the difference that the PG isn't heated until vaporization.

I'm not sure if it's safe. I'm a biologist, my father's a (liberally thinking) lung doctor/professor of med, Mom designs & runs drug trials. Sister is crazy hypochondriac.

Is Vaping safer?- almost certainly so.
Will we possibly be confronting unforeseen complications in 5-10-20yrs? Quite possibly.

I had almost weaned myself from tobacco to e-cigs, when a family tragedy left me unable to do much but sit in bed and cry. I went back to cigs because they were convenient. I'm back to about 50/50% again and plan on being back on the Vape within a week or two.

It made a believer of both of my parents. Dad has seen every gimmick & nicotine delivery device come and go- and he was impressed with my ability to quickly convert over, as well as the _relative_ safety of the e-cig over tobacco.

That being said- I can think of a number of sources of probs in rubberstamping e-cigs as safe. There could be funky impurities in the atty's that get vaporized and carried in, unforeseen problems with the heating the PG/VG, as well as the flavorings, some of which can be very complex chemically, and any time you add heat, weird things start to happen.

Last time I was in the nebulizer suite at Dads office, I checked the two most used neb fluids; albuterol & ipatropium. Neither had PG. There are other meds delivered via nebulizer, but those were the two they had big boxes of sitting out, and I was in a hurry.

So, I know I'm kinda playing devils advocate here. Don't get me wrong, I'm a true believer in vaping. No sidestream smoke, which is turning out to be much worse than we initially thought. Ideally, no inhaling of _burnt_ material (although lately I've had some weird attys that are doing weird things). The obvious list of "pro's" could take me hrs to type out, while the "cons" are far fewer than tobacco smoking.

At the very least it falls safely into the "harm reduction" category, but most likely goes much further than that. I just don't want people to get the idea that this is a perfectly safe tech, just because theres PG in oral meds, or nasal inhalers, etc. There's no comparison with that, and heating the stuff up and inhaling it, covering the massive surface area of the lungs, and of the very sensitive and delicate alveoli.

So there are no flames from confusion, again:
smoking cigs- BAD
Vaping- infinitely less bad, with potential unknown future ramifications.
 

NCC

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As soon as i get a few free minutes I plan on responding to this idiot. Add me to the list of ...... off vapers who will help put dumb asses like this out of their self induced stupidity.
Glad to see a Doctor aboard. I've enjoyed your videos. Thanks for your interest and participation. :)
 

chrisl317

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Jun 29, 2009
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Good for you! Let's hope something comes of it.

You know, about the asthma inhaler question. A while back I tried to verify that PG is used in asthma inhalers and could not find a product where PG was listed as an ingredient.

I can think of three explanations:

1. It's there but not shown in the ingredients list. (Not sure what the labeling requirements are for an inactive ingredient.)
2. It used to be in the personal asthma inhalers at one time, but is no longer used.
3. It's actually used in some different inhalation product(s), but not in the pocket-size personal asthma inhalers such as Ventolin.

Anybody know?

EDIT: Just found this: Preclinical safety evaluation of inhaled cyclospor... [J Aerosol Med. 2007] - PubMed result

Preclinical safety evaluation of inhaled cyclosporine in propylene glycol



Now whether or not Novartis went on to actually use PG as a carrier in the final version of the product needs further research.



I use Primatene Mist and I believe PG is listed on the box not on the bottle itself. What I did find on the bottle though is surprising.

"Contains CFC12, 114 substances which may harm public health and enviroment by destroying ozone in the upper atmosphere."

In other words - Freon

Chlorofluorocarbon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

DaveP

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I couldn't find an asthma inhaler that specified PG in its ingredients. I did find some interesting articles concerning use of PG. It's apparent that PG isn't a great compound to inhale all day every day, at least for some of us.

Fairly negative assessment of PG in medications, especially inhaled.
Propylene Glycol- A Dangerous Additive to Consumer Products

Drugs.com list of side effects when ingested by different methods. Inhaling seems to be the best way with least side effects.
Polyethylene Glycol Side Effects | Drugs.com

And one from a legal lawsuit mill.
: propylene glycol : Class Action Blog

A year old article that isn't really that derogatory. At least most of the facts are true.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/us/02cigarette.html
 

NCC

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Well well, check THIS out!! :)
Thank you very much for the heads up! I almost missed it the first time I scanned the posts.

That is the most direct indictment of the FDA in this regard that I've seen outside of the forum.

I'm sharing the article with several acquaintances.
 
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