how does TC work really

[Foggyroomz]

I haven't dealt with TC but I see all these new devices and everyone's buzzing about them.
So.... how does TC work does it limit power or cut power after a certain set temp is achieved?

Say for instance you set the power on a snow wolf at 200 watts but the temp at 375 how does it determine how much power is too much or not enough? 200 watts with a .3 build is extremely warm on a nichrome 60 build on my SMY 260 so 200 watts is 200 watts regardless of the source so does TC mods when in TC mode work strictly off of tempersture settings and adjust voltage and power be it joules or watts according to the resistance of the coil and desired temperature meaning you could run 100 watts or 10 watts and get the same vape?
I just curious to find out the parameters that these things work by so I know if I want to add one to my arsenal of mods.
Thanks and sorry so long I'm usually up on all the latest and greatest but fell behind when TC came into play.

 

[dr3d]

So.... how does TC work does it limit power or cut power after a certain set temp is achieved?

That is gonna depend on who's TC you are asking about. Different coders use different techniques. General technique is use the power to bring coil to temperature, then employ some strategy to maintain that temperature. The strategy imposed to maintain the temperature differentiates the current offerings.

Overly basically Evolv ramps power down to maintain temperature; others modulate frequency. Joyetech does a bit of both.

Or ... how does TC work | E-Cigarette Forum ... another answer from your other thread.

 

[Foggyroomz]

What do you recommend for a TC unit I was looking at the snow wolf opus 200 and evic vt

 

[thetrucker]

Same with me I tried to keep up on the latest vaping equipment but when the Temperature Controlled Devices came out

I was left behind--kind of like when The Beatles broke up and then along comes---kids 30 years younger talking

thru the songs---ahahahahahahahahahahah

 

[Foggyroomz]

I like to vape at high wattages with low ohm builds so I'd want a device that will satisfy that I rock my troll @ 135 watts .12 build on my sigelei 150 as my ADV rig so I want to know what will TC be able to offer me in the ways of warmth clouds and Flavor.

 

[jks89]

TC differs from straight VV/VW in that when it reaches the set temperature limit, it essentially drops the power that is being delivered to the coil in order to not exceed that temperature. It "detects" the temperature by measuring the change in resistance in the coil. This change in resistance is why nickel or titanium wire is used for it. They have a plottable path of resistances where the temperature can be measured.

When you're using a VV/VW device, you have your set amount of power that it reaches. In some respect, you do your own temperature control with these devices by adjusting your V/W and airflow. Warmth can be subjective just like taste, so let's say your preferred temperature is 450. If you puff long enough even your preferred set up will end up getting too warm. I haven't really experimented with it, but I would think that time and temperature are directly relative - vape continues to get hotter the longer that same amount of power is delivered to the coil.

Enter TC mods. We still know our preferred temperature is 450, so we set our device there. Some mods will deliver a burst of power to attempt to reach that temperature as quickly as possible. If the temperature starts to exceed (or gets close to, depending on the mod's programming) the set limit, it decreases power to prevent exceeding the set temperature.

As far as what this means for clouds, warmth, and flavor, it may take some time playing with the settings to find what you like, but you should be able to get the same results. The only limiting factor would be the properties of nickel/titanium wire, as neither of them should be dry burned to the point where kanthal is to make some of the more complicated builds.

 

[Foggyroomz]

So can I get the same vape off a 60 watt evic vt that I get off my sigelei 150 by using titanium or nickel wire and running say 450 to 500 degrees? Or would I need an Opus DNA 200 / Snow wolf 200 / Tesla 160 / Sigelei 150 TC I really like the looks of the evic the size is nice and 5000mah is appealing but I don't want to waste money on a mod that won't get the job done.

 

[jks89]

So can I get the same vape off a 60 watt evic vt that I get off my sigelei 150 by using titanium or nickel wire and running say 450 to 500 degrees? Or would I need an Opus DNA 200 / Snow wolf 200 / Tesla 160 / Sigelei 150 TC I really like the looks of the evic the size is nice and 5000mah is appealing but I don't want to waste money on a mod that won't get the job done.

I would think so, but I've never had anything bigger than a 50w mod. I'm sure there's a Evic VT thread you could check in at and they might have some more info for you.

 

[drmarble]

So can I get the same vape off a 60 watt evic vt that I get off my sigelei 150 by using titanium or nickel wire and running say 450 to 500 degrees? Or would I need an Opus DNA 200 / Snow wolf 200 / Tesla 160 / Sigelei 150 TC I really like the looks of the evic the size is nice and 5000mah is appealing but I don't want to waste money on a mod that won't get the job done.

Judging by your name you won't be satisfied. You cannot gererate the clouds with a 60 watt device that you can get from a 150 watt device. The total power to vaporize vg just isn't there. If you are looking for clouds there is no subsitute for watts. If you want flavor then you can get an excellent experience from a lower wattage TC device.

 

[disley]

So can I get the same vape off a 60 watt evic vt that I get off my sigelei 150 by using titanium or nickel wire and running say 450 to 500 degrees? Or would I need an Opus DNA 200 / Snow wolf 200 / Tesla 160 / Sigelei 150 TC I really like the looks of the evic the size is nice and 5000mah is appealing but I don't want to waste money on a mod that won't get the job done.

Don't worry about it, the evic VT is a great mod and a good price.
If you want to start using nickel and titanium coils it's perfectly adequate.

 

[Foggyroomz]

I guess that TC is more of a flavor driven concept versus vapor production then so your saying get a Sigelei 150 watt TC unit so that it does both adequately and skip out on the evic vt. See I don't quite get how the wattage makes any difference if they both will hit 600 degrees though? Or is it about the more power the quicker you can access the 600 degrees of temperature? It would seem to me that if both units can hit 600 degrees of temperature that in TC mode the wattage serves no higher purpose unless you switch to a different atomizer that is built with kanthal or stainless wires. Am I wrong?

 

[EvlSmrk]

Just venturing into TC myself with an Invader Mini, I may be way off base, but I'm going to try and explain how I understand it. Your previous comment is spot on, if they can both reach the temp you want, then it doesn't matter whether it's limited to 50W, or 200W. The 200W mod will get you to the limit that you've set much quicker. But once you're at temp, the vape should be the same provided all you've done is swapped the dripper/tank/whatever from one mod to the other. In my opinion, the desire for a 200W, or similar high wattage mod, is when not using TC. For instance, if I'm ADV off a tank and loving the TC for a smooth, flavorful hit, and then head to the vape shop after work, it'd be nice to swap to a dripper, turn off TC, and go to town. Currently, in that situation, I use my Invader Mini at work with whatever I'm trying out for a TC build, and carry my Sigelei 150W with me for when I want to throw on my Buddha or Mutation, crank up the power, and fog a room.

 

[Foggyroomz]

Ok so I run my Sig 150 with my troll .14 @ 125 to 140 watts can a TC mod give the same heat and flavor vape wise or would a TC unit be a waste of my time?

 

[Cullin Kin]

Ok so I run my Sig 150 with my troll .14 @ 125 to 140 watts can a TC mod give the same heat and flavor vape wise or would a TC unit be a waste of my time?

A TC mod will be a waste of your time imo. I would compare a good TC build to building a Kayfun 4 or Lemo II really well. It is a cool vape, with a lot of flavor, no dry hits, and decent vapor. The main drives for TC are to avoid dry hits by not burning the cotton, to not cook the juice as much, and to get better flavor. If you're turning the temperature way past that point... There is no point.

However, you really never know until you try it. Based off of how you vape currently, if you plan to stick to that, think I don't you will like it.

 

[Foggyroomz]

Well if I were to get a TC mod would it be of my best interests to get a snow wolf or a Sigelei tc 150 when it finally releases that way I have the ability to switch over to my dripper when the TC isn't getting it done? I was really looking at an evic vt because of battery life but I would only be able to run my tanks on it by what I'm hearing about TC a dripper wouldn't benefit any on that device.

 

[BigEgo]

Judging by your name you won't be satisfied. You cannot gererate the clouds with a 60 watt device that you can get from a 150 watt device. The total power to vaporize vg just isn't there. If you are looking for clouds there is no subsitute for watts. If you want flavor then you can get an excellent experience from a lower wattage TC device.

You can get the same clouds with a TC device if you have a high wattage TC device (like the DNA 200). More watts doesn't necessarily mean a higher temperature if you have the correct build.

 

[Vooper]

You can get the same clouds with a TC device if you have a high wattage TC device (like the DNA 200). More watts doesn't necessarily mean a higher temperature if you have the correct build.

You're totally defeating half the point of temp control by doing so, however.

 

[edyle]

I guess that TC is more of a flavor driven concept versus vapor production then so your saying get a Sigelei 150 watt TC unit so that it does both adequately and skip out on the evic vt. See I don't quite get how the wattage makes any difference if they both will hit 600 degrees though? Or is it about the more power the quicker you can access the 600 degrees of temperature? It would seem to me that if both units can hit 600 degrees of temperature that in TC mode the wattage serves no higher purpose unless you switch to a different atomizer that is built with kanthal or stainless wires. Am I wrong?

Yes; the more power available, the faster the rampup time.
Of course, as usual, the more power available, the more fog you can potentially make, and the bigger the coil you can potential fire.

 

[yo han]

How does it work? The basics are quite simple:
Certain metals' (Nickel, Titanium, Stainless Steel) resistance considerably goes up when temperature rises. And it's doing so by a known pattern.
A TC device measures this resistance and thereby "knows" the temperature of the coil because these figures are set and always the same.
Let's say you've built a coil that's 0.2 Ohms. You put it on the device and it asks you if it's a new coil.
By pressing Yes (usually the Up button) you're telling the device the resistance it's measuring is its resistance in non-firing base condition.
So now you're firing the device and because the temperature rises, the resistance goes up as well. The device measures this and because the device has all the data of different temperatures and resistances stored inside it can tell the temperature of the coil just by monitoring the resistance of the coil. As soon as it reaches the set temperature (or actually the set resistance), it throttles the voltage and tries to keep the resistance at the level that matches the set temperature. The wattage you're setting is merely an average you want to vape at. Look at it as "how fast do you want to reach the desired temperature?" Set is at an extremely high level and the unit will hardly ever supply the amount of set wattage because it quickly reaches the set temperature and immediately starts throttling. Set it to a very low level and the temperature control will hardly be used because the low setting will prevent the coil from reaching your desired temperature setting.
There's more going on but this is a simple explanation of temperature control.

 

[VapingBad]

There still seems to be confusion between the use of Watts and temp in adjusting your vape. They have different affects on your vape, an easy way to illustrate this is the misconception some people have that watts don't matter just set the temp. Basic logic and experience will tell you that 2 mm coil in a Kayfun running at 400 F will give far less vapour than 4 mm dual/quad/octo coils at the same temp with both running at max watts. So if you just set the temp it is like building for a mech in the your build will effectively set the power. The heat up time maybe a valid reason to increase the Watts if you are not using a device with pre-heat, but your build will have determine the power you end up vaping at.

There are also big differences in how it has been implemented to, for example Evolv have had real-time poor regulation since the Darwin so can easily use that to get V & I and thereby temp at any point in time (see the end of pBusardo's IPV2 video if you don't believe me). I don't think any YiHI board has real-time poor regulation so they need to pause to measure the resistance, IIRC only a couple of times each second. YiHi have IMO a very strange way of regulating the output power using pulse frequency modulation PFM, bursts of high power that will cause the coil temp to swing more then a DC regulated design so is less stable. It is a strange way to do it, consider how we know the PWM effectively gives higher average power than DC this is because of the heat is generated far quicker in the coils than it drops between pulses and requires special maths to calibrate (RMS). Now PFM will have the same issue, but the maths are a lot harder as every pulse and gap can be different lengths and could explain why coils get hotter than everyone else's - it may me they still are quit accurate on average with larger swings of min and max temp. I can't help thinking that this is a knock on effect from the lack of real-time power regulation and resistance monitoring or why would they have a completely different kind of output in temp mode than in Kanthal mode, one is better so why not use it in both modes if you can.

(Opps, seems like YiHi bashing, but their singular approach to temp limiting is interesting and I can't understand why they would do it that way)

For me I choose the temp that my liquid tastes best at and if I cant make enough vapour I need a bigger coil, more airflow, wicking or a combination of those to get it.