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Mouth Ulcers, PG vs VG, etc

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by Jammin, Jul 25, 2011.

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  1. Jammin

    Jammin Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Location:
    Washington DC
    So, I haven't been on for awhile, and if I am posting in the wrong forum, moderators please feel free to move this.

    I have been analog free for one year next month! Woo hoo! I put them down last August, and i did very well with E Cig. That first month was trial and error to find what I liked, but I found it and haven't craved an analog since that first month of putting them away. My preference is my Joye Ego and Joye PG fluid, menthol, 18 mgs. It works great for me. I love it.

    The only problem I have had at all is mouth ulcers. When i first started getting them had no clue what that was all about, then I saw on the forum that it must have been from the E Cig as others experienced the same issue. FOr the next at 9 months after quitting analogs I would get one painful ulcer after another. One would go away, another would pop up somewhere else. And I do not believe it was from the fluid touching my mouth as they would end up in places that fluid never even reached. I never got any on my lips and that is really the only place i would get a bit of fluid come in contact with.

    So at any rate, my main reason for posting is that I just got so tired of the ulcers, and was quite frankly ready to quit the E Cig because as much as I enjoyed it, and enjoyed being smoke free, having an ulcer pop up incessantly from now on was not very appealing. So I researched everything I could on this topic and one thing I did find was that SLS - Sodium Laurel Sulfate - in toothpaste can cause issues in recurrent canker sore suffers.

    I figured what that heck. Nothing to lose. The mouth ulcers were driving me crazy. So I bought Biotene, which is a formula of toothpaste for dry mouth, and wow! Knock on wood. One month now, no ulcers. The reason for my post is mainly to share this tip to anyone who might have the same issue with canker sores/ulcers and hopefully you can find relief too. Not only does it help dry mouth, which definitely plagues us who smoke E Cig as it is very dehydrating, it also does not have the dreaded additive SLS which is really a bit caustic for a sensitive mouth. Now this might not be new news for some of you, but I wanted to pass along to anyone who might have missed that this could aggravate the issue.

    My second reason for posting is to ask - which is better for this ? PG or VG? I have been using Joye PG, but is VG perhaps a better alternative for a person who has suffered from recurrent ulcers after switching to ECigs? I never had these issues with mouth ulcers before, I am convinced it is from the ECig - maybe it isn't and entirely separate - but it seems too big of a coincendence they didnt start til I threw my analogs in the trash and switched.
     
  2. 4mehealth

    4mehealth Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Location:
    canada
    I haven't had any canker sores from quitting *knock on wood*.

    I just wanted to say congrats on hitting 1 year.

    As for the juice, it don't hurt to try.
     
  3. WomanOfHeart

    WomanOfHeart Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Location:
    Colorado
    I would think that VG would be better, since it's less harsh than PG. I'm sure others will probably chime in here.

    The info you provided regarding Sodium Laurel Sulfate is very interesting because I get cold sores all the time! I've never had any ulcers from vaping, but I wonder if using Biotene would help me, too!
     
  4. Rikaroo

    Rikaroo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Location:
    Arkansas
    My experience over the last 6 months has been that when I vape any juice with cinnamon I will get a mouth ulcer somewhere around the gumline/inside cheek area. Always happens to me and no other juice does it to me.

    My 2 cents
     
  5. 4mehealth

    4mehealth Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Location:
    canada
    WOH, if not biotene, there are some in the Sensodyne line that doesn't have SLS.

    *Never knew of it until my son started getting cankers. Switched toothpaste and it was all good.
     
  6. FantWriter

    FantWriter Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I've found that I can vape any proportion of PG/VG at 3.7V, but 50-50 PG/VG (or above) at 5V causes instant sores. Mine are not little ulcers -- it's quarter-sized or larger patches of tissues peeling off.

    I haven't heard about the SLS. Thanks for that info because although I have my situation under control by only vaping high-VG juices in my PTs, I never know when things might change.
     
  7. Alac

    Alac Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    3 weeks 100% VG, 3 weeks canker sore free.
    Last time I went 2 weeks pure VG, 2 days PG 3 canker sores.

    Vitamin b12 is your friend when you get them.

    But leets put this into proper terms.
    Chances are, you had canker sores before you started smokeing.
    Something in smokeing hinders the occorence of canker sores, and getting canker sores is a know side effect when quiting smokeing.
    PG only aggitates the condition, just as many other things can aggitate it.
     
  8. Sandrita

    Sandrita Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Location:
    Gibraltar & Spain
    Great post thanks for sharing
     
  9. Greendogo

    Greendogo Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Wow, what a good amount of information in this thread!

    I have a genetic predisposition to getting canker sores, they run in my dad's side of the family, so I've gotten them since I was very young. Something I am just now realizing is that for the four or so years that I smoked my occurrences of canker sores were very small. I didn't notice that at all!

    Now, when I started vaping, I got dry mouth right off the bat, so I started staying hydrated pretty well, but now I'm a good year or two in and my good habits of staying hydrated have sort of fallen into disrepair. Now dry mouth upon waking up in the morning has been a severe occurrence for the past 2 to 3 months. In addition, even though I use Sensodyne's Pronamel, which contains no Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, but I have now had four canker sores in the last month or so. My diet is rich in vitamin C and B12 and it is very healthy with lots of fruits and vegetables, and I get a good amount of sleep. My only hypothesis as to why I've been getting canker sores now all of a sudden is that my dry mouth could possibly be contributing. I'm going to get a mouthwash designed to fight dry mouth and stay more hydrated than usual in order to test out my theory. The occurrence of canker sores is not something well understood by the medical community, so it would be nice to find a way to keep myself from getting them.

    By the way, a proven instant treatment of canker sores is Debacterol, it is a chemical cauterizer designed for canker sores that can only be applied by a doctor or dentist (at least at this time in the U.S.). For anyone reading this with an extremely bad canker sore, I would suggest getting in contact with your doctor (my dentist hadn't heard of the stuff yet :facepalm:)
     
  10. wdave

    wdave Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Don't vape carts, cartos nor tanks that have sharp edges.

    HTH,
    Dave
     
  11. classwife

    classwife Ask The Vets Manager
    Asst Classifieds Mgr
    Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Location:
    Wesley Chapel, Florida
    Moved to Health, Safety and E-Smoking
     
  12. b3ast1e

    b3ast1e Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Location:
    UK South Coast
    Really great post, so helpful to people new to vaping AND giving up smoking and coming up against this problem.I myself had tons of issues with sore gums, sores on my tongue and the inner cheek. I also developed an infection on a molar literally within days of quitting analogues. I went straight from smoking to vaping so it was really hard to get a sense of whether what I was experiencing was due to the vape, or what many other people have reported having quit tobacco.

    I'm personally relieved to find that my symptoms began to subside rapidly in the fourth week of quitting. I did start using Corsodyl mouthwash which I guess may have helped somewhat in hurrying along my recovery from some really uncomfortable symptoms, but I think what may have helped get it under control was just making sure I drank plenty of water when I vaped fairly intensively, and particularly early in the day. That's helped greatly. So perhaps this is a combination of factors. And given that everyone has different body chemistry, some of us are on meds, we all have varying diets, toothpastes etc, even different levels of chemicals in our local water supply...well who knows?

    What most of us do have in common is that we've been doing the equivalent of sucking on a tailpipe 14-16 hours a day and for decades in a lot of cases, I imagine all those thousands of chemicals, and even just the warmth of tobacco smoke has caused the sensitive skin in our mouths to become as tough as old boots. A combination of cutting off supply of goodness knows what substances, an altering of the chemistry balance, softening of the mouth tissue and then aggravating it all with PG that affects moisture, and the nicotine and flavourings - well it's bound to cause some discomfort. Hopefully though, most find like I did, that it resolves with time.

    My two pennies anyway.
     
  13. dmatrix7

    dmatrix7 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Location:
    Belleville Ontario
    I had my first experience with 6V vaping with 100% VG or 70/30% PG/VG. Within days I started to get these canker sores or sore spots in my mouth. Switched back to 3.7V with the same juices and all is good and healing. Drag for me, but I guess I cannot vape higher voltages.
     
  14. sweetmeat

    sweetmeat Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    To the OP: I noticed that you said you smoke menthol, that could be irritating in large doses as well! Anything that creates a heating/cooling sensation like cinnamon or mint can potentially irritate a sensitive mouth, just something to consider :)
     
  15. mel_vin

    mel_vin Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto
    But its totally PG. Same thing happened to me when I vaped PG. Mouth Full of canker sores. VG does not seem to bother my mouth at all....curious tho about that toothpaste. I do find VG "Heavy" on the lungs. I've been wanting to try a PG/VG mix but have always been hesitant due to the cankers.

    @Dave - I disagree. Cartos do not give me cankers.
     
  16. Kurt

    Kurt Quantum Vapyre ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PG does this to me too. The only PG I use is in a flavoring. Looking into VG-based flavorings. Most flavorings are compounds in PG, and I cannot use more than 10% flavoring before the sores start again. Always starts with cotton mouth and scratchy tongue. Barely have to even drink water with VG juices.
     
  17. seniorGecko

    seniorGecko Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Thanks for this post Jammin. I did a search for canker sore and found this thread because I've had a canker sore for several days now that won't go away and gets more irritated each time i vape. I've also been waking up in the middle of the night with dry mouth and throat. I'm going to try the Biotene toothpaste. I was doing ok vaping VG for a few days and then decided to try some PG juice and that's when it started.
     
  18. Jammin

    Jammin Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Location:
    Washington DC
    I know I am very late on responding to this, but are you SURE the Sensodyne you are using contains no SLS of any kind? I have not found a variety of this brand that doesn't have some SLS and i DO get canker sores from this product. Biotene is the only thing so far that works, however, because of no foaming action people who are prone to cavities need to be careful and perhaps supplement their daily routine with a flouride rinse like ACT.
     
  19. Jammin

    Jammin Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Unfortunately I got the canker sores from other non minty fluids when I first started vaping. I didn't switch to menthol until I was a few months in.
     
  20. Jammin

    Jammin Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Cartos do not give me cankers either, now that I have used Biotene exclusively. When I run out and have to use a regular toothpaste, wouldn't ya know it I get a sore.
     
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