NET: what I need to know to make my own tobacco flavored e-juice...

[fitzdevlin]

In searching for NET (naturally extracted tobacco) for e-juice online, I’ve found that most recipes are sketchy, vague and fail to give the ‘newb’ a thorough understanding of what is necessary to produce a tobacco like e-juice that is safe and tasty, or that offers actual quantities of yeild. Math?

In purchasing products for NET, my interest is in saving money in the face of purchasing small bottles of e-juice. So I want to know what vessels, nicotine testing kits, and other such things I’ll need to make and explore recipes properly. I also want to see ratios in online recipes. Unfortunately, most of the recipes I find are some person’s accounts that lacks a lot of information. Additionally, most people use unexplained acronyms for important terms that are known to the experienced but not to the aspiring makers out there. PLEASE offer useful information if you’re interest is education.

So here is a bulleted list, which I will be posting to multiple forums, of questions I have for anyone willing to help me with a serious recipe:

• What containers, Ball jars, etc. should a heat assisted or cold steep require?
  • What size should a cooking/cold steeping container be for a certain yield?
  • What size container makes sense for mixing the extract into a final product?
• Based on steeping method, how fine should tobacco be shredded/powdered?
  • I smoked Drum/Bali Shag/P. Stokkebye’s hand rolling tobacco for 20 years and would like to recreate their quality.
  • If using a heat/reduction method, what protective gear will I need?
• I would like to achieve somewhere around a 70% VG/30% PG final product. Therefore, how much PG should be used for steeping, and how do I arrive at that ratio once the extraction is complete? I have seen too many recipes that list ingredients adding up to more than 100%. MATH people, math.
• Time? Clearly timing differs based on cooking/steeping method. So, to best reproduce the smell/taste of raw pipe/handrolling tobacco, what is the best time to steep or cook?
• When mixing a final extract, how much extract/flavor to PG, VG and nicotine (after figuring out the nicotine level of extract)?
  • What concentration/amount of nicotine extract should I order/use to bring my juice to 12mg?
• Since I’m looking for a 70% VG/30% PG final product, what large quantities of ingredients should I purchase?
  • i.e. how many pints to quarts to gallons of PG, VG and nicotine extract does it make sense to purchase?
• Finally, any recommendations of suppliers for purchasing bulk ingredients from?

I’m sure I’ve left important questions out, so if you entertain answering my questions, please feel free to offer more than I’ve asked. Hopefully this outline will provide more vapers with the information they need to make their own e-juice.

Thank you all.

 

[67Tele]

Hey and Welcome.
You've got a whole bunch of questions. Very good questions though. It may take awhile to get all the answers. If you look down one level under DIY you'll find: Liquid Extraction From Tobacco where you might find some help.

To get started check out this thread for which supplies to get:
Getting started,help please

I get my glass bottles from here: https://www.glassbottleoutlet.com/

VG/PG from: Essential Depot: Sodium Hydroxide, Lye, Potassium Hydroxide, Argan Oil, Shea Butter, Essential Oil, Fragrance Oil, Vegetable Oils, Food Grade

Nicotine from: Wizard Labs

There are other places for solvent/nic purchasing. These are just the places I use and prefer.

I do cold extraction because it's simple. @Str8vision has a great thread of Heat Extraction: Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

For mixing PG/VG/Nic/Extract I mix by weight using this calculator: New Calculator to try
As a very general rule for extracted pipe tobacco I mix around 25%. For cigar extracts around 35%.

I buy the majority of my tobacco from: Best Selection & Prices On Pipes, Tobaccos, Cigars - Pipes and Cigars There's also: Smokingpipes.com | Tobacco Pipes - Pipe Tobacco and www.4noggins.com - Powered by Network Solutions.

For examples of different types that have been extracted try here: Best tobacco for flavor extraction

These are quick answers because i've been up since 3:30 a.m. and I'm old and very sleepy. There are a lot of good people who extract and they're very generous with advice, direction and help.

It's a wonderful road to get on.

 

[fitzdevlin]

That is very helpful!..with the exception of the calculator link which appears to just be the middle of some thread, but that kind of answer is what I'm looking for. Thank you.

 

[nostradadus]

@67Tele has given you great links.

I learned just about everything I know about the NET process from reading the NET threads here on ECF. Thank goodness the NET members here have taken the time to post their knowledge, trials, errors and success here for others to read. I would still be "walking in the wilderness", otherwise.

 

[David Wolf]

In searching for NET (naturally extracted tobacco) for e-juice online, I’ve found that most recipes are sketchy, vague and fail to give the ‘newb’ a thorough understanding of what is necessary to produce a tobacco like e-juice that is safe and tasty, or that offers actual quantities of yeild. Math?

In purchasing products for NET, my interest is in saving money in the face of purchasing small bottles of e-juice. So I want to know what vessels, nicotine testing kits, and other such things I’ll need to make and explore recipes properly. I also want to see ratios in online recipes. Unfortunately, most of the recipes I find are some person’s accounts that lacks a lot of information. Additionally, most people use unexplained acronyms for important terms that are known to the experienced but not to the aspiring makers out there. PLEASE offer useful information if you’re interest is education.

So here is a bulleted list, which I will be posting to multiple forums, of questions I have for anyone willing to help me with a serious recipe:

• What containers, Ball jars, etc. should a heat assisted or cold steep require?
  • What size should a cooking/cold steeping container be for a certain yield?
  • What size container makes sense for mixing the extract into a final product?
• Based on steeping method, how fine should tobacco be shredded/powdered?
  • I smoked Drum/Bali Shag/P. Stokkebye’s hand rolling tobacco for 20 years and would like to recreate their quality.
  • If using a heat/reduction method, what protective gear will I need?
• I would like to achieve somewhere around a 70% VG/30% PG final product. Therefore, how much PG should be used for steeping, and how do I arrive at that ratio once the extraction is complete? I have seen too many recipes that list ingredients adding up to more than 100%. MATH people, math.
• Time? Clearly timing differs based on cooking/steeping method. So, to best reproduce the smell/taste of raw pipe/handrolling tobacco, what is the best time to steep or cook?
• When mixing a final extract, how much extract/flavor to PG, VG and nicotine (after figuring out the nicotine level of extract)?
  • What concentration/amount of nicotine extract should I order/use to bring my juice to 12mg?
• Since I’m looking for a 70% VG/30% PG final product, what large quantities of ingredients should I purchase?
  • i.e. how many pints to quarts to gallons of PG, VG and nicotine extract does it make sense to purchase?
• Finally, any recommendations of suppliers for purchasing bulk ingredients from?

I’m sure I’ve left important questions out, so if you entertain answering my questions, please feel free to offer more than I’ve asked. Hopefully this outline will provide more vapers with the information they need to make their own e-juice.

Thank you all.

Are you really asking people to do all your homework for you with that list of questions? Really now, I'm on to you Search the forum a lot of your answers are here, then ask the ones you didn't find an answer to.

 

[fitzdevlin]

Are you really asking people to do all your homework for you with that list of questions? Really now, I'm on to you Search the forum a lot of your answers are here, then ask the ones you didn't find an answer to.

if you don't like the idea, don't respond. there are are plenty examples online of those who are happy to provide their knowledge/time for free; you don't have to be one of those. i was shooting at a free target. clearly you don't want to be a simple/free source of information, and that's okay. however, making an attempt at me feel bad for pursing the simplest route is nothing more than time you should've spent doing something more worthwhile to you.

 

[fitzdevlin]

...thusly, THANK YOU again 67Tele. i'm not trying to be a lazy forum participant, i'm just trying to spend as little time cobbling together bits of information from a dozen or more sites to help me keep from smoking hand rolled tobacco.

as a woodworker, i'm familiar with how guarded the tricks of the trades were until more recently. the world has changed, and, in this regard, i feel it's for the better. i'm sure we've all seen how cursory and vague most online recipes for juice usually are, and i simply wanted to provide a template for a better filtration of all the ideas out there.

i humbly apologize to you and others like David Wolf who are angered that i may have spent less time figuring this out (on account of your help) than they did. the school of hard knocks is nothing more than a rite of passage, to me.

thanks yet again for helping me deal with my addiction in a way that didn't keep me from too much time with those i love.

 

[fitzdevlin]

"You may say organize, organize, organize; but there may be so much organization that it will interfere with the work to be done."

Mark Twain

 

[David Wolf]

...thusly, THANK YOU again 67Tele. i'm not trying to be a lazy forum participant, i'm just trying to spend as little time cobbling together bits of information from a dozen or more sites to help me keep from smoking hand rolled tobacco.

as a woodworker, i'm familiar with how guarded the tricks of the trades were until more recently. the world has changed, and, in this regard, i feel it's for the better. i'm sure we've all seen how cursory and vague most online recipes for juice usually are, and i simply wanted to provide a template for a better filtration of all the ideas out there.

i humbly apologize to you and others like David Wolf who are angered that i may have spent less time figuring this out (on account of your help) than they did. the school of hard knocks is nothing more than a rite of passage, to me.

thanks yet again for helping me deal with my addiction in a way that didn't keep me from too much time with those i love.

I wasn't angered, just amused at the detailed list of questions that it appeared to me your time was far too valuable to use the search tool first and so let others research for you and at the same time gave us a lecture on MATH lol

 

[fitzdevlin]

you seem not to see value in bringing together cursory and often incomplete recipe information in a detailed outline that benefits more than just me.

and if you call requesting numbers that add up properly in a recipe a lecture, you're just dramatic.

maybe not angry, but certainly put out by people who don't do things your way. it's pretty clear.

 

[Hercules]

I've been reading the NET section on and off over the past couple of weeks... Tons of information scattered all over the place.. I would love to have it all organized to make my life easier, but I don't really mind if I have to do the work when I am doing my own research

 

[David Wolf]

you seem not to see value in bringing together cursory and often incomplete recipe information in a detailed outline that benefits more than just me.

and if you call requesting numbers that add up properly in a recipe a lecture, you're just dramatic.

maybe not angry, but certainly put out by people who don't do things your way. it's pretty clear.

Well I can take it as well as dish it out haha. Good luck, hope you find what you need here.

 

[fitzdevlin]

Just produced 1000ml of cold steeped 30PG/70VG NET juice! It's damn similar to BlackNote products. I used 2 500ml Ball jars each with 1.25oz (2.5oz total) of Peter Stokkebye's London Import and steeped each in 250ml (1 500ml jar) of PG ordered from Wizard labs for 6 weeks. I simply boiled water in the jars to purify (microwave) and went for it - no contamination.

I took 67tele's recommendation of Wizard Labs and simply ordered all my PG (500ml), VG (1000ml), 100mg/ml (150ml) PG nicotine and the nicotine test kit from them. This may have cost a little more, but well, one-stop shopping. I also went fancy and got a hand pump actuated Pyrex Büchner funnel (2.5μm fritted glass filter) and 1000ml flask for vacuum filtration (about $60 on ebay from China and good quality). It's a slow filtration process, but not as slow as the old coffee filter method, and the result is a very clean solution. I figured I'd make the initial investment, save money on store bought juice and clog-up my coils less. I've noticed very little difference in the clogging of my coils as compared to store bought 30/70 PG/VG.

After the cold steep was done, the process went like this: filtered the NET solution (PG) from both jars first through a small mesh kitchen sieve/strainer - a very basic kind of bowl style screen/strainer that happily fit perfectly into my 1000ml Pyrex kitchen measuring cup. I squeezed down on the saturated tobacco with a large spoon until the majority of juice had been separated and then tossed the left over tobacco. This solution was then poured into the Büchner funnel in 2 parts (the funnel only holds about 500ml), and pumped heavily - the pressure is maintained while the filtration works, so there is almost no need to continue pumping. The pressure gauge will reach a maximum pressure and continue to slowly draw the solution through the filter without much maintenance. In essence, the vacuum pressure established by pumping doesn't drop off because the volume of liquid/material keeps air from shorting out the process. The pressure you build by pumping stays very constant until the liquid is gone and air can enter the flask.

This is what the toolkit looked like (don't be too intimidated):

Note: vodka solely for the purpose of offsetting boredom.

In the photo are the following items from left to right essentially: empty 500ml Ball jars, small white nicotine test container, black digital scale for measuring tobacco, Ball jar pump that doesn't fit my jars, the stately mad scientist's Büchner funnel and flask, grey plastic hand pump (attaches with tubing contained in the funnel shown here), 2 jars of 100% VG (500ml each), 150ml PG nicotine solution (100mg/ml), nitrile gloves that come with the nicotine test kit, test kit instructions, small container of bromothymol (test kit), bottle of hydrochloric acid (test kit), filter papers that come with the Büchner funnel (didn't use, as they make the whole effort crawl - 15μm incidentally), 3ml syringes and different gauge needles for the test kit, and finally my lovely jars of cold steeped NET.

So what you don't see are the 1000ml and 300ml Pyrex kitchen grade measuring cups and the screen filter/sieve/strainer with apertures of probably 2mm or so...that and lots of paper towels to rinse and then dry everything with purified water (Zero Water filter) - the test kit called for distilled water, but I couldn't be bothered to go to the store and spend $1.50.

The recipe looked like this for the most part:

2.5oz of London Export steeped 6 weeks in 500ml of 100% PG
mixed 180ml tobacco/PG solution (some left over) w/
120ml (100mg/ml) nicotine PG solution
then w/ 700ml VG
this yielded a 12mg nicotine content.

The result was two 500ml jars of clean, beautiful tasting NET. Based on retail prices for 20-30ml bottles of juice (here in the Bay Area), this is a yield around the value of $600. BlackNote product prices make this NET even more worthwhile.

Here are some useful links:

67tele's post in response to my request for information from earlier in this thread

this is the calculator I used (Mac here, so few options):
http://..................../

supplies:
Wizard Labs

Büchner funnel purchase:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e1105...w.ebay.com/ulk/itm/262520038655&sojTags=bu=bu

Büchner funnel facts/how to keep clean:
http://www.ilpi.com/inorganic/glassware/frittedfunnel.html

bottles:
PE Products

So everyone understands, my reson for exploring NET juice is based on having smoked hand-rolled cigarettes for over 15 years; when I began to vape, I found that my only choice was to 'smoke candy.' I'm happy to be out of the cycle of crazy flavors like...well, you know. I'd be happy to add some flavor in small amounts to each 30ml bottle I fill just to experiment, but in general I wanted something more like a cigarette and less like a weird-... glowing soft drink/Axe body spray. One of the great things about this and other NETs like it is, they don't make everything smell like cheap perfume from CVS; get it on your hands, barely noticable. Spill some in your car, no one will know. I know many of you want the 'pinnapple, currant, vanilla' godzillas, but for those that want a simple, clean, virtually odor free nicotine and tobacco like vape, THIS IS IT. Don't get me wrong, a good hand-rolled London Export still tempts me, but this is a close as any company has come to reproducing the sensation of a good tobacco.

I'm sure I've left out the kind of information I found so hard to find in one place (thanks again 67tele), so please PM me with any questions; however know, I'll probably be slow to respond.

 

[fitzdevlin]

Since I see no link to edit my post, here's a correction: the Büchner funnel I got had a capacity of 350ml (not 500ml).