One last battery question - hope this WILL be the last.

[Papillon61]

I'm thinking of storing some batteries long term. I have the plastic boxes and I know all about keeping them in a cool place. So we will skip that part of the equation.

My question is more about voltage and battery capacity. I've read just about everywhere that batteries are best stored at 40% capacity. Does this refer to the voltage it reads on the charger or what is printed on the wrap. What I mean is - all my batteries say they are 3.7 volts but when they are fully charged they read 4.2 volts and that is when the charger cuts out.

So what exactly are the 3.7 and the 4.2 referring to and to what exactly does the 40% relate?

 

[Visus]

I'm thinking of storing some batteries long term. I have the plastic boxes and I know all about keeping them in a cool place. So we will skip that part of the equation.

My question is more about voltage and battery capacity. I've read just about everywhere that batteries are best stored at 40% capacity. Does this refer to the voltage it reads on the charger or what is printed on the wrap. What I mean is - all my batteries say they are 3.7 volts but when they are fully charged they read 4.2 volts and that is when the charger cuts out.

So what exactly are the 3.7 and the 4.2 referring to and to what exactly does the 40% relate?

When batts are shipped to us they are rested at ~3.7v I would assume 3.6-3.7v is a safe storage voltage.

 

[Mooch]

4.2V is the voltage you charge them to and the maximim they should ever operate at.
3.7V is the "nominal" voltage. This is the voltage the battery spends most of its time operating at when not being discharged hard (like what is typically done when vaping).

The 40% means that the battery is only charged up to 40% of its capacity in mAh, that is, it will only run for (roughly) 40% of the time a fully charged battery would. But, because lithium-ion batteries don't discharge in a nice linear fashion, you can't equate a certain charge percentage with particular voltage.

Batteries like being stored at lower voltages because that reduces the level of internal stuff going on that ages the cell. Anywhere from 20%-50% works well. That roughly equates to somewhere around 3.6V.

You don't have to worry too much about the actual voltage if you can vape them down to what you think is about halfway. Check the voltages every couple of months and recharge back up to 3.6V-3.7V any cell that has dropped below 3.4V or so.

You can probably go for several months without topping off the cells and continue storing them for years. But, these cells age even when not being used so if you want to store them for longer than, let's say, a year be prepared for those cells to not work as well as they did before you stored them.

 

[Papillon61]

Thank you so much for the comprehensive explanation. I'll never "know it all" but there is so much I have learned in this forum I'm slowly getting there.

 

[bluecat]

I have some aw 350 cells. I charged them up to max 4.2 ish a little over 6 months ago. I let my mvp and smok 50 both die at the same time. While I was charging them I went down into the basement by my work bench and tested the aws. One was 4.17 the other 4.05. Both work fine. Maybe not the exact question you ask but a little real world experience. I was surprised that the only discharged a little bit.

 

[Papillon61]

I have some aw 350 cells. I charged them up to max 4.2 ish a little over 6 months ago. I let my mvp and smok 50 both die at the same time. While I was charging them I went down into the basement by my work bench and tested the aws. One was 4.17 the other 4.05. Both work fine. Maybe not the exact question you ask but a little real world experience. I was surprised that the only discharged a little bit.

I think I can confirm that. I assume when I bought most of my batteries they were sent to me fully charged - at least it must have been the case for some of them. I used about 6 of them in rotation - the rest I put in the fridge door in the package they came in inside a ziplock back. Today I pulled them out of the fridge to test them one by one - most of them were at 4.17 - 4.15 - and this was after 2 months. I am now giving them all a full charge and intend using each of them down to about 40% capacity and packing them back into the fridge.

 

[edyle]

I'm thinking of storing some batteries long term. I have the plastic boxes and I know all about keeping them in a cool place. So we will skip that part of the equation.

My question is more about voltage and battery capacity. I've read just about everywhere that batteries are best stored at 40% capacity. Does this refer to the voltage it reads on the charger or what is printed on the wrap. What I mean is - all my batteries say they are 3.7 volts but when they are fully charged they read 4.2 volts and that is when the charger cuts out.

So what exactly are the 3.7 and the 4.2 referring to and to what exactly does the 40% relate?

store at 3.6 to 3.7 volts.

the 40% refers to

let's use
3.2 volts = 0%
4.2 volts = 100%
So 3.6 volts = 40% (i chose 3.2 because that just makes 10% change correspond nicely to 0.1 volt change)

 

[suprtrkr]

I don't have any better advice to offer than you're already hearing, but I can't let the thread go by without mentioning I find the concept of a "last battery question" highly amusing. I know a good bit about Li-chemsitry batteries, most of which I learned here on this board. I frequently share this knowledge with those on the board who haven't yet gotten it. But I surely don't know everything, or ever expect to, whether or no I have been able to formulate yet another battery question ;-) Vape on!

 

[Papillon61]

Oh I absolutely do not know everything and in fact I said so in my second post. That bit of the title I felt the need to put in because I have asked so many battery questions in the past couple of months I'm sure most of you are totally sick of me and whenever they see a question from me they go: Uh-ho, here she goes again. I was trying to pre-empt that

 

[suprtrkr]

Oh I absolutely do not know everything and in fact I said so in my second post. That bit of the title I felt the need to put in because I have asked so many battery questions in the past couple of months I'm sure most of you are totally sick of me and whenever they see a question from me they go: Uh-ho, here she goes again. I was trying to pre-empt that

lol, by no means. Ask away. If people get tired of answering, they'll stop answering ;-) Why, may I ask, are you storing batteries? You bougnt in bulk? FWIW, I just bought an Xtar charger that's supposed to be able to discharge batteries safely. If you're going to do a lot of that, you might want to look into it.

 

[bluecat]

Oh I absolutely do not know everything and in fact I said so in my second post. That bit of the title I felt the need to put in because I have asked so many battery questions in the past couple of months I'm sure most of you are totally sick of me and whenever they see a question from me they go: Uh-ho, here she goes again. I was trying to pre-empt that

Never. I always like any type of question from the new ones to the old ones. It opens up a dialogue. There may be some people that don't ask and just peruse the forums. It always reinforces years old information or allows new ones. 3 years ago this same thing I had questions on. What is storing? 1 week, six months, one year or 5 years? It was always a general store at 3.6 ish volts in a cool dry place. I still have no clue about time length. My little 6 months plus experiment told me 6 months is not a long storage time. Also in worst case, one can toss the batteries and buy new ones. I have some pf pannies that where topped of and been out of use for a year. I tested them and had similar results to the 6 month aws.

 

[Papillon61]

Well I got into mech mods because of the situation here in Europe and while I was at it I thought well I might as well get the batteries to go with them. I have 12 650s, 6 500s and 10 350s because most of my mods are telescopic or sets. I thought I'd put away what I don't really need to use.

 

[suprtrkr]

Well I got into mech mods because of the situation here in Europe and while I was at it I thought well I might as well get the batteries to go with them. I have 12 650s, 6 500s and 10 350s because most of my mods are telescopic or sets. I thought I'd put away what I don't really need to use.

makes sense. Things don't look all that good over on the other side of the pond. Assuming they don't get worse here too, I guess I'll have to buy a sailboat and become a blockade runner ;-)

 

[Papillon61]

makes sense. Things don't look all that good over on the other side of the pond. Assuming they don't get worse here too, I guess I'll have to buy a sailboat and become a blockade runner ;-)

My situation here is even worse than the rest of Europe. There are practically no vape shops here since it is not popular. And absolutely no one sells Nicbase, or even PG and VG for that matter. I need to purchase everything online. Now one thing I am sure will come into force very very soon (in fact it is already in force in a number of EU states) is the prohibition of cross-border sales. That will leave me high and dry (or is that very low and dry!! ). I would then have two options - either travel to somewhere where I can get stuff and smuggle it in or go back to smoking (which I am sure to do over time without a plausible alternative). That is probably going to effect not just juices but also equipment since one section of the TPD states that nicotine can only be sold in containers that do not leak... meaning first generation cartos I suppose ... so no tanks or drippers or high powered devices to activate them.

But I digress!

 

[opticruby]

Well I got into mech mods because of the situation here in Europe

Sounds like we've been doing the same thing. I've been stocking up on mechs along with all my other supplys. The thing thats bothering me is the availability of high drain batterys if the ban goes ahead (and it probaly will).

I was wandering about AC to DC convertors.

 

[suprtrkr]

My situation here is even worse than the rest of Europe. There are practically no vape shops here since it is not popular. And absolutely no one sells Nicbase, or even PG and VG for that matter. I need to purchase everything online. Now one thing I am sure will come into force very very soon (in fact it is already in force in a number of EU states) is the prohibition of cross-border sales. That will leave me high and dry (or is that very low and dry!! ). I would then have two options - either travel to somewhere where I can get stuff and smuggle it in or go back to smoking (which I am sure to do over time without a plausible alternative). That is probably going to effect not just juices but also equipment since one section of the TPD states that nicotine can only be sold in containers that do not leak... meaning first generation cartos I suppose ... so no tanks or drippers or high powered devices to activate them.

But I digress!

That doesn't sound good. Good luck with it. I am not sure about Europe, but PG and VG are used in a lot of stuff besides e-juices. A chemical supply shop can probably provide them. PM follows about nic base.

 

[Papillon61]

Sounds like we've been doing the same thing. I've been stocking up on mechs along with all my other supplys. The thing thats bothering me is the availability of high drain batterys if the ban goes ahead (and it probaly will).

A ban on batteries you mean? Is that possible? I mean aren't high(ish) drain batteries used for other thins as well?

 

[opticruby]

A ban on batteries you mean? Is that possible? I mean aren't high(ish) drain batteries used for other thins as well?

Not so much a ban but a huge drop in demand. From what I can gather things like VTC's are brought in large quanties from sony and broken down into single cells to be sold on to us vapers. I doubt sony would sell me a couple of single batterys.

 

[suprtrkr]

Sounds like we've been doing the same thing. I've been stocking up on mechs along with all my other supplys. The thing thats bothering me is the availability of high drain batterys if the ban goes ahead (and it probaly will).

I was wandering about AC to DC convertors.

That's possible. There's also no reason AC wouldn't work on a coil.

 

[edyle]

Sounds like we've been doing the same thing. I've been stocking up on mechs along with all my other supplys. The thing thats bothering me is the availability of high drain batterys if the ban goes ahead (and it probaly will).

I was wandering about AC to DC convertors.

I use ac/dc converters;
bought 5 a few months ago; 40watt, magnetics usa; 3 volts to 12 volts in 1.5 volt steps.
I use them mostly at 7.5 volts as input to my vamo's;
rigged up the adapter by using bolts nuts and rubber washers