Updated!! Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

[schismz]

So .....how are businesses supposed to pay for lawsuits in their individual State, to stay in business, and lawsuits against the FDA, to stay in business, and for PMTAs, to stay in business, to sell something they are going to be taxed to hell and back on, to stay in business......

They're not. That's the point- to steam-roll over vaping and destroy the industry as it exists right now, to make the world safe for cigarette company profits and tobacco bonds. Followed by a few years of lawsuits as the FDA's insane over-reach gets pushed back (you're trying to regulate flavorings, wick, wire, batteries? Really?). Culminating in: something that kinda resembles a "vape industry" re-emerging from the ashes in 3-5 years.

It's gonna be a long 3-5 years.

 

[mattiem]

I know you are upset rudedog. We are all upset but forum still apply

 

[rudedog]

I know you are upset rudedog. We are all upset but forum still apply

didnt even see your comment til i edited it but yes your right and i did overeact.just complete bull and im sick and tired of it,they do this with guns/parts for guns you name it.this isnt a new tactic,been going on forever!they are SORRY scum!!

 

[Verb]

Absolutely correct, so long as you keep the receipts or invoices showing that you paid the "proper" and legal taxes at the time of purchase (even if that was zero $) you're good to go.

If it was an out-of-state internet purchase, I hope folks claimed & paid the 6% on their income tax. At least for purchases made this year before October 1st pay the 6% so it's legal.

If you want to be a good worker bee and pay the tax as an unclassified importer you will actually have to pay 48.4% of the purchase price. The excise tax usually gets taxed by sales tax.

 

[Katmar]

If it was an out-of-state internet purchase, I hope folks claimed & paid the 6% on their income tax. At least for purchases made this year before October 1st pay the 6% so it's legal.

If you want to be a good worker bee and pay the tax as an unclassified importer you will actually have to pay 48.4% of the purchase price. The excise tax usually gets taxed by sales tax.

 

[z80kid]

EDIT: Chris Hughes (a great guy) from Fat Cat Vapor Shop wrote on Facebook:

This is a sad day for all of us. But it certainly sounds like Chris Hughes is getting what he voted for.

Here we have a bad tax proposed by a Democrat Governor and voted for by 68 Democrats and 48 Republicans. And his solution is to tell everyone to vote Democrat? I'll bet he recommends banging your head against the wall to cure a migraine too.

This total lack of political awareness on the part of people who blindly support political parties as if they were football teams is exactly how we wind up in these messes to begin with.

 

[MikeE3]

If it was an out-of-state internet purchase, I hope folks claimed & paid the 6% on their income tax. At least for purchases made this year before October 1st pay the 6% so it's legal.

If you want to be a good worker bee and pay the tax as an unclassified importer you will actually have to pay 48.4% of the purchase price. The excise tax usually gets taxed by sales tax.

You're assuming PA doesn't get the process & regs in place to stop on-line vendors from shipping into the state like exists for wine, beer, & spirits. It could get even worse for us.


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[DPLongo22]

This is desperately sad. The State of Pennsylvania has just passed a bill which places a 40% tax on the wholesale price of vaping products sold in the state.

Significantly, this includes a "floor tax" meaning that the day after the bill is enacted, each vape store must pay the state a sum equal to 40% of the value of all inventory currently held by that store.

Put simply, most vape stores will not be able to pay this, and will shut up shop.

It's hard to imagine why Pennsylvania would do this. The tax clearly won't bring any significant revenues if stores close and vapers buy their product out of state via online and interstate purchasing. It looks to me like a move to purposely shut the stores down.

It's also yet another wake up call for vapers everywhere. If you're not a member of CASAA, please join so you can get a heads up on any action concerning your state. In a matter of weeks we've witnessed the closing down of the vape industry in two US States. It's doubtful they'll be the last.

EDIT: Chris Hughes (a great guy) from Fat Cat Vapor Shop wrote on Facebook:

Not for nothing, Oliver, and with ALL due respect, trying to make this a partisan issue is both misleading, and downright incorrect.

BOTH parties were completely complicit in this, and their governor, a Democrat, couldn't sign the bill quickly enough.

Instead of blaming one of the parties, voters should check the votes (available to the public at (House) House Roll Calls - 2015 RCS# 1673 and (Senate) Senate Roll Calls - 2015 RCS# 646, then vote out everyone who supported the measure - regardless of which party they belong to.

I'm sure Mr. Hughes IS a great guy, and he's clearly a great Democrat. But I couldn't disagree with his assessment of this issue any more than I do.

Vote wisely.

 

[DPLongo22]

This is a sad day for all of us. But it certainly sounds like Chris Hughes is getting what he voted for.

Here we have a bad tax proposed by a Democrat Governor and voted for by 68 Democrats and 48 Republicans. And his solution is to tell everyone to vote Democrat? I'll bet he recommends banging your head against the wall to cure a migraine too.

This total lack of political awareness on the part of people who blindly support political parties as if they were football teams is exactly how we wind up in these messes to begin with.

Or that. Thanks.

Following blindly will lead us into walls.

 

[MikeE3]

Not for nothing, Oliver, and with ALL due respect, trying to make this a partisan issue is both misleading, and downright incorrect.

BOTH parties were completely complicit in this, and their governor, a Democrat, couldn't sign the bill quickly enough.

Instead of blaming one of the parties, voters should check the votes (available to the public at (House) House Roll Calls - 2015 RCS# 1673 and (Senate) Senate Roll Calls - 2015 RCS# 646, then vote out everyone who supported the measure - regardless of which party they belong to.

I'm sure Mr. Hughes IS a great guy, and he's clearly a great Democrat. But I couldn't disagree with his assessment of this issue any more than I do.

Vote wisely.

Yep, the blame is on both sides. My wife and I looked at the voting record, legislators we 'liked', well, not any more.


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[Alien Traveler]

While all negatives are still negatives, I'd like to point on silver lining: it is a great lesson on democracy.

 

[bigdancehawk]

Hey Gang, I am a Liquid manufacturer from Philadelphia and need to say something..
We here in PA are strong supporters of our advocacy groups and that is one thing PA never lacked from ... Everywhere you looked on the ecig PA groups there were meets galore going on wich were majority sponsoring proceeds going to SFATA , raffles to support these advocacy groups, Cloud comps to support , etc... In Bucks County Pretty much 99% of every meet thrown had a Raffles with 100% of the proceeds going towards SFATA..
My point is that it doesnt seem to matter , if these dam politicians want the tax, law or bill passed it will PASS.!!!!
And if it the outcome is that a Bill, law or tax will be passed at least you can hold your head up and say you did your part and didnt give up..... Never Give Up......Dont let them just walk in and take it without a Fight.....

What is your take on the fact that all "tobacco" products have taken a big hit except cigars, which aren't subject to any excise tax at all? Cigars were originally included in the bill and were to be taxed at the 40% rate. However, it appears that cigars are big business in PA and these businesses have serious political muscle.
ETA: PA is one of only two states that don't have an excise tax on cigars, the other being FL.

 

[TUS172]

PA just created a new black market for bootlegged vape products. The era of Prohibition has been mentioned before when the "Deeming" came out. Every current vape consumer will feel the same pressure... Back street "Speak Easy" comes to mind.
Every entity that is now profiting in illicit trade from booze to .... and from knock-off DVDs to "only God knows what else", will jump on the new bandwagon! Party time for the gangs! This just makes me wanna puke!

 

[daviedog]

AMEN..... Absolutely, these dam cigarettes are floating around more freely than our vaping products, and the retroactive check for 40% of your inventory, ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING, TOM WOLF YOU SHAME ON YOU , YOU CALL YOURSELF AN AMERICAN WHEN YOU TAKE A HUGE DUMP ON SMALL BUSINESS, YOU DIDNT JUST HIT US WITH A TAX, YOU FRIGGIN PARALYZED US AND THAT WAS YOUR INTENTIONS...

The irony is when you pay the TAX, you feed the beast that is devouring You..

 

[TUS172]

What is your take on the fact that all "tobacco" products have taken a big hit except cigars, which aren't subject to any excise tax at all? Cigars were originally included in the bill and were to be taxed at the 40% rate. However, it appears that cigars are big business in PA and these businesses have serious political muscle.
ETA: PA is one of only two states that don't have an excise tax on cigars, the other being FL.

PA will be followed by other states. For me and I am sure others it is ironic... Before I went to vaping I had a 50 cigar humidor at work and a 600 cigar humidor at home... Had at least 2 cigars a day along with my cigarettes. Sold it all off after I got into vaping. It looks as if in the near future cigars and cigarettes will be among the cheapest of any "tobacco" product. Of course you must consider what "cheap" might be after the deeming has come into full effect. JC...Talk about trying to drive people back to a deadly habit.

 

[smknomore]

This is terrible news. it seems like the oligarchy of the dark ages is being resurrected. Dont think they will stop until they own and control everything. Lords and Barons verses the Surfs sorta stuff. But worse because of satellites and technology. Also once we mature enough to quit buying junk then they have no use for us, hence the "death panels" if your not a hyper consumer then no need to expel Co^2 right.

 

[Rossum]

They're not. That's the point- to steam-roll over vaping and destroy the industry as it exists right now, to make the world safe for cigarette company profits and tobacco bonds. Followed by a few years of lawsuits as the FDA's insane over-reach gets pushed back (you're trying to regulate flavorings, wick, wire, batteries? Really?). Culminating in: something that kinda resembles a "vape industry" re-emerging from the ashes in 3-5 years.

I want no part of the heavily regulated, highly taxed, mega-corp controlled "industry" that may re-emerge. I'll not support them in any way.

 

[swampergene]

What is your take on the fact that all "tobacco" products have taken a big hit except cigars, which aren't subject to any excise tax at all? Cigars were originally included in the bill and were to be taxed at the 40% rate. However, it appears that cigars are big business in PA and these businesses have serious political muscle.
ETA: PA is one of only two states that don't have an excise tax on cigars, the other being FL.

It is beyond insanity. According to the very clear wording of this new bill, any vapor product sold in PA right down to batteries and tanks is a tobacco product...while a premium cigar made of nothing BUT tobacco is not a tobacco product. Nothing like making up your own rules just to allow you to extort money from other people!

 

[Str8vision]

I want no part of the heavily regulated, highly taxed, mega-corp controlled "industry" that may re-emerge. I'll not support them in any way.

Me either. Nor will I be paying the government (state or federal) any form of vape tax or fees, they'll not extort a single penny from me, they already -take- far more than they should. Yet another reason I chose to stockpile critical items/supplies, it completely removes greedy, corrupt politicians/government from my vaping lifestyle....for 15 to 20 years anyway. Hopefully the people who vape/live in PA have planned accordingly.

 

[BackDoc]

While all negatives are still negatives, I'd like to point on silver lining: it is a great lesson on democracy.

We were founded as a Republic, not a Democracy.......two different animals..........what's worse is now we are Neither