Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

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Trayce

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I'm about to go out for the night, so haven't had a chance to read the past page or so back..

BUT, it looks like I'm going to have to buy some more STOCK Kanger Coil-Heads , for the first time in like 4 months!! I just saw that my buddy had a new protank coil, and the grommet was SILICONE instead of RUBBER!! So possibly no more burny taste on the rebuilds, hopefully?? I can't wait to grab some of these and tear them apart, LOL

..... Besides, I'm running low on coil-heads to rebuild on, anyways :)

I am not sure that Kanger is making the new heads available as replacement heads yet. They are putting them in devices but haven't seen them available in 5-packs or singly... has anyone else? If you want them specifically better ask the vendor if they are the new ones before shelling out money.
 

MacTechVpr

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I think a great many already do. :) I am just following the lead of the veterans who are so kind to share their knowledge. I don't belong included in that sentence and that's not false humility. I feel very fortunate there are so many innovative and friendly people who are always bringing knowledge back to the rest of us.

You're a good sorta fella Trayce. You resemble my tribe. Come, we'll poke a feather in ya.

Lots of ingenious and helpful people on ECF. It's so huge though the community and contributions it's rather maddening. Nothing like a little gratitude and acknowledgement to encourage us all. It's a tough road for many of us.

If finding a "home" is the answer, I kinda settled here and in Metalhed's thread to round up a few things that amazed me. A few of the most effective techniques and results that help build a bridge for the advancing newb to successful repeatability. One thing in particular is the effectiveness of known wind diameters. The impact that this has on resistance. And the Kanger's in particular I thought a good platform for demonstration because the demands of such tanks are so particular. I would have liked to have seen that early on and I certainly thank Metalhed for taking the time to run the photo sequences on coil stabilization. That to most I believe is far more important that the mere issue of wick media. I'm sure there are numerous other examples we've neither run across. I was just surprised that it seemed no one had undertaken to do it. But I've come to understand why it's so difficult to keep things in tidy order…this technology has and is evolving so damned fast.

It's awesome so many kick in routinely to unwind this road. Thank you Trayce.

Have a great day, and

Good luck.

:)
 

Trayce

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Lots of ingenious and helpful people on ECF. It's so huge though the community and contributions it's rather maddening. Nothing like a little gratitude and acknowledgement to encourage us all. It's a tough road for many of us.

If finding a "home" is the answer, I kinda settled here and in Metalhed's thread to round up a few things that amazed me. A few of the most effective techniques and results that help build a bridge for the advancing newb to successful repeatability. One thing in particular is the effectiveness of known wind diameters. The impact that this has on resistance. And the Kanger's in particular I thought a good platform for demonstration because the demands of such tanks are so particular. I would have liked to have seen that early on and I certainly thank Metalhed for taking the time to run the photo sequences on coil stabilization. That to most I believe is far more important that the mere issue of wick media. I'm sure there are numerous other examples we've neither run across. I was just surprised that it seemed no one had undertaken to do it. But I've come to understand why it's so difficult to keep things in tidy order…this technology has and is evolving so damned fast.

It's awesome so many kick in routinely to unwind this road. :)

Ain't it the truth! And yes, it's wild how the ID of the coil has so much to do with flavor! Who woulda thunk it?

Certainly everyone's contributions and experiences to these boards help the vaping community, newbies, intermediates and veteran road blazers alike. And it's very good of you to want to make the road a little easier for those who follow; but yeah, technology changes fast and the sheer amount of info to take in when new to the vaping world is something we take for granted once we have absorbed it!
 

jotook24tovaip

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Wow, this thread has BOOM! Blown my mind. Since reading it I have built single and double coils for my little squid (Smok) and for my evod. Just now 12:00 central time finished my first dual evod rebuild came out to 1.6 ohms, a little low but hey first one! IMG_20131117_001506.jpg
First, a huge thanks to all! I am so glad I have found ecf. I just laugh when my friends tell me they want to check out the forum but don't. You can lead a horse etc. Since I occasionally miss a page what do you guys do to stop the taste (bad) from homemade coils? Is it just me? I try to touch the wick and wire as little as possible but I can tell a head I have built instantly by the different taste it has. It gets better after the first fill but I must be doing something wrong. I got my supplies from gotvapes. 32 awg wire and 1mm and 2mm wick the thinner wire and wick helps to fit the evods yet let's me get a few wraps on the dual coils 3.6 or so solo. Don't think I will keep rebuilding if I can't beat this funky taste thing.
 

MacTechVpr

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Wow, this thread has BOOM! Blown my mind. Since reading it I have built single and double coils for my little squid (Smok) and for my evod.

Great! If you think that's something, wait 'till you build that first stabilized contact (micro coil) for the eVod. Maybe your head will explode! LOL

I want to take a minute to point you to another thread that was utterly illuminating to me months ago…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/428974-xc-116-vs-ekowool.html

that I think will encourage you even more.

Along with that to acknowledge the prolific contributions of a number of participants there namely, in post order...pdib, super_X_drifter, vapdivrr, darkzero on that thread and others of their findings along with photographs, videos, instructions, advice and encouragement. Really excellent examples of the outstanding members in this ECF community. You'd do well to research their posts and threads in which they participate.

Good luck Jo!

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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...finished my first dual evod rebuild came out to 1.6 ohms, a little low but hey first one!...Is it just me? I try to touch the wick and wire as little as possible but I can tell a head I have built instantly by the different taste it has. It gets better after the first fill but I must be doing something wrong. I got my supplies from gotvapes. 32 awg wire and 1mm and 2mm wick the thinner wire and wick helps to fit the evods yet let's me get a few wraps on the dual coils 3.6 or so solo. Don't think I will keep rebuilding if I can't beat this funky taste thing.

Jo a couple of things come immediately to mind based on problems I encountered at the outset. First, and your low res. suggests this, is that you might have an intermittent short. You would get lower than your expected. And the resulting vape more muted, drier, hotter and not tasting as you expected. As the wick becomes more saturated and the coil oxidizes you might see a slight improvement. But still not optimal. A suggestion to exclude this — check the coil you made before and as you disassemble, particularly your positive connection and height of the coil relative to the top cap, for any sign of possible contact whether the top cap, wall of the assembly cup or the negative leg (due to intertwined legs). If so this will point the way to tighten up your build. If you missed it, see my post #19, on Pg. 2.


The other is the wicking material if you're using anything other than silica. I've gotten versions of Ekowool that needed extensive washes. Sometimes when I failed to prepare adequately it would improve after installation. But again, usually not the best.

Let us know how you make out, will ya? Or check back in.

Good luck!
 

steel bender

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Built me some coils for the first time last week, and they are a marked improvement over the stock. I do have a small problem with a leak, more like an ooze, usually just wets the battery terminal top. I use the cotton yarn as the wick, all 4 strands threaded through the coil, nothing on top. I've had no dry hits/burning, wicking very good. Tell me, am I over- or under-wicked (ie - do I need to toss a strand or two on top), or is there maybe some assembly thing going on?

Do you still have the insulator still on the top of the atomizer seated the correct way, not upside down or removed as some others like to do for improved wicking? Some people like to do this, but i've never had to because I've never gotten dry hits. If you still have this in place then I would add two strands over the top (flavor wicks). Keeping in mind it also possible to get gurgling/flooding from trying to cram too much wick into the coil/on top of it. For every build/juice concentration there is a perfect amount of wick required. Either too much or too little can cause flooding or dry hits and you may have to just keep experimenting until you get it right. For me, I also had to switch from 80/20 pg/vg juice to 50/50 because the thinner juice was flooding it seemed like no matter what I did.
 

M_DuBb716

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So I'm vaping on a stock coil right now, for the first time in months. It is horrible.. I feel like all I can taste is the silica, I'm so used to cotton now. And I can't go above 6watts or it tastes burnt!

I went to rewick my most recent MC last night, filled up my tank, and it started leaking a LOT.. I think I didn't use enough cotton. When I took the coil apart to see what was wrong, all of the cotton had disappeared! I think it sank under the actual coil, so I'm using a stock-coil for now
 

MacTechVpr

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So I'm vaping on a stock coil right now, for the first time in months. It is horrible.. I feel like all I can taste is the silica, I'm so used to cotton now. And I can't go above 6watts or it tastes burnt!

I went to rewick my most recent MC last night, filled up my tank, and it started leaking a LOT.. I think I didn't use enough cotton. When I took the coil apart to see what was wrong, all of the cotton had disappeared! I think it sank under the actual coil, so I'm using a stock-coil for now

Tell me about it M. I'm testing a clearo and a coil design for a vendor's flavor stations. Three days now. Not bad vapor @ 1.8Ω but the silica taste is overwhelming and after 6 half mil tank fills the coils go gunk junk. It's pure torture 'till I can call the demise of these beasts.

I can't get the match for this one RDA either. It is frustrating.

Not our day, huh?

:grr:
 

M_DuBb716

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Heh, definitely not our day Mac.. I was in a rush when my last coil went to crap so I just popped on the stock-coil.. I took out HALF of 1 of the flavor wicks before I filled my tank; I've tried taking out a full wick but it leaked everytime.
.. Anyways, at first it said it was 2.9Ω, so I unscrewed it, turned off my eVic, screwed my protank back on, and turned back on my battery - that time it said it was 2.6Ω.. I vaped it for awhile and now it's 2.5Ω, it looked like 6 wraps (regular stock coil)..

Decent vapor but not much flavor and it tastes like silica, and will probably only last me 2 days total. But I can't justify tearing apart a new coil to rebuild it before I ever use it, so I'll vape this til I can't handle it anymore lol. And I have still yet to even vape on an RDA/RBA, I know I'm really missing out!

Back to microcoils though, hah. I'm really glad this thread is helping some of you out! You guys have really been helping me out too, I appreciate it
 

MacTechVpr

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Back to microcoils though, hah. I'm really glad this thread is helping some of you out! You guys have really been helping me out too, I appreciate it

That's what I'm here for. I needs the help! If I can leave a little along the way, we'll that's just dandy.

Heh, definitely not our day Mac..

Well worse for me yesterday M. I fudged three perfect coils fumbling twice pulling the legs off a third. I packed it in and got up early to try again. Hey it happens to all of us. Sometimes we can't seem to do a dang thing. Tanks have their optimal. We do too. No shame in that.

Back to you on what I rebuilt when I backtrack to your post.

:)
 

Jellyfish

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I can't get the match for this one RDA either. It is frustrating.

Not our day, huh?

Welcome to my world! :p

But what I really wanted to ask is whether these microcoil builds as discussed in this (primarily) ProTank thread are transportable to other devices. The reason I ask is that I built a 10/9 wrap cotton MC for a new RTA that I got and it was fantastic! I was wondering whether I just got lucky that it worked out this way in this one case or if this was a common occurrence?

Thanks!!!
 

MacTechVpr

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...I believe the 2.1Ω MC I'm vaping on now is 11 wraps; and I'm pretty sure when I do only 10 wraps of 30ga, I always get about 1.8-1.9Ω resistance reading on my eVic

Linking back to your post #30 M which got me questioning some of my results. And the reason I brought this up you probably realize by now. As we edge out minute shorts by tightening our builds the resistance values go down. And this has very much been one of the objectives of the tables I've been building and excerpted here. I think the tanks have sweet zones Kanger targets. I've been trying to tightly target them myself. How? At the nominal wind diameter spec/s. We know their values in resistance. I've endeavored to find the corresponding wire lengths through stabilized quantified builds.

My question to you was about your 10/11 wrap result for which I've had a lowest minimal tight build of 2.23Ω with many exact confirmations. Your results were far lower. My doubts were prompted by possible equipment error, including eVic false reads, on my end. So I promised to redo one for you. And I did do a 9 turn and posted that picture for you but never metered it on a proper ohmmeter. This morning I built three m.c.'s at 9/8, 1.75mm i.d. resulting in two at a new stat low of 1.99Ω and one at 2.03Ω (I got tired and sloppy). That last though has been the number I most often hit; and, I've lost count for this particular wind. I'd estimate a few dozen and a half builds so I stopped logging them. I have two matching desktop ohmmeters and both register identically and exactly. And all registered precisely across two separate eVics. I did not meter them externally which I should do and will as I have the opportunity. I pull these out routinely but less so with the 10 wraps like the one I mentioned and answered you about at post #40.

Anyway M here are some pic's of one of those builds…

img_0464a.jpg img_0465a.jpg img_0467a.jpg img_0469a.jpg img_0475a.jpg

The first one may give you an idea what wear and tear I've put these tanks through. The last the confirmed resistance for this 9/8 wind. I also take this opportunity to show a slight fudge evident in the 4th and 5th pic. I broke a procedural rule in that I did not ensure the legs were diametrically opposed before setting the grommet fully in place. I had to go back and fix this to get to 1.99Ω or that would never happen. It's a matter of wire length. Now this should be doom. You can't just pull on the positive leg to the right without further dislodging the outer loop. The trick is to place the thumb on the wire end then rotate the grommet. The wire will rotate freely into place with it. I pulled the grommet out slightly and pulled in that leg once rotated into position. Also, to add to a point you raised earlier, I do a final burn on each coil; and, yes, do compress them in place at least a couple of times. In this instance, I don't recall if perhaps another 2 to 3 burns were required to perfect a join of all coils

Bottom line: Knowing those optimal best targets for the tank and a given wind i.d. is what keeps us from having to poke around in the shadows for answers. We shouldn't have to by the 10's of thousands of newb's. We need them to adopt and adapt. Why? Because we face a strong headwind M. And the storm is coming in the form of antagonism and opportunism towards our activity. I am highly motivated. I need to do this to survive for reasons I won't expound on here but to say I tried to quit eight times with not the best results. So it's not out of a mere sense of altruism but some genuine and freely acknowledged self-interest.

I guess what I'm proposing here is that more of us should post such specific results. Perhaps encouraged by a pinned spreadsheet or log of user events the best results logged and nominal averages noted. In other words a guide. Perhaps I am quite far off in my build. I don't believe I'm far off and more likely mainstream of what can be achieved. I'm not going to the moon here. While not practical for other rebuildables, for a common mass-produced article like the Protank this info is extremely helpful. Noted therefore an update for achieved lowest resistance for PT1/2, 30 AWG at 1.75mm…

30AWG, 10/9 1.58mm i.d., microcoil = 2.23Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., m.c., tight = 1.99Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1.58mm i.d. (XC-132), microcoil = 1.81√
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., microcoil = 1.78 √
30AWG, 7/6 1.58mm i.d. (XC-132), microcoil = 1.57Ω √

If a broomstick's a better template for you thereafter, more power to you. At least you know where you started.

Good luck all!

:)
 

steel bender

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Tell me about it M. I'm testing a clearo and a coil design for a vendor's flavor stations. Three days now. Not bad vapor @ 1.8Ω but the silica taste is overwhelming and after 6 half mil tank fills the coils go gunk junk. It's pure torture 'till I can call the demise of these beasts.

I can't get the match for this one RDA either. It is frustrating.

Not our day, huh?

:grr:

Uh oh, I've only recently switched to cotton from silica, btw, so does this mean I'll prolly never want to go back? :)
 

MacTechVpr

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Welcome to my world! :p

But what I really wanted to ask is whether these microcoil builds as discussed in this (primarily) ProTank thread are transportable to other devices. The reason I ask is that I built a 10/9 wrap cotton MC for a new RTA that I got and it was fantastic! I was wondering whether I just got lucky that it worked out this way in this one case or if this was a common occurrence?

Thanks!!!

Very funny. And, absolutely! I pull these out of duty in Protank's and others directly into RDA's as I need a given resistance. Now mind you the legs on a Protank coil are rather long. For most small droppers you have more than enough to install. On 23mm devices not necessarily the case. But you wouldn't want to be using 29-32 AWG necessarily. Net, you will see a lower resistance if you install a PT coil in a Nimbus with a shorter leg length. But you'll be close. So I save all my coils!

You never know 'till the time is right.

;)
 

TafkanX

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I've been meaning to get into rebuilding my Kanger heads prior to getting into true RBAs so I've been following this information closely. I have a vapemail package on the way with some kanthal wire in it and I have a ton of cotton balls laying around already so I'm hoping to have my first go at it tomorrow night.

I appreciate all the information put forth in this thread and I'm looking forward to sharing my results.
 

beckdg

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just wanted to pop in and say you guys are awesome. been following this thread for a short while now. i'd seen the rip trippers vid and honestly, just waived it off for the time being. my thinking was more along the lines of finding what works before looking for big billowing clouds.

however... i was wrong. :gasp:

now i'm new to this... very new... a pro tank and a vamo were part of my starter kit. :yay me: i'm a fast learner. or more, i tend to go straight to the cow for milk. (just as an analogy... i'm closer to a city boy)

either way. this discussion piqued my interest and reworked my thinking on the rip trippers vid. (and subsequently the viewing of those dilating pupils WOAH!) since that point, i've been making it a point to make tighter coils with more turns. i'm not quite making micro coils and haven't been burning them in tight other than one or two cotton builds. however... flavor intensity and vapor production have been out of this world. being freshly out of smoking with a habit of up to 4 packs a day, the difference noted has been tremendously satisfying and refreshing.

before i started making the tighter coils, i was still craving stinkies. i think having to suck and suck to get a decent vapor with some throat hit was a big factor. but the flavor... man oh man... that really brings it home in the satisfaction department.

again... thanks fellas. keep up the good work. your audience (at least of 1) is depending on it.
 
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