The 2/3rd, 1/3rd comes from the vaper not inhaling, trying to take in as little as possible - a puff-in quick puff-out. In that case the 1/3rd nic would have been exhaled. But still quiet diluted as compared to the e-liquid that produced the nic in the puff. What the analog "puffing method experiment" showed was that changing method of "hold" greatly increased absorption if "normal" or "deep" inhales taken. On vapor droplet, what kind of vapor are you talking about? What is the "very interesting phenomenon"? My suspicion is that you are talking about particle size and smaller particles apparently carrying deeper into lungs. But don't know that.
Second Hand e-Smoke
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The 2/3rd, 1/3rd comes from the vaper not inhaling, trying to take in as little as possible - a puff-in quick puff-out. In that case the 1/3rd nic would have been exhaled. But still quiet diluted as compared to the e-liquid that produced the nic in the puff. What the analog "puffing method experiment" showed was that changing method of "hold" greatly increased absorption if "normal" or "deep" inhales taken. On vapor droplet, what kind of vapor are you talking about? What is the "very interesting phenomenon"? My suspicion is that you are talking about particle size and smaller particles apparently carrying deeper into lungs. But don't know that.
JW is right about the smaller particles being carried deeper into the lungs. Think about how an asthma inhaler works; the droplets are micro sized so when the user takes a puff and inhales, the medication is carried to the lungs. Larger droplets will just deposit on the larynx and dissipate as we breathe. Vapor is going to work almost the same way. The only difference is that we inhale and exhale what we know as vapor, but the nicotine is deposited inside our mouths. Some might make it down to the lungs and be absorbed. What we exhale isn't going to be the same as what was inhaled. There's no way that's possible.
The main factor concerning second hand vapor is actually dilution. As the vapor dissipates into the air, the concentration of all exhaled substances is reduced very rapidly. The level of nicotine beyond 4 feet from you is low enough that, even after a day of vaping near someone, nicotine would not be detectable in their blood. OTOH, if you were to check your blood after standing 4 feet from their car's exhaust pipe for a while, carbon monoxide would be detectable in your bloodstream. Vaping isn't hazardous to other peoples' health, but cars are. Priorities, people. Hell, cars put out more stuff that causes lung cancer than even cigarettes. Folks smoked tobacco for centuries before the automobile hit the scene, but as smoking goes down and the number of cars on the road goes up, lung cancer becomes more common. [/rant]
To summarize this: No matter how much risk second hand vapor could potentially pose, people intentionally expose themselves to known high-risk emissions on a daily basis. An unknown very slight potential risk pales in comparison, even a scented candle is probably worse. Your vapor will hurt no one. (the obvious exception would be folks who have allergic reactions in the presence of fog machines)
To summarize this: No matter how much risk second hand vapor could potentially pose, people intentionally expose themselves to known high-risk emissions on a daily basis. An unknown very slight potential risk pales in comparison, even a scented candle is probably worse. Your vapor will hurt no one. (the obvious exception would be folks who have allergic reactions in the presence of fog machines)
Theres nothing to irritate anyones throat, so more than likely its more of a "smoke irritates my throat" mentality, IMHO
E cigs contain nicotine, but none of the other harmful additives in cigarettes. Nicotine on its own is highly addictive and we do not know yet the the health effects of inhaling pure nicotine, nor do we know what could happen if those toxic substances the FDA found could harm folks in close proximity to the "e-smoker." In a nutshell, until we know more, you may want to be more careful.
We aren't inhaling "pure nicotine." It's diluted to whichever strength we're vaping. Those toxic substances that the FDA found? They only found one or two (I think) bottles that were contaminated out of the few that they tested. Those were also from Chinese imports and a very limited test. I think that it's significant to point that out because now we have US juice makers and I feel that our juice is very safe.
If you want to err on the side of caution, then by all means, do it! Let's not spread more misinformation by saying we're vaping pure nicotine and the FDA found toxic substances in the juice.
A question: Why is second hand analog smoke supposed to be bad for people around you?
The common thought is that when a smoker blows out smoke that it contains the things that were in the smoke when the smoker inhaled the smoke. The body of the smoker did not 100% absorb all the Chemical Compounds in the inhaled smoke. So what is exhaled is dangerous.
Now fast forward to a vaper. He or She takes in a normal hit and exhales. Did the body absorb all of the chemical compounds found in the vapor? I saw no, the body Does Not. The fact that the person next to you can smell your Waffle e-Juice seems to lend itself to this. If the body had absorbed All of the chemical compounds in the vapor, there would be nothing to smell.
Now picture what the vapor coming out of your favorite e-Cig is made up of. To quote a famous Astrophysies (SP?), Billions And Billions And Billions of Minuscule Liquid Droplets. Not Particles like in analog smoke. Liquid Droplets like the ones that comes out off your coffee maker in the mourning.
Each one of these Tiny Droplets is like a soap bubble floating on the wind containing all the Chemical Compounds found in the e-Juice. PG. VG. Flavorings. Sweeteners. Colorants. And of course, our friend, Nicotine. Each one of these Droplets enter the Mouth as the vapor is inhaled.
Some of these Droplets come into contact with the surface of the Mouth, Throat and Nasal passages. Here they Can be absorbed by the body and deliver their Chemical payload. The body is Very well adapted to absorb Liquids thru the Mouth, Throat and Nasal passages.
But Many of the Droplets dont come in contact with the Mouth, Throat and Nasal passages. A good analogy is the air inside a balloon. The amount air that is in contact with the inside walls of the balloon is actually quite Small compared to the Total Volume of air Inside the balloon.
As the Droplets are drawn into the lungs, they encounter a much Different type of body tissue. The lung tissue does Not absorb Liquids well and that is a good thing. Because otherwise these Liquid Droplets would inhibit the lungs ability to process Oxygen and excrete Carbon Dioxide. You would essentially drowned.
So our Liquid Droplets containing all of the above mentioned Chemical Compounds bounce around until exhaled. Upon exhale some more are absorbed by the body in the Throat, Mouth and Nasal passages.
But the inhale / exhale process is not a 100% efficient process. Just as someone mentioned earlier, the body does not Fully metabolize all of the Oxygen that we breath in. In fact the lungs do a Numerical poor job of metabolizing the Available Oxygen because of the difference in the Surface Area of the lungs compared to the Volume of the lungs. Its that air in the balloon thing again.
So out comes a bunch of Unaltered Liquid vapor that we see when we exhale. This vapor went in and then came out and thats about it. The fact that you can smell the exhaled vapor and identify what Flavor a vaper is vaping lends itself to this.
But here in lies my premise. If an amount of Liquid Droplets went into the body and then came out unaltered, dont these Droplets contain All the Chemical Compounds that the had when they went in?
To make the math simple, say a person vapes 18mg e-juice and can in One hit take vaporize 1ml of e-juice. ( I know this is Not Realistic but it makes the Math simpler.)
So in the One hit, the vaper took in a Total of 18mg of Nicotine as well as a Bunch of VG, PG, Flavoring, Sweeteners and quite likely some Artificial Colorants. In it All goes and the process of absorbing the Liquid Droplets begins. Ill use 2/3 absorption rate just because that is a number that has been floating around and we have to use Some number. I personally believe that the number is Much lower but that can be debated.
2/3 of the Liquid Droplets are absorbed by the body and 1/3 are exhaled. The vaper just absorbed a Total of 12mg of Nicotine, as well as the VG, PG , Flavorings, Sweeteners and possible some Artificial Colorants. And on exhale, the vapor exhaled a Total 6mg of Nicotine and all the other Chemical Compounds. Forgive my slight round-off of the results but once again, it makes the Math easier to read.
So here is perhaps where the confusion was when I said that I believe that the Nicotine going In was the Same as the Nicotine going Out. The Total amount of Nicotine is less on exhale that on Inhale. Yes, I do agree. But the mg level per any given Unit Volume being exhaled is the Same.
Meaning that there Is less vapor being exhaled due to the body absorbing some of the vapor, but the mg Level of the Unabsorbed vapor coming out is Still 18mg/ml.
I hope this clarifies my earlier statements and gives the reader something to consider.
No matter what you believe, I think the best thing to consider is the post below. It is Right On the Money in my belief.
And was mentioned in another thread, Its Always the Nicotine. Personally I feel there is perhaps a Higher Health Risk from vaping Flavorings, Sweeteners and Artificial Colorants than in Nicotine but I leave that for Another thread.
The common thought is that when a smoker blows out smoke that it contains the things that were in the smoke when the smoker inhaled the smoke. The body of the smoker did not 100% absorb all the Chemical Compounds in the inhaled smoke. So what is exhaled is dangerous.
Now fast forward to a vaper. He or She takes in a normal hit and exhales. Did the body absorb all of the chemical compounds found in the vapor? I saw no, the body Does Not. The fact that the person next to you can smell your Waffle e-Juice seems to lend itself to this. If the body had absorbed All of the chemical compounds in the vapor, there would be nothing to smell.
Now picture what the vapor coming out of your favorite e-Cig is made up of. To quote a famous Astrophysies (SP?), Billions And Billions And Billions of Minuscule Liquid Droplets. Not Particles like in analog smoke. Liquid Droplets like the ones that comes out off your coffee maker in the mourning.
Each one of these Tiny Droplets is like a soap bubble floating on the wind containing all the Chemical Compounds found in the e-Juice. PG. VG. Flavorings. Sweeteners. Colorants. And of course, our friend, Nicotine. Each one of these Droplets enter the Mouth as the vapor is inhaled.
Some of these Droplets come into contact with the surface of the Mouth, Throat and Nasal passages. Here they Can be absorbed by the body and deliver their Chemical payload. The body is Very well adapted to absorb Liquids thru the Mouth, Throat and Nasal passages.
But Many of the Droplets dont come in contact with the Mouth, Throat and Nasal passages. A good analogy is the air inside a balloon. The amount air that is in contact with the inside walls of the balloon is actually quite Small compared to the Total Volume of air Inside the balloon.
As the Droplets are drawn into the lungs, they encounter a much Different type of body tissue. The lung tissue does Not absorb Liquids well and that is a good thing. Because otherwise these Liquid Droplets would inhibit the lungs ability to process Oxygen and excrete Carbon Dioxide. You would essentially drowned.
So our Liquid Droplets containing all of the above mentioned Chemical Compounds bounce around until exhaled. Upon exhale some more are absorbed by the body in the Throat, Mouth and Nasal passages.
But the inhale / exhale process is not a 100% efficient process. Just as someone mentioned earlier, the body does not Fully metabolize all of the Oxygen that we breath in. In fact the lungs do a Numerical poor job of metabolizing the Available Oxygen because of the difference in the Surface Area of the lungs compared to the Volume of the lungs. Its that air in the balloon thing again.
So out comes a bunch of Unaltered Liquid vapor that we see when we exhale. This vapor went in and then came out and thats about it. The fact that you can smell the exhaled vapor and identify what Flavor a vaper is vaping lends itself to this.
But here in lies my premise. If an amount of Liquid Droplets went into the body and then came out unaltered, dont these Droplets contain All the Chemical Compounds that the had when they went in?
To make the math simple, say a person vapes 18mg e-juice and can in One hit take vaporize 1ml of e-juice. ( I know this is Not Realistic but it makes the Math simpler.)
So in the One hit, the vaper took in a Total of 18mg of Nicotine as well as a Bunch of VG, PG, Flavoring, Sweeteners and quite likely some Artificial Colorants. In it All goes and the process of absorbing the Liquid Droplets begins. Ill use 2/3 absorption rate just because that is a number that has been floating around and we have to use Some number. I personally believe that the number is Much lower but that can be debated.
2/3 of the Liquid Droplets are absorbed by the body and 1/3 are exhaled. The vaper just absorbed a Total of 12mg of Nicotine, as well as the VG, PG , Flavorings, Sweeteners and possible some Artificial Colorants. And on exhale, the vapor exhaled a Total 6mg of Nicotine and all the other Chemical Compounds. Forgive my slight round-off of the results but once again, it makes the Math easier to read.
So here is perhaps where the confusion was when I said that I believe that the Nicotine going In was the Same as the Nicotine going Out. The Total amount of Nicotine is less on exhale that on Inhale. Yes, I do agree. But the mg level per any given Unit Volume being exhaled is the Same.
Meaning that there Is less vapor being exhaled due to the body absorbing some of the vapor, but the mg Level of the Unabsorbed vapor coming out is Still 18mg/ml.
I hope this clarifies my earlier statements and gives the reader something to consider.
No matter what you believe, I think the best thing to consider is the post below. It is Right On the Money in my belief.
And was mentioned in another thread, Its Always the Nicotine. Personally I feel there is perhaps a Higher Health Risk from vaping Flavorings, Sweeteners and Artificial Colorants than in Nicotine but I leave that for Another thread.
I've already had people start coughing and waving their hands around, thinking I was smoking an analogue. One woman started coughing as soon as I pulled my ecig out! I hadn't even taken a puff! I vap around my parrot all day, no problems at all.
Sorry, but I think you have many of the basic concepts wrong. To begin, the right on the money quote mentions "pure nicotine". Your 18mg/ml number clearly indicates we are not inhaling "pure nicotine". That 18mg/ml is 18 milligrams of nicotine per milliliter of liquid. The is 1.8% nicotine in that milliliter of liquid. And, as mentioned previously, we draw in a lot air with a vape - even more dilution.
In regard to the second hand analog smoke - let me suggest this reference: Clearing the Smoke: Assessing the Science Base for Tobacco Harm Reduction . In particular, you may want to read the Chapter 10. and 9. Chapter 10. in particular may help with some of the concept issues. You are right about the flavorings. You may want to read the mostly e-cig favorable New Zealand reports concerning some favoring contamination.
Pretty soon that parrot is going to be saying "You really should reduce the nic, Wac."
You are more that entitled to your opinion.
I won't argue the Semantics of "Pure Nicotine". One possible meaning of "Pure" could be Not obtained from the burning of Tobacco leaves.
I won't argue the Semantics of "Pure Nicotine". One possible meaning of "Pure" could be Not obtained from the burning of Tobacco leaves.
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Or if that parrot is a member of ASH, pretty soon saying "Cough, cough"
And if a smoking parrot with wing cancer, "eGo you! eGo me?"
And if that is a vaping parrot, "Mo nic, Wac"
lmao.... He's too young to vape... only 13 years old.
I wish I would have had a personal vaporizer years ago. I lost my little girlfriend, cockatiel, due to my damn analogs. I honestly didn't know how our animals suffer, because of analogs, until my little girlfriend developed severe breathing problems.
Now, my house smells soooooooo much better, I'm not coughing up my lungs, and I know I'm not hurting my Niki bird! He use to imitate my coughing... he's even stopped doing that!
I guess not it's like vapor coming out of a tea cup. Sometimes it hurts my eyes but that's when it's really steamy, the vapor is hot. When spreaded it isn't so bad at all. According to my wife, she's a non smoker/vaper.
Sorry to hear of the cockatiel. Analogs are evil. I think parrots usually have longer life time than humans so 13 for a parrot does seem too young to vape. But probably best to keep an eye on him for strange smelling weeds. Maybe a drug test every other month or so just to make sure your not missing something. Since cough, cough out now maybe " Smells sooooooooooo good. No backtrac, Wac. Smells sooooooooo good. No backtrac, Wac" for future.
It's WAC, not Wac.... Stands for Women's Army Corps, I'm a female Veteran, U.S. Army.
My Niki should outlive me by many, many years. I think your right about watching out on strange smelling weeds.... he is getting to be at that experimental age!
What is "backtrac"?
My grandson has asthma and is highly allergic to cigarette smoke but vapor from my vaporizer doesn't bother him at all.
Touchy it seems. It's in the rhyme - not the capitalization. (Unless your parrot pronounces WAC different from Wac). Backtrac is going backwards (e.g. backwards to analogs). Not trying to be offensive. WAC it is. But, "no backtrac, WAC".
Doubtful. Actually, my boss is okay with me vaping in our back room on my breaks. Whenever she comes in the back while I am puffing away, she says "that smells nice," and then asks "what flavor is that?" Also, the vapor dissipates so quickly, so I do not know how many people will actually inhale the second hand vapor.
txtumbleweed - If you would share the info: Age of grandson, how long allergic, do either parent smoke, have they ever, what type of allergic response, length of exposure (time) to onset of symptoms and length of symptoms after exposure. Is there absolute certainty that cigarette smoke is the allergen?
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