The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[Kent C]

Kent,

Thanks so much for the clarification. This whole history-of-RY4 thing is rife with hearsay, innuendo, gossip, semi-informed opinion, myth, axes to grind, innocent mistakes, misinterpretations, contradictory statements by the principals, etc. It's almost like a jigsaw puzzle where the pieces keep changing shape.

Ludo's posts on ECF tended to be a bit cryptic because he often wrote in a kind of shorthand without qualifying the specific boundaries or limitations. For instance, below is the text of the post you linked by Ludo, written in November 2010.

The thread was entitled: What is the Origin of Ruyan 4? (You even posted in that thread.) In post #16 of the thread someone asked who named RY4. Ludo replied in post #17:

"Janty did. I personally mixed the taste at a liquid manufacturer's premises, way back in 2008. And thus, RY4 became Janty's in house taste. It's the only taste I personally thought would be appreciated by many people. Last year we launched RY4X, that is Mik's mixture of PG and VG of the same formula."
​

OK, cool. But wait, Ludo wrote "2008." Janty's own copy on the RY4 product pages of its web site in years past claimed that Janty RY4 was "introduced on the market in 2007" In their current web site RY4 descriptions, however, no year is mentioned. So, which is it? 2007 or 2008? Best info I can come up with is 2007, but that may or may not be correct.

Also, Ludo doesn't specify in his post which Janty RY4 is the same recipe as RY4X. The only RY4s Janty offered in 2010 were from what is now called the Classic Series. I don't remember if the Elixir Series was introduced in late 2010 or 2011 (I think it was 2011, but I'm not sure). I know for certain that the Vitaya and DK Series didn't exist in 2010. So I assume that what Ludo meant was that RY4X used the same ingredient recipe/mix as what is now called RY4 Classic, but with a different base, a PG/VG blend rather than straight PG.

In the Janty Supplier Forum (which seems to no longer exist---perhaps Janty is no longer an ECF registered supplier), Ludo posted unequivocally that Janty RY4 DK-Series is his own original RY4 formula, the same one sold by Janty from 2007-2009 (his words), and that the Classic, Elixir, and Vitaya RY4s are revisions with altered recipe profiles. He even gave a timeline for Janty's various RY4s and described their differences.

Please understand, I'm not challenging your post. I'm just saying that sifting through all the information and misinformation is extremely challenging and often confusing.

Thanks for your post, and please feel invited to post anything else you know or learn about the history of RY4 or about RY4s in general.

I came upon your post in a search for another post in General eliquid forum. There I pointed out that "2008" was in error, that he most likely meant 2007 which has been said elsewhere. I'm 'sifting' too And you've probably run across my own RY posts - did a 'review' for the Janty RY 1,2,3, and 4 a while back for someone wondering.... Also pointed out that I had offered you some of the original Janty I still had - and it still vapes well, but no longer my no. 1 vape Sent some along to a few people - lasttango and JAWS.....

There's a few other things that I've noted. Ruyan #4 and the earlier Ruyan's may have been referred to as RY4 within the company but they've, to my knowledge, always used the full 'Ruyan #4' tag, so when some other 'researchers' have referred to Ruyan #4 as 'RY4' that is either a mistake or just shorthand. It's no secret that IF Ludo developed Janty's RY4 that he was attempting to make his version of Ruyan #4 and if you dig, you'll find that at one point his user id here was 'Ruyan' and he dealt with the company early on.

I tend to believe his version that he co-created Janty RY4 with a flavor engineer from China - but perhaps not in China. Janty had labs in the Netherlands but the mass manufacture was done by Dekang in China. It was separate from the regular dekang line - a special line called at that time the Janty/Joye line - and it costs a bit more too because of the special formulations different from the dekang line... and Joye also sold the same tasting RY4 under their label.

One Joye product was called 'Smoke' and I'm pretty sure that was RY2 (or the same as RY2 - not that sweet as 3 and more smoky than 1) and also carried RY4 which tasted the same as Janty's but was carried by other vendors as 'Joye'. The 'widow' - beadmaker from Ca. had it, as did one other vendor, whom I have forgotten. Of course 'Parked' (Parker) also carried it since he and Janty were connected - same building complex in Texas as Janty at the time.

Wayne from heaven gifts (also 'ruyandirect.com' at the time but they made him change that ;-) ) was the one that told me that the Janty/Joye line was actually made be dekang under a special contract between them, janty and joye, and separate from the regular dekang line of ejuices that he carried. Where hangsen comes in, I really don't know..... again - perhaps the Chinese flavor chemist was 'them' or became 'them'.

It really doesn't matter only in a curiosity sense perhaps and I was curious about it enough to gather that 'data' at one time. I just know that ejuice got me off 3 packs a day... and that was the 'important' part

Cheers....

eta... might find this thread interesting...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...627-ry4-pine-christmas-tree-6.html#post421524

and the last few posts in it. Freshsmoking.com also carried that janty/joye line as well as happy vaper...

 

[Randy C]

Has anyone tried Aroma WTA RY4?

 

[billherbst]

Has anyone tried Aroma WTA RY4?

I haven't. I've vaped a trio of Aroma WTAs (Turkish Blend, Pomegranate, and Prickly Cactus) and one non-WTA (Turkish w/o WTA), but Aroma didn't have an RY4 back then. If you try it, Randy, let us know what you think.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I haven't. I've vaped a trio of Aroma WTAs (Turkish Blend, Pomegranate, and Prickly Cactus) and one non-WTA (Turkish w/o WTA), but Aroma didn't have an RY4 back then. If you try it, Randy, let us know what you think.

Bill - Do you recall if there is a taste difference between WTA Turkish and Turkish w/o WTA?

 

[billherbst]

Bill - Do you recall if there is a taste difference between WTA Turkish and Turkish w/o WTA?

Cool,

I recall very clearly. The hangdude graciously sent me a 10ml bottle of Aroma Turkish Blend with WTA. It was terrific. Smooth, almost creamy, with wonderful tobacco taste (especially for a synthetic). I vaped that 10ml bottle in about two weeks then ordered two 30ml bottles of Turkish Blend without WTA, even though I worried a little that I might be disappointed. Wonder of wonders, Aroma Turkish tasted exactly the same to me with or without WTA. I mean, exactly the same. That was a pleasant surprise.

My experience of the flavor of Aroma Turkish with or without WTA being the same may not be true for everyone. I had no personal reaction to WTA in any of the three Aroma WTA juices I tried---literally, none at all. But then, I never feel cravings to smoke tobacco, perhaps because I'm a high-nic vaper (24mg). I may just be insensitive to WTA. Anyway, not noticing any difference in the flavor profiles could be related to my general lack of sensitivity to WTA.

That was a year ago. I still have about 20mls left of the Turkish without WTA. Although I don't vape it as often these days, I continue to like it---Aroma's Turkish is the best-tasting synthetic Turkish I've ever had, and I've tried plenty. Numerous others were good (ThePlumeRoom NET, Halo, HealthCabin, and even Dekang Turkish were all fine), but Aroma was the best.

Leaving out RY4s, the tobacco juices I vape these days are about 80% NETs and only 20% synthetic arti-baccos. My current favorite synthetic tobaccos are from Liqua---French Pipe, Bright Tobacco, and Traditional Tobacco (30ml bottles of Liqua from fasttech.com are $5.61 shipped---hard to beat for quality Italian juice; I just ordered a 30ml bottle of Liqua Turkish). Most every other tobacco blend I vape is an NET, but I do still vape a little Aroma Turkish every now and then.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Thanks for the comments, Bill.

I have some Aroma Turkish WTA...about 9 ml left of 20 originally. Aroma's Turkish is unique, it seems to me, but I haven't had a lot of experience with Turkish. I had a little difficulty warming up to it, but like it more as time goes by.

For those who might be interested, I came across a thread yesterday(?) from a new WTA supplier. 30 ml bottles for ~$25 as I recall. So, about $1 ml, shipped. Oh...shipping was $7. I offer apology as I don't remember the name of the outfit, but a search for recent WTA posts should easily produce the thread. I don't recall if that was an introductory price or usual.

Do you know of a thread dedicated to DIY NETs?

Aroma's RY4 was out of stock or otherwise unavailable at the time I ordered a couple of months ago.

 

[billherbst]

Do you know of a thread dedicated to DIY NETs?

Yes. Scarf-ace's thread. Here's the link:

Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea

 

[Sero]

On the official Hangsen website it is claimed that their CEO Jide Yao was behind the creation of RY4 in 2006. As I understand it, Jide Yao was a part of Dekang at one time and then left/was ousted for some reason. So my question is: Is Jide Yao or one of his underlings the "unnamed flavor chemist" that ran off with the recipe? I haven't tried Hangsen RY4, but it can't be the original recipe I'm guessing.

Also, is there anyone out there who has tasted the 2007/08 Janty RY4 and the current "DK Janty RY4." Does it taste the way you remember it? You may not remember exactly, but if the DK RY4 is the same, it should give you a nostalgic feeling.

This stuff is also really interesting to me for some reason. The original RY4 probably wasn't even that good lol. However, in my mind I just imagine it to be the ultimate juice with unrivaled taste. It is like wondering what the original CocaCola with ....... tasted like. The formula now is slightly different. If I could read chinese, I could probably find out more about what happened at Dekang.

 

[billherbst]

On the official Hangsen website it is claimed that their CEO Jide Yao was behind the creation of RY4 in 2006. As I understand it, Jide Yao was a part of Dekang at one time and then left/was ousted for some reason. So my question is: Is Jide Yao or one of his underlings the "unnamed flavor chemist" that ran off with the recipe? I haven't tried Hangsen RY4, but it can't be the original recipe I'm guessing.

Also, is there anyone out there who has tasted the 2007/08 Janty RY4 and the current "DK Janty RY4." Does it taste the way you remember it? You may not remember exactly, but if the DK RY4 is the same, it should give you a nostalgic feeling.

This stuff is also really interesting to me for some reason. The original RY4 probably wasn't even that good lol. However, in my mind I just imagine it to be the ultimate juice with unrivaled taste. It is like wondering what the original CocaCola with ....... tasted like. The formula now is slightly different. If I could read chinese, I could probably find out more about what happened at Dekang.

Sero,

Last year I read a rumor that the ex-Dekang flavor chemist who was convicted and imprisoned for absconding with the "secret" formula for the 2009 Dekang RY4 was scheduled for release from prison in 2012. Could that be Jide Yao? I don't know. While it's a bit of a stretch to imagine that someone could transform overnight from being an inmate in prison to the CEO of Hangsen, stranger things have happened.

I have a bottle of Janty RY4 DK-Series, but I hadn't begun vaping in 2009, so I haven't had "original" anything---no original Ruyan, Janty, or Dekang.

Kent C has a bottle of the original 2007-2009 Janty RY4. At least he did awhile back. Found the bottle years after stashing it away for safekeeping, as I recall. Ask him.

If I could read Chinese, I probably wouldn't be posting on ECF. LOL.

 

[Kent C]

Also, is there anyone out there who has tasted the 2007/08 Janty RY4 and the current "DK Janty RY4." Does it taste the way you remember it? You may not remember exactly, but if the DK RY4 is the same, it should give you a nostalgic feeling.

.

Hi Sero.... I have the original 2008 version of the Janty/Joye ejuice and I have tasted the Janty RY4X which is the PG/VG formulation with reported as the same flavoring. While there are signs of the original mix, they are different and while I really liked the original, I didn't care for the RY4X.. But... this was much later in time and my palate had changed as well. I no longer vaped the original RY4 - found better stuff It's been a while since I tried the RY4X and I don't really recall 'flavor notes'... just the judgement that it wasn't the same and had some 'reference' to the first.

If you go back to old ejuice threads - probably on the general forum at that time you'll see where RY4 ended up in 1st or 2nd on many of the 'what's your favorite?' threads. Johnson Creek's Tennesee Cured was up there as well but before they changed their whole formulation. I don't think they ever made it back - although I haven't checked in a long time. All that said, you'll find 'reviews' on the old RY4 as 'dirty socks', 'moldy basement' and the like I actually had a friend that said 'moldy basement' first time he tried it, but I left him a bottle and it became his favorite He's been vaping it for over 2 years now. I got some of the last stuff out in 2010, and he says it's still good.

 

[billherbst]

Roughly two months after starting my mad scientist experimental project of creating an NET-based DIY RY4 using my home-brewed Skydancer NET (naturally extracted tobacco), I’ve come to some personal conclusions that I’d like to share.

All told, I created 15 different versions of Skydancer NET DIY RY4. Most were variations on two distinctly different themes. All versions used the three core ingredients of RY4: tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. Most added varying small amounts of Lorann Tart and Sour to try to emulate the sour-sweet counterbalancing contrast used by Janty and a number of other very good RY4s. No other odd or more adventurous flavoring ingredients were used---I tried to stick to the basics of RY4---so the differences were in the choices of flavorings by type and source: three or four kinds of caramels and either French Vanilla or Bavarian Cream by LorAnn, Capella, TFA, FlavourArt, and Nature’s Flavors. All versions used my own Skydancer extract for the tobacco.

Two versions---v2b and v11---were sent out in 10ml sample bottles to numerous thread participants in April and May. I’ve continued to vape both those versions on pretty much a daily basis since then. Here’s what I think as of today:

As Custom RY4s, they’re OK. Not great, but passable. Although Custom RY4s are permitted, encouraged, and even required to deviate from the traditional flavor profile of Classic RY4s, both my Skydancer NET-based DIY RY4 versions push that envelope very far, stretching it almost out of shape. I wouldn’t say they pass the breaking point, but it’s a close call. They’re simply too different in overall flavor from most of the highly-ranked synthetic tobacco RY4s to add something especially noteworthy to the lexicon of RY4s.

Skydancer RY4 v2b in particular is somewhat reminiscent of Ravyn, Alice-in-Vapeland’s attempt at an NET-based RY4, which the majority of NET fans consider a failure, due to its muddled overabundance of odd flavors. Skydancer v2b is, in my opinion, better than Ravyn---simpler, more clear, and with a tastier overall flavor---but that’s not saying much. Skydancer RY4 v11 is much softer and more harmonious, but---in some ways---it’s even less typical as an RY4 than v2b.

As NET-based Custom RY4s, both versions hold their own surprisingly well against the current retail competition, especially given that I'm just an amateur juice-maker. In general, however, I think both fall far short of greatness in the RY4 genre.

On the other hand, if I consider both Skydancer v2b and v11 as natural tobacco blends that just happen to use the core RY4 ingredients, rather than as RY4s per se in the strictest sense, they fare much better. As sweeter natural tobacco blends (such as Heather’s Heavenly Vapes tends to produce), they both pass muster quite easily. Skydancer v11 is especially pleasing to me personally. I love its flavor. Although I understand why at least a couple testers reported an apricot-like fruitiness in v11, I don’t taste that. I get very soft vanilla and caramel that complement the grassiness of the Skydancer extract very nicely. Skydancer v2b is more aggressive and intense, but to my way of thinking it’s also a success as a tobacco blend.

What I still want to know---the Great Burning Question---is this: How do people make RY4s that actually TASTE like RY4, either as retail juices or as all-in-one RY4 flavorings? Throughout my now 2+ year history of DIYing, I’ve learned a lot, but I've been unable to come up with anything that tastes like a typical RY4. Obviously, all the professional RY4 juicemasters know something I don’t. For me, making RY4 remains an elusive mystery. But wait, shouldn’t RY4 be an easy flavor to create? For heaven's sake, it's only three ingredients. Why is it so damned hard to come up with something in DIY that gets reasonably close to a typical RY4? I’m not even aiming at the superlative and amazing retail RY4s. I’d be happy to make a DIY RY4 that was equivalent to an ordinary, run-of-the-mill, average RY4. But nooooooo. I’ll be very interested to see how Passerbyeus did with his DIY RY4 Ana. I hope he had better luck and more success than I have.

 

[Randy C]

Cool,

I recall very clearly. The hangdude graciously sent me a 10ml bottle of Aroma Turkish Blend with WTA. It was terrific. Smooth, almost creamy, with wonderful tobacco taste (especially for a synthetic). I vaped that 10ml bottle in about two weeks then ordered two 30ml bottles of Turkish Blend without WTA, even though I worried a little that I might be disappointed. Wonder of wonders, Aroma Turkish tasted exactly the same to me with or without WTA. I mean, exactly the same. That was a pleasant surprise.

My experience of the flavor of Aroma Turkish with or without WTA being the same may not be true for everyone. I had no personal reaction to WTA in any of the three Aroma WTA juices I tried---literally, none at all. But then, I never feel cravings to smoke tobacco, perhaps because I'm a high-nic vaper (24mg). I may just be insensitive to WTA. Anyway, not noticing any difference in the flavor profiles could be related to my general lack of sensitivity to WTA.

That was a year ago. I still have about 20mls left of the Turkish without WTA. Although I don't vape it as often these days, I continue to like it---Aroma's Turkish is the best-tasting synthetic Turkish I've ever had, and I've tried plenty. Numerous others were good (ThePlumeRoom NET, Halo, HealthCabin, and even Dekang Turkish were all fine), but Aroma was the best.


Leaving out RY4s, the tobacco juices I vape these days are about 80% NETs and only 20% synthetic arti-baccos. My current favorite synthetic tobaccos are from Liqua---French Pipe, Bright Tobacco, and Traditional Tobacco (30ml bottles of Liqua from fasttech.com are $5.61 shipped---hard to beat for quality Italian juice; I just ordered a 30ml bottle of Liqua Turkish). Most every other tobacco blend I vape is an NET, but I do still vape a little Aroma Turkish every now and then.

Bill,

This Liqua has captured my interest as of late... Are these of the TA variety, or some sort of tobacco flavoring? I assume they aren't carto cloggers? Also are the juices you've tried light in color? Any idea of VG/PG ratio? Our pallets are similar, so Im very interested in your thoughts. I'm considering placing an order for some of these with Fasttech soon.

 

[kuritaro9]

being i big fan of the apollo RY4, i was looking for a little cheaper, faster to get to japan alternative. i will always have some apollo on hand, but i gave this one a try since it was dirt cheap. i have to say, that it wasnt very good when it arrived last month, but i stuck it in my ammo box with my other liquid, and tried it again today, and its pretty good. a little heavier tobacco note than the apollo, and maybe slightly sweeter on the vanilla(could be the caramel though) but im thinking it warrants another order to keep on hand. i also taste something else in it. maybe peach, but its very slight. all in all, not a bad juice. and at $11 for 30ml, and 2-3 day shipping to my house in japan, its like a sore peter...just cant beat it...haha

Dekang RY4 (Sweet Tobacco) E-Liquid | E-Juice | eLiquidChina.com

[edit]
im not sure if this dekang is the same as other venders dekang ry4(first dekang branded ry i have tried). there seems to be some variations that still carry the same dekang name. im gonna vape this tank, and see how feel about it when its done, but so far so good. if i had to pick a category for this one, i would say its more of a bright ry, with maybe a hint of the sour(again, could be the peach im picking up) but my taste buds have been all over the place lately since giving up the analogs 2 months ago. case in point, i had some EC blends DK555 that smelled fantastic, but was unvapable IMO.couldnt believe that smell and taste could be that far off from each other. it was steeped for 1.5 months too, so i dont know what was up with that bottle.

[edit#2 - electric boogaloo]
gonna have to take back some of my praise of this one. something just seems off about it. cant quite nail it down, but there is something just not right about it. 1 or 2 consecutive sessions with it, and it was good, but now its just tasteing kind of funky. oh well, might make a good mixer with my MBV 3 shot razzle...

 

[billherbst]

Bill,

This Liqua has captured my interest as of late... Are these of the TA variety, or some sort of tobacco flavoring? I assume they aren't carto cloggers? Also are the juices you've tried light in color? Any idea of VG/PG ratio? Our pallets are similar, so Im very interested in your thoughts. I'm considering placing an order for some of these with Fasttech soon.

Randy,

The Liqua line is straight synthetic arti-bacco. They're not advertised as "natural" (Hangsen does that for their TA line), and I can't taste anything remotely like TA or NET in them. The flavorings used in Liqua juices are from FlavourArt. All the juices are pale, light-colored transparent liquids. No coil killers here; they'll vape about as clean as it gets. Base ratio is 70/30 PG/VG.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Randy,

The Liqua line is straight synthetic arti-bacco. They're not advertised as "natural" (Hangsen does that for their TA line), and I can't taste anything remotely like TA or NET in them. The flavorings used in Liqua juices are from FlavourArt. All the juices are pale, light-colored transparent liquids. No coil killers here; they'll vape about as clean as it gets. Base ratio is 70/30 PG/VG.

I have seen comment elsewhere that the Liqua flavors tend to be towards the weak side.

Has anyone sampled the flavors from ecigforever, an outlet similar to fasttech?

 

[billherbst]

I have seen comment elsewhere that the Liqua flavors tend to be towards the weak side.

Cool,

I can attest that the Liqua tobacco flavors are easily strong enough. I wouldn't want them any more potent. The ones I have are Traditional Tobacco, Bright Tobacco, Cigar, and French Pipe. Haven't ordered the Turkish yet. As for the non-tobacco flavors, I've tried Coffee, Strawberry, and Vanilla. Intensity of flavor wasn't an issue, but none were among the best juices I've had in those flavors. OK, but nothing special.

Has anyone sampled the flavors from ecigforever, an outlet similar to fasttech?

Yes, I've ordered from each of those China-based vendors on more than one occasion. Their names are accurate: ecigforever takes forever to get products to you, and fasttech is relatively very fast. Prices are roughly equivalent, but I'd give the lean slightly to fasttech for product quality. Both offer free shipping, but ecigforever charges a flat $2.00 handling fee per order.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Cool,

I can attest that the Liqua tobacco flavors are easily strong enough. I wouldn't want them any more potent. The ones I have are Traditional Tobacco, Bright Tobacco, Cigar, and French Pipe. Haven't ordered the Turkish yet. As for the non-tobacco flavors, I've tried Coffee, Strawberry, and Vanilla. Intensity of flavor wasn't an issue, but none were among the best juices I've had in those flavors. OK, but nothing special.



Yes, I've ordered from each of those China-based vendors on more than one occasion. Their names are accurate: ecigforever takes forever to get products to you, and fasttech is relatively very fast. Prices are roughly equivalent, but I'd give the lean slightly to fasttech for product quality. Both offer free shipping, but ecigforever charges a flat $2.00 handling fee per order.

Thanks for the reply, Bill. I've not ordered from Fasttech. My one order with ecigforever took 2 1/2 weeks to arrive. I'm pleased to read your evaluation of the strength of the Liquia flavors. ...thanks again.

PS I like the Microcig Maxi cartomizers at ecigforever, now on sale for $2.98 each.

 

[billherbst]

I like the Microcig Maxi cartomizers at ecigforever, now on sale for $2.98 each.

I have three of those clearos and like them quite a bit.

By the way, to get free shipping at ecigforever, you have to order at least $29 in products. FastTech ships any order amount for free, which is great when I don't want to drop a chunk of change.

I don't really need ten more of the Maxi Clearos, so I guess I'll have to forego the sale. Oh well...

 

[Cool_Breeze]

ecigexpress ecigforever ...only to save confusion.

 

[billherbst]

ecigexpress ecigforever ...only to save confusion.

Thanks, Cool. Brain damage, you know?