Tobacco Flavor Question ?

[Trigster]

Hello All...

For all I've read it seems 'True' tobacco Flavors are some of the hardest to make. I've got some supplies on the way...One called 'Turkish' the other 'Real Cig' with the 2nd supposedly being referred to as 'tobacco Additive'...I've seen them reviewed as 'Strong'...

What percentage of those type flavors would anybody recommend as a 'Starting Point' ???

My normal smokes were M-Red / C-FLTR or a similar clone...And about 1.5 packs a day
My Base will be 18mg 70/30 PG Dominant...Filled in with a bit of 24mg 50/50 if needed...

And...I'm down to about 1 Cig per day ...I find myself enjoying even those less and less and I suspect it'll be time to hang'em up altogether pretty soon !!!

Thanks Much For Any Advise...Trig

 

[classwife]

Moved this up to DIY e-liquid

 

[Gratch]

I have tried many tobacco flavours and all of them just don't hit the mark. I gave up on them as i found i wanted to smoke more when i used tobacco flavours, now i am on blueberry or pineapples i feel less urges to smoke tobacco.
I hope you find a good flavour though

 

[Trigster]

Moved this up to DIY E-Liquid

Thank You...Sometimes "I can't see the forest through the trees"...I thought this section was the 2 sub forums...Oh well...If at 1st you don't fricassee...fry fry a hen...Trig

 

[Trigster]

I have tried many tobacco flavours and all of them just don't hit the mark. I gave up on them as i found i wanted to smoke more when i used tobacco flavours, now i am on blueberry or pineapples i feel less urges to smoke tobacco.
I hope you find a good flavour though

That's what I'm finding as well...Seems to always be something extra in the background that's either too much or not a flavor I'd choose as a subtle additive...Just a whisper...Thanks...Trig

 

[sketchness]

This is probably the best spot to ask your questions. A whole thread on tobacco's

Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only

 

[rob33]

@Trigster welcome to the forum. I left tobacco flavors long ago much like Gratch it just kept me from making a clean break. I've been mixing for my nephew and he likes tobacco. More of a an Eclipse clone

Western TFA 4%
Vanilla Custerd Cap 2%
Marshmallow 1%

IMHO Western once you figure out your percentage for your setup is a close Red Cowboy Killer

 

[JCinFLA]

And...I'm down to about 1 Cig per day ...I find myself enjoying even those less and less and I suspect it'll be time to hang'em up altogether pretty soon !!!

First....CONGRATULATIONS on the above!


About tobacco flavors...I don't vape them myself (never have), but several vaping friends liked the RY4 flavoring when they first switched. It's a tobacco flavoring, but with enough other flavoring added...to make it very pleasant tasting, too.

 

[MSK421]

Stopping cigs(2.5 pad) I used fruit flavors while dropping nic 5 ml a month. After nicotine, triggers, withdrawal, ect. where eliminated. I found the "hand to mouth" habit gained from 35+ yrs smoking needed what I really enjoyed about smoking tobacco was real tobacco flavor. MEL, supplier, had great tobacco (fruit,baked,also) flavors but they seem to lack something, maybe just me, but something. I now diy NET. NET suppliers are out there and have high rated flavors and service. DIY my choice. Will not find more tobacco flavor than a NET.
Try Best tobacco for flavor extraction

Just my
You're experience maybe different!

 

[jambi]

If you're going to be comfortable with tobacco vapes, you have to go into it with the understanding that the delivery system you're using (vaping) cannot emulate the experience of combustible tobacco. Even though all the visual indicators are there (ie: it looks like smoking), there are flavors and aromas produced by combustion that vaping simply cannot accurately/convincingly simulate. I am a tobacco vape enthusiast, with one third of my current inventory (323 different flavors) being in the tobacco category, and none of them, from my lamest TFA Red Type to my swankiest cottage-industry NETs, can take me to "combustion".

Now, this is not a bad thing! I like tobacco vapes because I find the flavors (both synthetic and tobacco derived) to be infinitely more interesting than the same old artificial fruit and vanilla flavors I've been eating for my entire life. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing with all modes of flavoring, but the tobaccos are what provide The New. I don't vape them and ask "How Close is this to Real Tobacco", I vape them and say, "That's a (insert adjective) vape".

Come to peace with the concept of This is vaping, not smoking, and the tobacco flavors will become highly intriguing.

Regarding your questions about the flavors you have, what brand are they?

 

[BrotherBob]

Hello All...
For all I've read it seems 'True' Tobacco Flavors are some of the hardest to make. I've got some supplies on the way...One called 'Turkish' the other 'Real Cig' with the 2nd supposedly being referred to as 'Tobacco Additive'...I've seen them reviewed as 'Strong'...
What percentage of those type flavors would anybody recommend as a 'Starting Point' ???
My normal smokes were M-Red / C-FLTR or a similar clone...And about 1.5 packs a day
My Base will be 18mg 70/30 PG Dominant...Filled in with a bit of 24mg 50/50 if needed...
And...I'm down to about 1 Cig per day ...I find myself enjoying even those less and less and I suspect it'll be time to hang'em up altogether pretty soon !!!
Thanks Much For Any Advise...Trig

Once you start to like tobacco vapes, it's all good. I started mixing with a tobacco flavor and still use the same recipe to this day.
Just, hit "like" at bottom right hand corner of this post if you need any more information and I (or someone else) can read your question and get back to you.

 

[Trigster]

If you're going to be comfortable with tobacco vapes, you have to go into it with the understanding that the delivery system you're using (vaping) cannot emulate the experience of combustible tobacco. Even though all the visual indicators are there (ie: it looks like smoking), there are flavors and aromas produced by combustion that vaping simply cannot accurately/convincingly simulate. I am a tobacco vape enthusiast, with one third of my current inventory (323 different flavors) being in the tobacco category, and none of them, from my lamest TFA Red Type to my swankiest cottage-industry NETs, can take me to "combustion".

Now, this is not a bad thing! I like tobacco vapes because I find the flavors (both synthetic and tobacco derived) to be infinitely more interesting than the same old artificial fruit and vanilla flavors I've been eating for my entire life. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing with all modes of flavoring, but the tobaccos are what provide The New. I don't vape them and ask "How Close is this to Real Tobacco", I vape them and say, "That's a (insert adjective) vape".

Come to peace with the concept of This is vaping, not smoking, and the tobacco flavors will become highly intriguing.

Regarding your questions about the flavors you have, what brand are they?

Once you start to like tobacco vapes, it's all good. I started mixing with a tobacco flavor and still use the same recipe to this day.
Just, hit "like" at bottom right hand corner of this post if you need any more information and I (or someone else) can read your question and get back to you.

Thanks Very Much...It does seem it'll have to be something to 'Play With' and the end result will probably never truly resemble "combustion"...And maybe only to 'MY' liking...But eventually I would like a flavor that gets close...Trial & Error

2 of the flavors I've got coming(tomorrow)are both from ECX...'Flavor Express' Turkish & RealCIG(on the invoice RealCIG appears as Tobacco Additive)and I'm guessing they might be re-labeled TFA flavors...And several other 'Sub' flavors...Toffee / Hazelnut etc...

It was only about 3 months ago I decided to try a simple set-up...eGo + Clearomizer...instead of cig-a-like cartridges and the juice I started with was V2 RED...Last week I got 'Eastern & American" from Mt Baker...All 3 are very useable but the RED seems a bit ordinary and the other 2 have distinct back ground flavors that I'd prefer weren't as obvious...What I do find interesting is the 2 Mt Baker pre-mixed flavors are growing more to my liking as time goes by...I'm gon'a start with just the straight Tobacco but Toffee / Hazelnut / Pecan / Rum and others all seem reasonable to try as subtle additives...

I'm very new to all things DIY...When I get some results I'll throw up and thread and maybe some other new folks might get some ideas or additional information...The variables do seem almost limitless... "This is an amazing Forum & Treasure Trove of Information"

So...Thanks Again...I Do Appreciate Your Input...Trig

 

[mcclintock]

jambi, if I could "like" that twice I would.

To me, tobacco flavors are most compatible with PG/VG and can be made to work with the base rather than against it, in light concentrations. Not the only way I like to vape tobacco, but really very evocative of smoking. If you can taste a lot of flavor, that isn't like smoking at all. Tobacco flavors are also interesting, abstract, sometimes neutral without being unflavored, and can add magic to a flavor.

I've been thinking about the Tobacco Absolute Garuda, which I use a lot (meaning often, not in high quantity, actually I'm still on my first 10 ml). It's a surprising flavor that doesn't taste like what you would expect tobacco to taste like, except it's actually made from tobacco. It also has some grassiness without the wet grass taste most NETs have a bit of. Anyway, tobacco doesn't have a lot of taste, but it's a great base for flavorings such as smoke curing. So it makes sense this TA, with no added flavor or smokiness, works so good as a base flavor.

 

[jambi]

2 of the flavors I've got coming(tomorrow)are both from ECX...'Flavor Express' Turkish & RealCIG(on the invoice RealCIG appears as Tobacco Additive)and I'm guessing they might be re-labeled TFA flavors...And several other 'Sub' flavors...Toffee / Hazelnut etc...

I've browsed that page of "Flavors Express" flavors many times, and I've never been able to pin it down. Based on the names I highly suspect many of them are re-branded Super Concentrates, but it's definitely not a perfect selection of SC. There are holes (no Arabic, no Island, no Cubana; one of SC's best tobaccos) and then there are flavors that aren't in SC's regular line, or at least not available from my SC suppliers, like HongJinLong. I think the Flavors Express are a combination of re-brands, but heavy on SC, and I base this assumption on the products known as "Black Mile". Both TFA and SC have flavors with that name. The Flavors Express page likewise has two Black Mile flavors, a regular and a plus, and there is no Black Mile selection on their TFA (Signature) page. This is why I haven't ordered from that page. I already have almost all the SC tobaccos, and many other brands, and I don't want to end up with duplicates.

Anyway, if what you bought is SC, and it seems highly likely the Real Cig is, I can describe how I use them. For single flavor mixes, SC is actually pretty easy to work with, because their flavor line has really good uniformity in strength (they all seem to be about equal in how concentrated they are). Start at no more than 2%. I've found that most flavors are good right at 2%, but a few are better a little higher. Arabic is an exception and I've found it unpalatable at anything over 1% (soapy). From your 2%, you can adjust up or down to taste.

I don't have Real Cig or Turkish, but here are examples of % for some SC flavors I have:
Arabic: 1%
Cohiba (yum!): 3%
Cigar: 2.5%
Cubana (yum!): 3.5%
Black & Mild (aka "Black Mile): 3.5%
Island: 2%
USA Mix: 3%
RY4: 3.5%
Old Captain: 2.5%, or up to 4% if you really like Whiskey
American Red: X% (the only SC I don't like)
(Note: these are my own preferences, which may or may not differ from the prefs of other folks).

As you can see, the percentages are very tight within the 2 to 3.5 % range, which is why I feel SC is easy to work with. Not a lot of guess work involved, as with some other brands.

I have done very little combining of SC with other brands, so no comment there.

I have found that all SC flavors give a heavy metallic taste at above 4%. Even when combining different SC flavors, for me, 4% seems to be the max threshold. It seems like after sitting for a long time (months), that metallic taste will subside, but you don't end up with anything better than you would by using lower %. I haven't found the SC line to be steep-dependent, though the Arabic and Island are definitely squirly till they've had a week or so to settle down. Actually, I'd say these are better vaped within a couple months. I have old bottles of Black Mile and RY4 that have faded considerably.

This got long. Shutting up now. Good luck, please report back with your results!

 

[Alter]

I take the new tobaccos I buy and make 30 or 50mls(depending on how appealing the smell of the concentrate is) at 5% with no nic. They have to sit several weeks at least, I then put a drop on the back of the hand then decide if its worthy of nic or do I have to cut it down first to 2.5% then 1.25% if needed, then again has to steep. I've had some tobacs like SC Real Cig that's rank at 5% but cutting it down to 1.25 it becomes a nice addition. I have several concentrates that have to be cut down substantially not to overpower a mix that are nasty as standalones but good background notes. INW Turkish tastes like motor oil as standalone but small percentage blended into my highway as background and its mighty fine.
As long as the tobac isn't ashy or like licking a ashtray, over the last few months I'm revisiting some of my YUK concentrates, making low % batches and using them as backgrounds and some have surprised me being actually good.

Tobacco Absolute Garuda

Thats a great TA.... I love the grassy tobacs. HS Desert ship and Highway are mild grassier tobacs that go great with the garuda. The now defunk RTS TA is also a great grassy TA that I use in just about every blend I make.

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks Very Much...It does seem it'll have to be something to 'Play With' and the end result will probably never truly resemble "combustion"...And maybe only to 'MY' liking...But eventually I would like a flavor that gets close...Trial & Error

2 of the flavors I've got coming(tomorrow)are both from ECX...'Flavor Express' Turkish & RealCIG(on the invoice RealCIG appears as Tobacco Additive)and I'm guessing they might be re-labeled TFA flavors...And several other 'Sub' flavors...Toffee / Hazelnut etc...

It was only about 3 months ago I decided to try a simple set-up...eGo + Clearomizer...instead of cig-a-like cartridges and the juice I started with was V2 RED...Last week I got 'Eastern & American" from Mt Baker...All 3 are very useable but the RED seems a bit ordinary and the other 2 have distinct back ground flavors that I'd prefer weren't as obvious...What I do find interesting is the 2 Mt Baker pre-mixed flavors are growing more to my liking as time goes by...I'm gon'a start with just the straight Tobacco but Toffee / Hazelnut / Pecan / Rum and others all seem reasonable to try as subtle additives...

I'm very new to all things DIY...When I get some results I'll throw up and thread and maybe some other new folks might get some ideas or additional information...The variables do seem almost limitless... "This is an amazing Forum & Treasure Trove of Information"

So...Thanks Again...I Do Appreciate Your Input...Trig

The closest I've gotten to that true combustion dirty ash cigarette taste was Hangsen red USA and inawera's DNB (Dirty neutral base).

In a 50/50 base add:

Red USA Mix-HS @ 5 - 7% (A nice USA cigarette flavor)

and

Tobacco DNB WG-INW @ 2 - 3% (Adds that burnt ash taste)

Start at the lower percentage and adjust one or the other or both as needed. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution

 

[Trigster]

...let's just say I've hit the "Quote Button" several more times...Thank You To Everyone !!!

dannyv45...Thanks for your thoughts and for the "Master" Tobacco link you created...
Also Referenced Above...Tons of information !!!
Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only

jambi...Thanks for the % numbers and all of your suggestions...Great Information...

AlterUrEgo...I like the idea of a "Base Flavor" of sorts to work off of...I think I'll try that...

With all the information I've gleaned from all you good people I believe I've got a well grounded place to start...And right on time...1st DIY supplies are still scheduled for today

Thanks Again Everybody...Trig

 

[SteveS45]

Welcome @Trigster and I hope you enjoy your stay!

For the longest time I sought out the perfect replacement for my Marlboro Reds when I quit smoking. Although I did find some that were close and for a while was looking into Net and WTA's I have moved passed that now and currently have over 100 flavors so I can vape whatever I want when I want. In my first foray into DIY I was searching the same as you until I finally found a flavored e-Liquid I could actually enjoy so you can say that was the day I fell down the rabbit hole. Now although I do vape mostly my own Tobacco DIY Blends it is more of what to vape next.

4 Major flavor groups are Tobacco/Fruits/Deserts/Bakery

Just my opinion and what I found to be most enjoyable for me. I wish you great luck finding a niche for you new flavors.

 

[Alter]

The concentrates are rather cheap, the PG and VG(glycube) are also rather cheap cause I can order them from the US and go pick them up and with no nicotine and no hassles at the border. Its the nicotine up here in Canada thats 150 bucks delivered per liter is the expensive part so I don't waste it willy-nilly in juices that are questionable. I refuse to pick up or ship nic over the border avoiding to get a black mark and maybe jeopardize all of our other online buys with customs hassles. So tossing 30 or 50mls of YUK juice without nic is really no biggie and making 10mls is a waste of time.
I have found my nitch of what I like and don't like long ago so testing new flavors for me is more voluntary than compulsory.

 

[Trigster]

A Few Last Thoughts...I've learned so much in the last week and probably only scratched the surface...Flavors / Bases / Nic % / Hardware...Many Many Variables...

My initial assumption that I'd gravitate more towards "True Tobacco" flavors seems to be turning out to not be completely true...From the few little test batches I've made I find myself enjoying the "background" flavors I've added in some of them to be quite nice...Hazelnut/Toffee/Rum...But just a whisper...Time will tell

I also got a quick lesson on "Tobacco Additive"(TA)...Powerful Jungle Juice It Is...Yikes...I put a few tiny drops in a pre-mix (15ml) I thought was rather bland and even that has a distinct Ash/Smoke flavor...If you're new like me and try TA I'd go easy...What I put in was well under 1%...As in Cooking...It's easier to add more spice than it is to take some out !!!...I don't think I can fairly comment on the Pure Tobaccos I've mixed up until they steep a while...But I have tasted the FE Turkish and so far it seem nice...And even the ones with the flavoring get a little nicer each day...

And Most Important...I haven't smoked a cigarette in a week...2 days ago I put the Ash Trays away and the 1/2 pack still sitt'in around went in the garbage...It's a done deal...Dead And Gone !!!

Thanks Again To Everyone For Your Input...Trig