Tobacco Flavorings and Enhancers?

[jbbishop]

Just pointing out I was referring to the tobacco Enhancers, not the Top Note Flavors (as far as I know). Sorry for any confusion!

Bear in mind that there is a big difference between ripening raw tobacco to develop natural flavors inherent in the plant matter during the curing process by using chemical treatments versus flavoring additives which are defined as the TOP NOTE flavors. It was my understanding that the tobacco flavor enhancers were an example of the former.

Most flavor additives tested are classified as safe when they enter the human body through the ingestion of food and not through inhalation. Tobacco flavor enhancers may contain or produce hazardous chemicals. Right now it is unclear to what extent or degree combustion may be involved in this process. I only advise caution.

Again, I think that their TOP NOTE flavors are probably fine as far as I know! They have quite a few more varieties now than when I first looked at them in 2001.

I did email Jim at Seedmans to let him know what y'all were trying to do and asked his opinion about the suitability of these for our purposes.

Here's his opinion:

Dear Jeff,

These flavors and enhancers WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS, they are not made to work for this.
Both are made to be absorbed by the tobacco, the glycolene carrier evaporates, the flavor is trapped in the tobacco and released when burned, this is the only way it is to be used.

Jim

Still, some of you seem to be reporting good results.

 

[jbbishop]

So I wrote Jim back and told him that members on here had been using the Top Note flavors and some seemed to be reporting favorable results and here was his reply:

Dear Jeff,

I am a little surprised that they are working. The top notes are mostly flavorings, but still I would think the glycolene would inhibit things, as it does leave a little residue when it evaporates, not a problem on tobacco as it burns away.

Good luck, what is this website? I would like to visit it.

Jim

 

[lewnworx]

After a bunch of web research since getting my rig, I'm going to hazard a guess that the majority of the "cigarette flavored" juices are probably being made with stuff from these guys:

Yunnan Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd

I did some "enjoying with your new sunshine DVD most happy they are" online translation of the site, and from what I can noodle out they're apparently the ones with the most experience in extracting more than just nicotine out of tobacco.

From what I can gather, getting the flavors out of the stuff is much harder, even with good lab gear and an industrial process than getting the nic out, which seems fairly involved by itself.

If you think about it, unlike other flavorings, we're probably the only group on the planet that actually wants something to taste like a skanky cigarette.

As for me? I really LIKE the fact that they don't taste like smokes. I never DID like the smell, the taste, or reeking like an ashtray as a biproduct of my nic habit.

I'm REALLY digging not having to taste it, and when I was caught without a live battery a couple days ago had my first analog since my rig got here. It was gawdawful horrid. Blech. I'll take my Orange and Strawberry and whatnot any day over the "real" thing, but to each his own.

 

[jbbishop]

Great find! If we truly want our juice to taste like real tobacco flavoring then we need to consider other alternatives. Right now Johnson Creek is doing a heck of a job on the two flavors they custom manufacture which proves it is possible. But they are the only one doing it and are having to do it themselves without a lot of outside help or examples to follow.

What we need is someone to go right to the source of the main flavor extract manufacturer to the major tobacco industry:

Welcome to Tobacco Technology, Inc.

What we need is to have the appropriate products formulated without glycolene, where the intention is to spray on raw tobacco at various phases during the curing process to enhance flavor and to be used as Top Note finishing flavors again to be sprayed on raw tobacco. If they could offer some of their custom flavorings for our use in PG and VG formulations then there is a ready made source of a huge variety of blends if they could be encouraged to sell them to this industry to be used as tobacco flavoring in e-liquids.

They're such a huge company steeped in the mystery that surrounds their proprietary technologies and procedures that they would need a substantially large supplier to approach them about designing a new product to use the pure flavor essences they manufacture for a different purpose than as components of the formulations they have always manufactured based on how these products have always been applied before now. It would be laughably simple for them to do it. I bet they could whip some up in a single afternoon. The question is would they?

 

[Lika]

@ jbbshop

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to look into this. Looks like you as well as lewnworx and others have done some good research. I'll have to go back and read all the links a little later as the new finds are very interesting.

@ lewnworx

I'm not sure if you are aware but we have a new social group called Tejas Vapin created for Texans. I'll send you an invite. Please join and say hello to the group

 

[aldo]

Hi ....i read all the threads below ...but...i can figure out wich percentage of Seedmans flavor (virginia or comercial) to E-liquid i should use....and i am not sure in the ratios below ,if you are refering to the ...concentrated or the diluted ...version of Seedmans.
Thank you in advance for any reply

 

[gongoozler]

Thanks, I have been interested in this discussion and might try some of those flavours sometime.

I mentioned Tasty Puff because they are tobacco flavours too and I wanted to make a distinction for anyone not aware that they are not the same thing as the ones being tried successfully.

I tryed Tasty Puff on my Npro,(apple) it has more smell than taste.Strange throat-hit also,hard to describe,however it didn't feel "natural" almost menthal,but not.Mybe I'm just strange...

 

[eturf]

Hi ....i read all the threads below ...but...i can figure out wich percentage of Seedmans flavor (virginia or comercial) to E-liquid i should use....and i am not sure in the ratios below ,if you are refering to the ...concentrated or the diluted ...version of Seedmans.

Hi Aldo -

I think I have a similar goal as you in regards to the use of Seedman's tobacco enhancers/flavorings. I also cannot figure out the answers by reading this thread.

I have a lot of 36mg juice. When I first started vaping (less than a month ago) I figured I wanted maximum strength to best be able to give up analogs as well as the ability to cut it and still have sufficient nic strength for economy.

I am already to the point that I think 36mg nic strength is too high to vape continuously since I am vaping much more than I was smoking analogs and doing it too much gives me a headache. But I didn't want to lose flavor or throat hit by diluting the flavors down so I am looking into adding some Seedman's with VG and mixing 1 or 2 to 1 with the 36mg to make it approx 12 or 18mg.

What I have found is that adding 1 or 2 drops VG to 1 drop of 36mg tobacco flavor ejuice like Hilton, Marlboro, Camel, Tobacco, etc, works fine for me. I don't think there's much loss in throat or lung hit; in fact there is more vapor than before mixing the straight VG with the PG ejuices. It works especially well with my BE112 attys (which are a very light draw and I did not think produced enough vapor or throat hit before) but not my M-201s, which are already a hard draw.

You do lose some flavor doing this but I wasn't especially fond of the tobacco flavors in the first place (but got a bunch of them initially thinking they would be my mainstay) and this makes them better in my opinion. Also, I like the EST Red Bull flavor but found it too strong with too much throat hit for me at 36mg and diluting it 2:1 makes it perfect. I have not tried this with my favorite ejuices, though - JC tobacco and TN cured, which I find perfect as they are and diluting them would be a sacrilege.

A big benefit of this is all of a sudden I practically doubled or more my ejuice supply at virtually no cost since the price of VG is very inexpensive at places like iHerb (Now Foods, Vegetable Glycerin, 16 fl oz, 473 ml - iHerb.com).

 

[travelnutz]

Its been awhile since anyone has posted here. This was an interesting read. Any other updates on the Seedmans top note tobacco f;avors? Any problems with attys?

 

[tparganos]

I found the same product for the vegetable glycerine for 2 dollars less at Herbspro.com

 

[Stehle]

Yes, a very interesting read.

I hope and take it that no one took ill or suffered any long term effects from vaping these flavor enhancers.

Just when I thought I found a use/remedy for a few bottles of weak tasting nic-juice... (sigh)

Perhaps the suppliers offering "double flavorings" or "Bizarre" new flavors may hold the answer.

If you have anymore info on the "Seedman Site" saga, I'd love to read your posts. - TY

 

[Vaporer]

Last night MSNBC and a local news had coverage on the e cigs.
Naturally, they just couldn't talk about positive aspects, but there was one vid clip showing the FDA testing some e juice from China.
They stated they weren't as safe as professed due to some manufacturers including ethyl glycol (SP) (didn't hear the name well)...essentially the glycolene.
They claimed it was a carcinogen also found in cigarettes.

Earlier in this thread is a reference of 12.3% glycolene in the Seedman flavor enhancers and its "intended to evaporate" prior to the tobacco burning.
It must be being used a solvent for other ingredients. There should be a safe substitute.
Using it as a liquid would possibly be a greater concentration of something we don't want if I read this all right.

I find it odd the FDA chooses to fight a battle this way. Pick one ingredient that they already allow(and must approve) in cigarettes among 1000's of others to be their champion?
Pretty weak argument if you ask me.

IMHP it all comes down to big tobacco being such a large lobby in Washington and doesn't have their hands in the till for the $ to come in from it. Get a tobacco company involved and I'd bet juices would be everywhere. Embrace the enemy!

Here's the link to the local broadcast. It doesn't include the vid testing and comment for some reason. I checked the Health vids and found 2 more...still not the FDA testing one......hmmmmm
WBNS 10TV : FDA Warning On Electronic Cigarettes - WBNS-10TV, Central Ohio's News Leader

Happy Vaping........time for a little 601 action!

 

[Stehle]

Last night MSNBC and a local news had coverage on the e cigs.
Naturally, they just couldn't talk about positive aspects, but there was one vid clip showing the FDA testing some e juice from China.
They stated they weren't as safe as professed due to some manufacturers including ethyl glycol (SP) (didn't hear the name well)...essentially the glycolene.
They claimed it was a carcinogen also found in cigarettes.

Earlier in this thread is a reference of 12.3% glycolene in the Seedman flavor enhancers and its "intended to evaporate" prior to the tobacco burning.
It must be being used a solvent for other ingredients. There should be a safe substitute.
Using it as a liquid would possibly be a greater concentration of something we don't want if I read this all right.

I find it odd the FDA chooses to fight a battle this way. Pick one ingredient that they already allow(and must approve) in cigarettes among 1000's of others to be their champion?
Pretty weak argument if you ask me.

IMHP it all comes down to big tobacco being such a large lobby in Washington and doesn't have their hands in the till for the $ to come in from it. Get a tobacco company involved and I'd bet juices would be everywhere. Embrace the enemy!

Here's the link to the local broadcast. It doesn't include the vid testing and comment for some reason. I checked the Health vids and found 2 more...still not the FDA testing one......hmmmmm
WBNS 10TV : FDA Warning On Electronic Cigarettes - WBNS-10TV, Central Ohio's News Leader

Happy Vaping........time for a little 601 action!

A very informative post Vaporer! I'll definitely will pass this info on!