I believe E-cigs would be perfect if the nicotine in it was made so it felt just like a real cigarette. I hope the E-cig companies are looking into this - whether the solution lies in "free-basing" the nicotine or changing the pH, I don't know.
Tweaking the nicotine
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8-o
Please put me on your list to inform me when it's ready.A representative from Ruyan emailed me that a large part of the problem with making ecigs more like analogs is that ecigs lack MAOIs. Do you understand this theory?
Say what? 
I really get the same experience. Only instead of 3 cigarettes in a row to get my head swimming, I just vape for a while.
What is the difference you feel?
I really get the same experience. Only instead of 3 cigarettes in a row to get my head swimming, I just vape for a while.
What is the difference you feel?
Monoamine oxidase inhibitor
Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) are a class of powerful antidepressant drugs prescribed for the treatment of depression. They are particularly effective in treating atypical depression, and have also shown efficacy in helping smokers to quit.
Due to potentially lethal dietary and drug interactions, MAOIs had been reserved as a last line of defense, used only when other classes of antidepressant drugs (for example selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and tricyclic antidepressants) have been tried unsuccessfully. Recently, however, a patch form of the drug selegiline, called Emsam, was developed. It was approved for use by the FDA on February 28, 2006. When applied transdermally the drug does not enter the gastro-intestinal system as it does when taken orally, thereby decreasing the dangers of dietary interactions associated with MAOI pills.
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WHAT??!!!
If this could be true.....then this info would be very important to know while we try and get approval for the e-cig.
I wonder how we could find out for sure?
I don't think calling it an antidepressant drug when referring to cigarettes is accurate. Basically a MAOI reacts with the nicotine to make it cross the blood-brain barrier faster.
Just trying to understand the "brain hit" thing. Is there less "brain hit" because vapor is not absorbed in the lungs, or because it does not contain MAOIs, or both? Thanks.
OK... It's the dang "lung" thing again!! So far I've read that the nicotine gets absorbed in the lungs, does not get absorbed in the lungs and approx 10% gets absorbed in the lungs. I have searched this forum for the correct answer but was not able to find the thread... So which is it??????
I do get a similar "kick" from the 510 as an analog. It's surprising that some here profess they do not. Thinking about it.... My smoking style is different than most smokers and this maybe a contributing factor. My style is to smoke 2~4 cigarettes back to back (chain) as fast as I can possibly do so. After years of traveling with work I can effortlessly smoke two faster than a normal smoker can finish one. Many road guys smoke this way so its nothing special.
I'm also huffing the 24 mg stuff and am basically using the 510 in a similar manner. I also take absolutely NO meds whatsoever which these days is also kind of rare.
But I DO get a very similar "kick" from the 510 and get it as quickly as using an analog. Anybody here have a theory on why???
Respects
After years on Prozac, Wellbutran, etc., etc., I started the Emsam Patch about 2 1/2 years ago, 9mg about twice a week. There are major warnings to avoid eating certain foods and drinking different alcohol beverages... fortunately I didn't indulge in most sited anyway. Dr. never mentioned an association with cigarettes though I was a 2 pk a day smoker. Only when I started vaping May 2009 did I realize I had quit smoking, not having bought a pack of analogs in over a week. With 901's and a few 103's a few flavor loaded carts, out the door and just flavor inhale, mostly "0" nic carts all day long. Worried as most of us are that Big Bro is going to screw it up .. for all of us. PM me if you have any ?'s on the Emsam. Sunnyday
Do you know anything more about the possibility of "tweaking" the nicotine so that it can be absorbed by the lungs? thanks
some wiki info:
As a nitrogenous base, nicotine forms salts with acids that are usually solid and water soluble. Nicotine easily penetrates the skin. As shown by the physical data, free base nicotine will burn at a temperature below its boiling point, and its vapors will combust at 308 K (35 °C; 95 °F) in air despite a low vapor pressure. Because of this, most of the nicotine is burned when a cigarette is smoked; however, enough is inhaled to provide the desired effects. The amount of nicotine inhaled with tobacco smoke is a fraction of the amount contained in the tobacco leaves.
Most cigarettes (in the smoke inhaled) contain 0.1 to 2.8 milligrams of nicotine.
As nicotine enters the body, it is distributed quickly through the bloodstream and can cross the blood-brain barrier. On average it takes about seven seconds for the substance to reach the brain when inhaled. The half life of nicotine in the body is around two hours.
Gluconuration and oxidative metabolism of nicotine to cotinine are both inhibited by menthol, an additive to mentholated cigarettes, thus increasing the half-life of nicotine in vivo
Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, only after co-administration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.
so no to freebase, no to MAOI's
oh and,
Research suggests that, when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine. This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a high level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer in increasing dosages and use.
*this could be translated to how long you hold in the vapor, ergo how much of it you allow to condense in the lungs (delivering more nicotine)
As a nitrogenous base, nicotine forms salts with acids that are usually solid and water soluble. Nicotine easily penetrates the skin. As shown by the physical data, free base nicotine will burn at a temperature below its boiling point, and its vapors will combust at 308 K (35 °C; 95 °F) in air despite a low vapor pressure. Because of this, most of the nicotine is burned when a cigarette is smoked; however, enough is inhaled to provide the desired effects. The amount of nicotine inhaled with tobacco smoke is a fraction of the amount contained in the tobacco leaves.
Most cigarettes (in the smoke inhaled) contain 0.1 to 2.8 milligrams of nicotine.
As nicotine enters the body, it is distributed quickly through the bloodstream and can cross the blood-brain barrier. On average it takes about seven seconds for the substance to reach the brain when inhaled. The half life of nicotine in the body is around two hours.
Gluconuration and oxidative metabolism of nicotine to cotinine are both inhibited by menthol, an additive to mentholated cigarettes, thus increasing the half-life of nicotine in vivo
Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, only after co-administration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.
so no to freebase, no to MAOI's
oh and,
Research suggests that, when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine. This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a high level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer in increasing dosages and use.
*this could be translated to how long you hold in the vapor, ergo how much of it you allow to condense in the lungs (delivering more nicotine)
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The upshot appears to be that MAIO's present in tobacco smoke act in synergy with nicotine to reinforce the reward effect of nicotine.
e-cigs and NRT's do not provide this synergy.
Just search for "nicotine" and "MAOI", you'll find plenty of abstracts.
e-cigs and NRT's do not provide this synergy.
Just search for "nicotine" and "MAOI", you'll find plenty of abstracts.
A few quick points:
* Freebase form is the useful form; non-freebase may barely be absorbed / active.
* If the MAOI - nic combo makes e-cigs more successful as an alternative to smoking for more people this is worth considering, not dismissed without careful consideration.
* The loss of nicotine might actually be higher in the e-cig than in analogs.
* Freebase form is the useful form; non-freebase may barely be absorbed / active.
* If the MAOI - nic combo makes e-cigs more successful as an alternative to smoking for more people this is worth considering, not dismissed without careful consideration.
* The loss of nicotine might actually be higher in the e-cig than in analogs.
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