Why doesn't BT jump on board?

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listopencil

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BT is trying to find a vaping alternative that is different than what experienced vapers are going for. Think about it. The stuff that we look for isn't good business for them. They want a highly branded, extremely convenient, disposable product. That should interest MTL vapers though. BT can provide the push for smaller and smaller 'mods' that are more like traditional smoking products. That means more efficiency in smaller batteries. That means more electronic sophistication in smaller devices. Eventually they will come out with something like a 2 ml tank/carto and pen vape mod that lasts all day. It may look like an elite cig-alike at over 1k mAh. Maybe the device itself will look like a cigarillo or a Swisher Sweet, with half the device being the battery and half the device being the tank/carto, with a box that performs as a charger sitting at 3 to 4.5k mAh. The charger will be box shaped and branded like a pack of smokes. Room can be saved aside for a 2/4/6 ml bottle of branded juice.

What they need is a product that looks like a pack of cigarettes on the shelf. Then, when you open it, you need to be able to puff on it as you hold it like a smoke. Then it goes back in the box. The problem they haven't solved yet is that they seem to want to make it practically all disposable and that's blowing up in their faces. I think their best bet is to invest into a cig-alike AIO like what I described. And then sell starter kits, proprietary atomizers, branded juice (that they damn well better make sure tastes like their brands) and all the bits and pieces that MTL vapers go for. Like fancy drip tips, fancy boxes, VV/VW/TC on their pens.

Meanwhile BT can focus on a cigar version for cloud chasers. It could be the same set up or they could actually do them up, like a Vamo for instance. Hell...buy the rights to Provari and crank up production, make them e-cigars. At this point you have a bigger device that would fit a sizable internal battery, decent electronics, and a branded tank. It would come with BT branded juice of course. BT can do this stuff and they are probably already working on it.
 
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mcclintock

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    Vuse does have the Vibe out now, a more pen-like device. Some of the comments on their site say they tried to quit with the cigalikes and couldn't until the Vibe. Features an "innovative" screw-on tank and everything ;) .

    I think most BT ecigs are somewhat suited to smokers looking to try something else, or use some places they can't smoke (esp. since so many don't smoke inside their own homes), but without really tempting them to stop smoking completely. As to vape shops, it doesn't help that 90% of the stuff in them is of no immediate interest to most.
     

    Robino1

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    BT is trying to find a vaping alternative that is different than what experienced vapers are going for. Think about it. The stuff that we look for isn't good business for them. They want a highly branded, extremely convenient, disposable product. That should interest MTL vapers though. BT can provide the push for smaller and smaller 'mods' that are more like traditional smoking products. That means more efficiency in smaller batteries. That means more electronic sophistication in smaller devices. Eventually they will come out with something like a 2 ml tank/carto and pen vape mod that lasts all day. It may look like an elite cig-alike at over 1k mAh. Maybe the device itself will look like a cigarillo or a Swisher Sweet, with half the device being the battery and half the device being the tank/carto, with a box that performs as a charger sitting at 3 to 4.5k mAh. The charger will be box shaped and branded like a pack of smokes. Room can be saved aside for a 2/4/6 ml bottle of branded juice.

    What they need is a product that looks like a pack of cigarettes on the shelf. Then, when you open it, you need to be able to puff on it as you hold it like a smoke. Then it goes back in the box. The problem they haven't solved yet is that they seem to want to make it practically all disposable and that's blowing up in their faces. I think their best bet is to invest into a cig-alike AIO like what I described. And then sell starter kits, proprietary atomizers, branded juice (that they damn well better make sure tastes like their brands) and all the bits and pieces that MTL vapers go for. Like fancy drip tips, fancy boxes, VV/VW/TC on their pens.

    Meanwhile BT can focus on a cigar version for cloud chasers. It could be the same set up or they could actually do them up, like a Vamo for instance. Hell...buy the rights to Provari and crank up production, make them e-cigars. At this point you have a bigger device that would fit a sizable internal battery, decent electronics, and a branded tank. It would come with BT branded juice of course. BT can do this stuff and they are probably already working on it.

    The problem with making the liquid taste exactly like the cigarette is they will have to have additives just like they do in their tobacco.

    The reason their cigarettes taste the same from pack to pack is all the manipulations the add. Tobacco crops vary in flavor from season to season. All dependent on sun, rain and soil.

    Even the tobacco used for NETs changes slightly depending on the crop. People that know their NETs can tell a slight difference when the base NET changes. The extraction process also has a play in how that liquid tastes.


    I wouldn't touch BT products with a ten foot pole.
     

    listopencil

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    The problem with making the liquid taste exactly like the cigarette is they will have to have additives just like they do in their tobacco.

    The reason their cigarettes taste the same from pack to pack is all the manipulations the add. Tobacco crops vary in flavor from season to season. All dependent on sun, rain and soil.

    Even the tobacco used for NETs changes slightly depending on the crop. People that know their NETs can tell a slight difference when the base NET changes. The extraction process also has a play in how that liquid tastes.


    I wouldn't touch BT products with a ten foot pole.


    I couldn't give any less of a crap about how their fluid tastes. I want them to push the industry towards innovation.
     
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    DaveP

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    There are a lot of veteran e-cig users who want the very same thing. Many of us are tired of the "hobby" aspect of vaping and just want something simple that consistently works. It's one of the reasons why pod mods are beginning to take off.

    That's probably the same reason I bought 8 new MTL atties first of the year {still stocking up ahead of the FDA) and I'm just getting around to cleaning the oil and metal taste out of them with alcohol and water. That worked fine to clean them up and I'm happy with the result.

    Now, to see if there's one in the bunch that can make me put my Kayfun Lite Plus V2 in the drawer! Once an atty grows on you it's hard to give it up.

    I don't mind changing wicks a couple of times a week to keep the vape fresh. Re-coiling is so easy once you develop the technique that it only takes a few minutes every 3 or 4 weeks.

    My friend tells me he gets about a month out of a TFV4 coil. At that rate, factory coils make sense. Pod Mods are cute, but don't give me the urge to jump. They are too eGo like for me to consider them. Yes, I know that many just want to pop on a cartridge and vape, but I'm set in my RTA ways.
     
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    1/2 fast

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    I wouldn't touch BT products with a ten foot pole.

    ^^^^This^^^^
    They'll use some bovine pucky term like "flavor stabilizer" to make sure they can put something highly addictive in the juice. All the while sitting across the table from the FDA winking at each other. I think we could bet it will be business as usual.
     

    stols001

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    Look we ARE or have been BT slaves for a long time. The fact that we VAPE now is the amazing part, not BT's totally ENRON-likeness business ploys. To be hoBnest... Those "Don't smoke for the youth" companies, and other ads, well, they still envoke the desire in me... even if the focus in one is, "Your pets die 25% faster thanks to vape smoke."

    Yes, they actually chose to make that point.

    My brother has the same effect, he's like "Yeah I try to avoid those." All those folks sporting oxygen tanks and/or whatever it is you get when they cut out your vocal cords talking about it wasn't worth it. And the pets save the freaking pets! I was like, "Uh huh pets, I feel bad for you if that's the case.... But, I highly doubt it. And all the buzzy lights and screen flashes? Oh, I definitely want a cigarette after that.

    BT is SO GOOD at marketing, they can make a negative ads for the kids, but even the kids won't fall for that number.... Sigh, we had a slew of ant-vaping ads and they want me to kick the roof! I mean the statements are so palpably false that.... Well, they'd be good to get kids smoking, I usually have to do some cranial rearangement and deep breathing before I can EVEN get to my vape. Sigh.

    BT doesn't jump on board because it doesn't HAVE to. Their small market of cigalikes will be just fine (though Eskie says that market is actually the biggest for e-cigs.) BT knows how to market (gasstations, ease of use) JUST enough money that the hapless smoker returns to smoking or just continues burning money. We don't see that of course, but I'd say fairly soon here all smokers are going to be handed the IQO-S or whatever it's called and smokers would go "oooh." No thanks, I smoked Marlboros for a long time and I don't miss them at all, so I'm not going to "vape" something that smells and looks like a Marlboro, stuffed with some white stick. No thank you, but I'm betting I will see them around...

    Anna
     

    Canadian_Vaper

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    I wouldn't touch BT products with a ten foot pole.

    Completely agree even if they did come out with a decent vape who the hell knows what additives they will add in, they seem perfectly fine adding things like ammonia to tobacco, I wouldn't trust their products for a second..

    This is what a lot of the Anti's just don't get, how many times have I seen people that don't know the industry assume it is run by big tobacco and while sure they may have a lot of sales with things like cigalikes the truth is big tobacco has a very small role in the industry, a tonne of us haven't even touched a big tobacco vape product nevermind own one especially in Canada where they have pretty much never have been sold..
     

    djsvapour

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    In another area (forum) of the ECF, I posted a comment "be careful what you wish for".
    Von Earl is reported to have signed a distribution deal with Fontem Ventures, part of Imperial tobacco.
    So - I say to the people of this forum. If you don't want to encourage BT products, ditch Von Earl for starters.
    Stop recommending BT products or products that open the door further to BT.
    It's not hard. Don't let big tobacco win.
    Oh... and beware the AstroTurf.
     

    Layzee Vaper

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    BT don't need to develop good products, they are busy with the FDA developing policy......
    Unfortunately they have too much money and influence not to end up winning in the end.
    A large number of the current vendors will go bump once the regulations start to bite.
    BT will probably buy up what's left.
     
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    stols001

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    Wow. I don't want to live in a world in which BT controls vaping. They'd probably work on the additive part first, and then work on making vaping profitable. And vaping would be similar to smoking, in the sense that it would of course be made less appealing and more expensive....

    I should check Mexico's laws, just in case. Clearly, moving to Australia is now off the table. I am not sure I want to live in this country for many reasons.... I know very little about Mexico besides Nogales, as my mother has the worst dentist, in Nogales. He.... well, first he called me a ....-head for a long time, while I attempted to explain it was my meds, one of whom rotted my teeth out of my mouth, visibly. After that, he put his hairy man hands in my mouth and began talking about bone grafting. It's all hazy after that, other than recieving an obscene quote for STEEL implants, "They're from Switzerland, though!" Yeh, the swiss make some great time pieces but even I knew that everyone uses titanium. I looked at the sheet, went, "That's obscene, Mom, I'm doing it back home." She could not argue it was way too much money, so I went outside and yelled at passing vendors who approached me (it was therapeutic), until my mom came out with HER quote. I rode her so hard about dental implants on the way home and even made her promise to come to Nogales with her and her "best" dentist. Rather than do that, she decided to do it after she moved, LOL. And I found my lovely periodentist.

    But my point is, I LOVED Nogales in all it's epic glory. It's like a cheaper more dangerous part of Costa Rica, and the inhabitants (Tourists and residents) were so amazing! I really want to go back sometime. That being said, a week after dental adventures in Nogales I came down with a five days flu, that sucked. And, I don't need my periodontist talking about "cavader or even bovine bone grafting," There is no way on earth that I would get cadaver grafting in Mexico, here we have this sanitized stuff that's like specially designed. I'm not saying there aren't good dentists in Nogales, but mine was not one of them. That part was horrifying in a very special way.

    Anna
     

    djsvapour

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    BT don't need to develop good products, they are busy with the FDA developing policy......
    Unfortunately they have too much money and influence not to end up winning in the end.
    A large number of the current vendors will go bump once the regulations start to bite.
    BT will probably buy up what's left.

    The developing situation in Europe should tell us a bit about how things might pan out.
    The big vaping hardware manufacturers (Aspire, Eleaf, Joyetech, Smok etc.) are getting their products successfully through the regulations. If the map was re-drawn (new legislation) to allow only closed systems and those were predictably mostly made by tobacco companies, then the Chinese co.s aren't going to roll over. If BT tried to buy all the intellectual rights to hardware or even the companies themselves (not going to happen, this is China after all) they would still bounce back with new innovations. Unless BT can purchase the entire 'concept' (patents) of an electronic delivery device that covers all the various methods we understand and new ones yet to be discovered, then BT cannot own vaping entirely. They can 'own' vaping though with their marketing and take the lions share of all the sales, but vapers should tell new vapers and other vapers the truth. Most people who I meet using Blu pens are shocked to hear they are giving their money again to a tobacco company. The problem is the marketing is so blurred and people just want to buy and use products. Getting people to be all moral about who they buy from is almost impossible. That's the problem.
     

    retired1

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    In another area (forum) of the ECF, I posted a comment "be careful what you wish for".
    Von Earl is reported to have signed a distribution deal with Fontem Ventures, part of Imperial tobacco.
    So - I say to the people of this forum. If you don't want to encourage BT products, ditch Von Earl for starters.
    Stop recommending BT products or products that open the door further to BT.
    It's not hard. Don't let big tobacco win.
    Oh... and beware the AstroTurf.

    Really? I'd say that was excellent business move by the folks at Von Erl. One of the hardest aspects of getting a product out to the masses is distribution. Why reinvent the wheel when you can enter into an agreement with an established distributor and get your product more exposure?

    Logista (part of the Imperial Brands umbrella) has access to over 300,000 outlets in Europe. You'd be a fool not to jump all over something like that when you're trying to get a wider dissemination of your products.
     

    djsvapour

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    Really? I'd say that was excellent business move by the folks at Von Erl. One of the hardest aspects of getting a product out to the masses is distribution. Why reinvent the wheel when you can enter into an agreement with an established distributor and get your product more exposure?

    Logista (part of the Imperial Brands umbrella) has access to over 300,000 outlets in Europe. You'd be a fool not to jump all over something like that when you're trying to get a wider dissemination of your products.

    No, I agree. I good move for Von Earl.
    A bit of bad news for those of us determined to find a way to stall/slow down the rise of BT products.
     

    retired1

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    A bit of bad news for those of us determined to find a way to stall/slow down the rise of BT products.

    But it's not a BT product. Von Erl is using an established distribution chain which just happens to be owned in part by a tobacco company. What better way of getting your vape products out to those who need it, no?
     
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