[09/17/2014] ASH: New survey finds regular use of electronic cigarettes by children still rare

[Kent C]

To clarify, I was referring specifically to the official government orthodoxy that any amount of any tobacco product is equally as harmful as daily cigarette smoking, which actually dates to February 1986 (US Code, Title 15, Chapter 70, § 4402). So I should have included the Reagan and Bush 41 administrations in my previous comment.

The original 100 Stat. 30 of Feb 1986 said that smokeless tobacco was not a safe alternative to cigarettes. Not that it was equally as harmful as cigarettes. But yeah, it was considered unsafe then as well. Amazing that the original bill was only 6 pages. And of course, the data on Swedish snus proves that the level of harm is greatly less than cigs.

 

[Nate760]

The original 100 Stat. 30 of Feb 1986 said that smokeless tobacco was not a safe alternative to cigarettes. Not that it was equally as harmful as cigarettes. But yeah, it was considered unsafe then as well. Amazing that the original bill was only 6 pages. And of course, the data on Swedish snus proves that the level of harm is greatly less than cigs.

At any rate, we can conclusively point to that date as the dawn of the "US government actively contributing to smokers' deaths through deliberately false and misleading claims about non-combustible tobacco products" era.

 

[pamdis]

I would rather see Teens pick up a Vape with nic or not and feel like they have fullfilled their rebelious act against "THE MAN" then to pick up a Bottle or an analog!

And this is exactly why I oppose age restrictions on e-cigs. That, and the fact that under-age smokers should have easier access to e-cigs.

 

[pamdis]

I apologize if this is tangential, but I think it's pertinent: yesterday my daughter (16) asked if she could take a drag off my vaporizer. I said sure, go ahead. She recoiled in horror and said "That's disgusting! Is that nicotine juice?" I said yeah, it sure is. She said "None of the people I know who vape use nicotine. What the hell is the point?"

To reiterate: she knows about half a dozen people who vape, none of them use nicotine, and she doesn't know a single person who smokes cigarettes or has any inclination to do so. When I was her age, I'd estimate about 35% of the people at my high school were smokers.

I remember reading something a while back where ANTZ were discussing the 'confusion' of youth answering the questions about e-cigs. That the youth had their own terms, like 'vapes' and because of that they were answering the questions in the negative. That e-cig use may be underreported. That they needed to fix the surveys because of it.

But what your description points out is that youth may be making their own distinctions - e-cig's have nicotine, vapes do not?

Which means that youth are actually answering correctly, and that if ANTZ 'fix' their surveys, without realizing the distinction, then they will be over-reporting. Which of course, would show their continued mis-understanding of the real world, but would fit their agenda very nicely.

 

[Kent C]

And this is exactly why I oppose age restrictions on e-cigs. That, and the fact that under-age smokers should have easier access to e-cigs.

Totally agree. Why shouldn't they, too, have the opportunity to either stop smoking cigs or the chance of never smoking cigarettes, since some are going to experiment anyway - let it be with ecigs instead. They, perhaps more than anyone else, knows ecigs aren't a gateway to smoking - which many reject because of what is known about smoking. We're in the minority though, even around here

 

[pamdis]

Apropos to this, I just came across this comment to the FDA:

FDA-2014-N-0189-0644

This proposal conflicts with Executive Order 13563 of January 18, 2011 (the "EO") in two key ways in its initiation of a minimum age of purchase for nicotine delivery products.

First, the proposed rule relies on weak evidence for the proposition that nicotine has unique effects on the adolescent brain. The EO § 5 requires an agency to "ensure the objectivity of any scientific and technological information and processes used to support the agency’s regulatory actions." Yet, FDA relies on a single study using a rat model to support the proposition that nicotine has effects on adolescent brains, in particular to assert an increase in impulsivity. But the evidence that rat models can provide such information is poor, with studies showing that rats are poor models for comparing the effects of psychostimulants on humans. Mary C. Olmstead, Animal Models of Drug Addiction: Where do we go from here?, 59 Q. J. of Experimental Psychology 255, 263 (2006).

Second, while FDA notes the potential for harm reduction by substitution of cigarettes for electronic nicotine devices, Proposed Rule at 3, it neglects to consider whether allowing adolescents to choose electronic nicotine would dissuade them from smoking cigarettes -- thereby resulting in population harm deduction. Failure to consider this option violates the EO's mandate to "maxify net benefits."

 

[Nate760]

And, not to beat a dead horse, but the FDA's own guidelines indicate that there's no cause for concern, and little to no risk of abuse/dependence, in the long-term use of non-tobacco nicotine products by any healthy individual over age 12. Just as long as they're made by a deep-pocketed pharmaceutical company.

 

[Rickajho]

And this is exactly why I oppose age restrictions on e-cigs. That, and the fact that under-age smokers should have easier access to e-cigs.

Oooo - don't know if I really want to touch that one. But if I was...

It only seems fair - let alone reasonable - since Nicorette is only contraindicated for children under the age of 13. I mean, if they actually need Nicorette by the age of 13 then when the hell did they start smoking anyway?

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Eleven here, if only e-cigarettes had been around in the late 50s My 53 year habit might have been a lot shorter.

 

[Rickajho]

Eleven here, if only e-cigarettes had been around in the late 50s My 53 year habit might have been a lot shorter.

When I was a kid...

We din't need no stinkin' e-cigarettes. We had nuns - with rulers.

 

[Kent C]

When I was a kid...

We din't need no stinkin' e-cigarettes. We had nuns - with rulers.

Perhaps just as addictive, evidently

 

[Rickajho]

Perhaps just as addictive, evidently

Don't make me come git you.

(It's called a Nunzilla should anyone feel the need...)

 

[Kent C]

Don't make me come git you.

(It's called a Nunzilla should anyone feel the need...)

........ stoopid limit