18650 IMR Button Top?

[Punk In Drublic]

It takes a lot of practice to make a good solder joint, or weld, or really any sort of metal work. Owning a soldering iron and having splashed some solder doesn't mean you're good at it. A location that is likely to cause a runaway battery short is not the place to be learning.

 

[Baditude]

A somewhat related, but interesting observation from looking into button top options: Most of the button top batteries being sold are actually flat tops with a terminal attached to the top and secured with a second wrap. Protected ones (for use in a mech mod), have the circuit board in that topper and are a mm or 2 longer.

The vast majority of "protected" batteries are the wrong chemistry. ICR (protected) vs (unprotected) "safer chemistry hybrid" INR batteries.

All the protected batteries that I have come across don't have a high enough amp rating to be used for vaping...under 6 amps continuous discharge rating. Protected ICR batteries have been considered to be obsolete for vaping for a few years now.

Curious, what protected battery are you using in a mech mod and at what coil resistance?

 

[RedForeman]

The vast majority of "protected" batteries are the wrong chemistry. ICR (protected) vs (unprotected) "safer chemistry hybrid" INR batteries.

All the protected batteries that I have come across don't have a high enough amp rating to be used for vaping...under 6 amps continuous discharge rating. Protected ICR batteries have been considered to be obsolete for vaping for a few years now.

Interesting.

I swear I read something somewhere that most batteries currently available are now the latter style you mention. Might that be due to the "protection" being an add on circuit board versus being built into the battery itself?

All the more reason to use an ohms law calculator, and wind your coil carefully, before pressing the hot button on a mech. My coils usually run 1.5-2.5Ω, so on my single battery mech the continuous draw is just over 2A. The best option I was seeing without looking too hard was a protected battery that would do 10A max. Well within safety margins for me, but not to someone using sub-Ω coils or the like.

 

[Baditude]

The best option I was seeing without looking too hard was a protected battery that would do 10A max. Well within safety margins for me...

What protected battery has a 10 amp max continuous rating? The highest I've ever seen was 6.9 amps.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

The vast majority of "protected" batteries are the wrong chemistry. ICR (protected) vs (unprotected) "safer chemistry hybrid" INR batteries.

 

[Baditude]

Wise guy.

We are talking about "protected batteries" here. Show me a protected battery that is not classified as an ICR battery and with more than 6.8 amps continuous and I'll humblely concede I am wrong.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Wise guy.

We are talking about "protected batteries" here. Show me a protected battery that is not classified as an ICR battery and with more than 6.8 amps continuous and I'll humblely concede I am wrong.

Sorry Bad, I get confused with chemistries so have to reference Mooch

Agree on the amp rating, but is ICR a chemistry or just an identifier?

 

[bombastinator]

Wise guy.

We are talking about "protected batteries" here. Show me a protected battery that is not classified as an ICR battery and with more than 6.8 amps continuous and I'll humblely concede I am wrong.

My memory is a “protected” battery is just a battery with a fuse wired inside it. IIRC They haven’t really made em for a long time. Still might be a few around.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

My memory is a “protected” battery is just a battery with a fuse wired inside it. IIRC They haven’t really made em for a long time. Still might be a few around.

A protected battery is a battery with a current limiting circuit attached to the external positive end.

 

[puffon]

My memory is a “protected” battery is just a battery with a fuse wired inside it. IIRC They haven’t really made em for a long time. Still might be a few around.

Plenty still around:
RTD Vapor

 

[Baditude]

Maybe the terminology is outdated now...but

Battery chemistry FINALLY explained

 

[RedForeman]

What protected battery has a 10 amp max continuous rating? The highest I've ever seen was 6.9 amps.

I couldn't remember exactly, as I was just browsing and not buying. But I remembered it being a Sanyo and found a similar listing, although this is not the one I remember seeing. The classification is unclear as the datasheet link is broken. The best alternates were listed in the 6-8A range for what that's worth.

My mech is a single 18650 Siam Cube. Basically a billet tube with a contact switch in the bottom to close the circuit. The original batteries I am now disposing of eventually, were old Trustfires I bought from the same vendor. And in fact appear to have the protection added on. You can see the lip under the wrap. It's about 3mm thick. The battery pictured obtained in 2012-13-ish.

 

[bombastinator]

A protected battery is a battery with a current limiting circuit attached to the external positive end.

A fuse is a kind of current limiting circuit. If current is exceeded it limits it to zero. Once. I take it what you are saying though is that if you have, say, a battery that is rated for 20ma draw such a circuit would ACTUALLY make sure that no more than 20ma would come out while allowing up to 20ma to come out.

My suspicion was that there were both kinds made and the problem was one of language. They needed more specificity and a fuse is cheaper than a board. It also means that, to use some more accurate language, a “mosfet based electronically draw limited battery” would effectively turn a mech into a locked VW device with no settings or readouts.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Maybe the terminology is outdated now...but

Battery chemistry FINALLY explained

I am referencing Mooch’s video. I’ve read from a few sources that Batterybro is not the most reliable source of information.

 

[bombastinator]

I am referencing Mooch’s video. I’ve read from a few sources that Batterybro is not the most reliable source of information.

There’s a totally reliable source of information left in the world? In my experience There are only more reliable sources and less reliable sources. It’s all relative. This is why I generally prefer “mainstream” news. It’s not totally reliable, it’s just often a lot more reliable. More often than not the things “no one is talking about” aren’t being talked about because they’re garbage. Speaking relatively I tend to believe mooch over batterybros in some situations. Batterybros is a battery seller. They by definition have more skin in the game. They also have more resources though so it’s hard.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

A fuse is a kind of current limiting circuit. If current is exceeded it limits it to zero. Once. I take it what you are saying though is that if you have, say, a battery that is rated for 20ma draw such a circuit would ACTUALLY make sure that no more than 20ma would come out while allowing up to 20ma to come out.

My suspicion was that there were both kinds made and the problem was one of language. They needed more specificity and a fuse is cheaper than a board. It also means that, to use some more accurate language, a “mosfet based electronically draw limited battery” would effectively turn a mech into a locked VW device with no settings or readouts.

Agree that in this case, the circuit acts like a fuse. A fuse however has other factors involved such as it’s own resistance to which a circuit can be developed to mitigate that increase in resistance.

Example in the most layman’s terms. A 6 amp fuse could increase resistance by 0.5 ohms, a circuit, also 6 amp limited might increase that resistance by 0.05 ohms. These are not actual numbers but examples.

A circuit could limit output, but in this case it does not – it breaks the circuit if current is exceeded. And yes, one time limit when exceeded.

A Mosfet could be implemented into the circuit (IC) , but a Mosfet alone cannot protect the battery

 

[bombastinator]

Agree that in this case, the circuit acts like a fuse. A fuse however has other factors involved such as it’s own resistance to which a circuit can be developed to mitigate that increase in resistance.

Example in the most layman’s terms. A 6 amp fuse could increase resistance by 0.5 ohms, a circuit, also 6 amp limited might increase that resistance by 0.05 ohms. These are not actual numbers but examples.

A circuit could limit output, but in this case it does not – it breaks the circuit if current is exceeded. And yes, one time limit when exceeded.

A Mosfet could be implemented into the circuit (IC) , but a Mosfet alone cannot protect the battery

So what you were talking about actually was a fuse, just not an old style mechanical one. A one time circuit breaker. It wouldn’t even do continuous current limitation. That seems to me like a distinction without a difference.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

There’s a totally reliable source of information left in the world? In my experience There are only more reliable sources and less reliable sources. It’s all relative. This is why I generally prefer “mainstream” news. It’s not totally reliable, it’s just often a lot more reliable. More often than not the things “no one is talking about” aren’t being talked about because they’re garbage. Speaking relatively I tend to believe mooch over batterybros in some situations. Batterybros is a battery seller. They by definition have more skin in the game. They also have more resources though so it’s hard.

Admittedly I am not up to par with battery chemistries, so I have to reference what I feel is a reliable and objective source. And I feel Mooch, who works with batteries and battery companies is a reliable source.

Batterybro is a retailer. Not faulting the business, but retailers are not always a reliable source. Did you not have conflict with a retailer over a battery?

 

[Punk In Drublic]

So what you were talking about actually was a fuse, just not an old style mechanical one. A one time circuit breaker. It wouldn’t even do continuous current limitation. That seems to me like a distinction without a difference.

Yes, I wasn’t questioning your comment, just elaborating on it

 

[Baditude]

I am unable to drop a direct link at the moment, but if you click on the link below for my blog, go to my Deeper Understanding of Batteries Part TWO which explains what a protected battery actually does.