4.3V 18650 cells.

[ian-field]

Recently I acquired some Samsung ICR18650-28A cells, a test report on them mentions that they should be charged at 4.3V instead of the usual 4.2V, thinking it could be a typo I searched the data sheet - it is indeed 4.3V.

Since over charging is such a critical safety problem, and if there's 4.3V cells - there must also be 4.3V chargers. I'd say there is a need for people to be vigilant and make sure they are aware of the specifications to avoid mixing them.

It seems reasonable to assume that a 4.3V cell on a 4.2V charger will merely give disappointing performance, but a 4.2V cell on a 4.3V charger might well give an entirely different performance!!!

 

[edyle]

Recently I acquired some Samsung ICR18650-28A cells, a test report on them mentions that they should be charged at 4.3V instead of the usual 4.2V, thinking it could be a typo I searched the data sheet - it is indeed 4.3V.

Since over charging is such a critical safety problem, and if there's 4.3V cells - there must also be 4.3V chargers. I'd say there is a need for people to be vigilant and make sure they are aware of the specifications to avoid mixing them.

It seems reasonable to assume that a 4.3V cell on a 4.2V charger will merely give disappointing performance, but a 4.2V cell on a 4.3V charger might well give an entirely different performance!!!

I doubt a 4.3 volt cell will give disappointing performance; maybe you only get 95 to 99% charge, that's all.
It just means you're safe putting it in your 4.2 volt charger because there's no danger in overcharging it.

 

[IMFire3605]

An ICR, 5amp battery, speced in 2012 original run and design, 28amp is just a burst rating, not CDR. I wouldn't use it, the 20R even the 25R are far better for our purposes.

 

[MotoMudder]

Found this on them, tho no tests on high amps, its states losing 2200 mah by using 4.2v charger instead of 4.3. Im wondering how you can lose like 75% of the battery with .1v
Test of Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple)


OK, as stated above, that answers why no high amp tests. now the question is why they'd label a battery with its pulse rating instead of CDR like most labels.

Edit:
Was tired and seeing an extra 0. Loss is only 220mah.

 

[edyle]

Found this on them, tho no tests on high amps, its states losing 2200 mah by using 4.2v charger instead of 4.3. Im wondering how you can lose like 75% of the battery with .1v
Test of Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple)


OK, as stated above, that answers why no high amp tests. now the question is why they'd label a battery with its pulse rating instead of CDR like most labels.

ouch! that's a lot.

I scrolled through the page you linked to and could not find where you got those numbers from.

 

[MotoMudder]

ouch! that's a lot.

I scrolled through the page you linked to and could not find where you got those numbers from.

Bottom text.
But reading the graph more show that at 5amps, the battery lasts 30 min.

 

[IMFire3605]

Found this right under that link in Google

Is samsung icr18650 28a good? : electronic_cigarette

reading through it, I wouldn't trust that battery in a vaping situation.

 

[MotoMudder]

wait, now I cant find it

Below the graph for 4.2 charging. Middle of page

 

[Mooch]

Found this on them, tho no tests on high amps, its states losing 2200 mah by using 4.2v charger instead of 4.3. Im wondering how you can lose like 75% of the battery with .1v
Test of Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple)


OK, as stated above, that answers why no high amp tests. now the question is why they'd label a battery with its pulse rating instead of CDR like most labels.

The "28A" is part of the model number. It's just a (unfortunate) coincidence that it appears to be a current rating.

[edit] for anyone who might want more info, here's the datasheet: http://www.raytechpower.com/downloads.asp?id=20

Table 3, item #9 has the rated discharge limit, 5.6A.

 

[MotoMudder]

Stupid samsung

 

[edyle]

wait, now I cant find it

Below the graph for 4.2 charging. Middle of page

is that it?

I am looking at the red line graph and the blue vertical axis on the right.
the difference between 4.2 and 4.3 volts seems to be 3.25 Ah to 3.50 Ah; so looks like about 10 % to me, which is the kind of thing I would expect

 

[ian-field]

An ICR, 5amp battery, speced in 2012 original run and design, 28amp is just a burst rating, not CDR. I wouldn't use it, the 20R even the 25R are far better for our purposes.

Most likely I won't use it for my E-cig as I don't want to be worrying about 2 voltage standards. For one thing I'm using strapped parallel pairs for longer life, and these came as a series string of single cells.

As yet, I haven't thought of any other uses for 18650 cells, but when I do these cells can take the place of the drain on my stock of E-cig batteries.

A completely separate application with its own charger for a different voltage standard isn't a problem.

The point of my post is to highlight the need to look at the specifications - the mere existence of chargers for 4.3V cells could be a problem for people using 4.2V cells.

 

[IMFire3605]

I've found links dated back to 2008 for this battery model, so was designed long before we had high amp demanding sub-ohm vaping.

 

[edyle]

The "28A" is part of the model number. It's just a (unfortunate) coincidence that it appears to be a current rating.

[edit] for anyone who might want more info, here's the datasheet: http://www.raytechpower.com/downloads.asp?id=20

Table 3, item #9 has the rated discharge limit, 5.6A.

That is not an unfortunate coincidence. Nowadays it is a standard deceptive type of marketing ploy.

 

[edyle]

Most likely I won't use it for my E-cig as I don't want to be worrying about 2 voltage standards. For one thing I'm using strapped parallel pairs for longer life, and these came as a series string of single cells.

As yet, I haven't thought of any other uses for 18650 cells, but when I do these cells can take the place of the drain on my stock of E-cig batteries.

A completely separate application with its own charger for a different voltage standard isn't a problem.

The point of my post is to highlight the need to look at the specifications - the mere existence of chargers for 4.3V cells could be a problem for people using 4.2V cells.

that's right;
it's okay to have 4.3 volt variations of the lithium batteries being charged in 4.2 volt chargers
and
it's okay to charge 4.2 volt batteries in 4.1 volt chargers

but it would not be okay to have 4.3 volt chargers and you put 4.2 volt batteries in them
and
it would not be okay to have 4.1 volt batteries and you put them in your 4.2 volt charger.

 

[MotoMudder]

that's right;
it's okay to have 4.3 volt variations of the lithium batteries being charged in 4.2 volt chargers
and
it's okay to charge 4.2 volt batteries in 4.1 volt chargers

but it would not be okay to have 4.3 volt chargers and you put 4.2 volt batteries in them
and
it would not be okay to have 4.1 volt batteries and you put them in your 4.2 volt charger.

All are correct.

 

[Mooch]

That is not an unfortunate coincidence. Nowadays it is a standard deceptive type of marketing ploy.

I don't think Samsung was doing that but, I agree, it is done a lot nowadays. Displaying only the "pulse" rating (whatever that is), arbitrarily increasing the capacity rating...it's getting ridiculous.

 

[ian-field]

Found this on them, tho no tests on high amps, its states losing 2200 mah by using 4.2v charger instead of 4.3. Im wondering how you can lose like 75% of the battery with .1v
Test of Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple)


OK, as stated above, that answers why no high amp tests. now the question is why they'd label a battery with its pulse rating instead of CDR like most labels.

Lithium cells have a bulk charging phase and a topping charge phase, if you only charge it to specified voltage and then take it off, it doesn't get the topping charge - if you take it off before it reaches specified voltage, it loses a chunk of bulk charge too.

If the charge current is more or less constant during the bulk charging phase, VxA=W tells us that a loss of 0.1V between 4.2V and 4.3V makes a bigger difference than the same loss down at 2.75V - but I was surprised at the quoted 75% shortfall!

 

[ian-field]

All are correct.

Presumably you can get to the fireworks with less of a long wait by putting 4.1V cells in a 4.3V charger.

 

[crxess]

It seems reasonable to assume that a 4.3V cell on a 4.2V charger will merely give disappointing performance, but a 4.2V cell on a 4.3V charger might well give an entirely different performance!!!

What?
I don't think your thinking is right.