65Mg-75Mg E-Liquid

[Nick O'Teen]

Another factor we shouldnt forget is that normally nicotine is mostly in a bound form already, not much is freebase. The super pure nicotine is nearly all freebase, but that's before being added to PG/VG. There might be something going on there that nobody really knows as yet. We think it's just dissolved and while any bonding is likely not strong it might be signicant in some way, perhaps some other way (not a bonding issue exactly).

Indeed, and not just "before being added to PG/VG". Before being heated to beyond its boiling point in the presence of copious free oxygen and metals. I have come to believe that no matter how pure the juice, very little freebase nicotine actually makes it into the body when it's delivered this way. Whereas I can well believe that a lot more is delivered in the confines of a cigarette, with a moving heat gradient and depleted free oxygen (the air being drawn through the highest temperature combustion zone and consumed by the combustion before it reaches the zone in which nicotine is being evaporated from.)

Does anyone actually make an ultrasonically atomized ecig ATM do you know? I've seen Ruyan's patent, but I'm unable to find any devices on the market that use this principle.

 

[Vaporer]

The original e cig designer Hon Lik used an ultrasonic atty.
Here is the link to the patent.
Flameless electronic atomizing cigarette - Patent Application 20060196518

Vaporer

 

[hxj]

I have stuff in my house that will burn the skin and put a kid in a coma.

I have others that release nerve deadening agents.

Bleach, and air freshener.

Lets put things in perspective please. You don't leave nicotine liquids out in the open for your three year old any more than you give them a cup of bleach.

True, but here's where that argument falls down: kids drink bleach all the time. Sometimes from unattended cups.

Liquid household bleach ingestion in children: a retrospective review.

"...The records of 19 patients were reviewed. The mean age of children ingesting bleach was 24 months. Most children obtained the liquid from an open container such as a cup..."

It happens. Not everybody, sadly, is smart and careful, and there is still no IQ test to pass before getting a Parenthood License. And all it will take is ONE incident of some kid ODing on nic juice, and we can probably forget about 70 mg, 48 mg, or 2 mg for that matter because once the media gets through with the story, we won't have a friend left in the world.

Personally, I have no real opinion on higher-nic juices anyway, because I only vape zero-nic. Just pointing out that waving the "personal responsibility" flag doesn't get around the real-world problem: one nimrod mishandling a high-concentration juice could spoil the party for everyone. (Of course, the same could be said for existing concentrations, but obviously the risk goes up with higher doses.)

Need we look any further than the "prank" previously mentioned in this thread, which apparently (all I know is what I read here) led to someone drinking a few ml of nic juice and becoming ill? What if it had been a ml or two more, or a higher-nic juice, and led to an emergency room visit? What if it had been still more or still higher, and led to death?

Sure, no one hands a kid a cup of bleach... same way no one poisons someone with nicotine as a "prank."

 

[dave8944]

I'll say it again. We don't need higher nicotine content, just a more efficient device. How could it be that we could absorb such a small amount through our skin and get high or sick but still not get a buzz vaping? For whatever reason, the difference in effect is exponential. Many may be satisfying their nicotine addiction through handling and minor skin contact rather than anything but a small effect from vaping. Someone feeling the need for nicotine vapes and satisfies an oral need. Continued vaping leads to more vaping, not to because it actually satisfies any nicotine need directly, but only because it requires physical contact with the juice while reloading, cleaning, etc. which is were the real absorption of nicotine takes place.

 

[SLDS181]

True, but here's where that argument falls down: kids drink bleach all the time. Sometimes from unattended cups.

Which is what makes the argument better, not worse. Parents need to put their mixing materials somewhere safe, just like parents need to put harmful cleaning chemicals somewhere safe, or anything else a kid is going to die from.

You know, that crazy thing called "Responsibility".

 

[SSRob]

It is my understanding that nicotine needs mixed with another chemical, and I forget the name, to be easily absorbed by the skin.

 

[hxj]

Which is what makes the argument better, not worse. Parents need to put their mixing materials somewhere safe, just like parents need to put harmful cleaning chemicals somewhere safe, or anything else a kid is going to die from.

You know, that crazy thing called "Responsibility".

No one's going to disagree with you that that would be lovely, and in fact my kid is a big reason I refuse to use anything other than zero-nic juice. But the fact remains that many people are irresponsible, many are none too bright, and each and every very responsible, very bright person still makes mistakes. And I still say that as soon as there's a single near-fatal or fatal nic overdose involving a kid, the media will swarm, politicians looking for easy brownie points will mobilize, and nic juice will be banned so fast we'll see a frickin' Doppler shift.

Someone claimed that there are a million vapers in the U.S. right now. Even if that number is grossly overstated, do you really think it's realistic that not a SINGLE ONE of them is ever going to be irresponsible, stupid, or just make a mistake? Drop a bottle when a car backfires, miss a spill because you're in a rush, have to jump up in the middle of filling carts to deal with a smoke alarm and leave the juice unattended for two minutes, etc.

Like I said, obviously this can all happen and lead to disaster with existing nic juice concentrations, but as the concentration goes up, so does the likelihood that accidents will have more dire consequences, and I'm honestly doubtful that it's worth the risk. It's just my opinion, though, and it probably doesn't count for much, given that I use zero-nic anyway.

 

[Vaporer]

In post #60 of this thread I have an exerpt that states at what pH the lungs and the mucous membranes of the mouth and nasal passages adsorb nicotine. Some have stated that little vapor reaches the lungs. According to that study the higher pH would increase our needs from the device we are using. If all being true.
Has anyone pH'd the juice? I've noticed I get a better sensation at times than others. Coffee and vaping isn't one of them. Coffee is acidic. That follows the data in the post. If the juice is acidic and natural saliva is also, added to more acidic coffee, poor adsorption results as a nicotine salt isn't formed. I can see a little testing here. If someone can pH the juice and post it, all won't be the same, it would be a good start.

There is a compound in aspercream that will carry just about anything into the bloodstream.

Vaporer

 

[hxj]

Has anyone pH'd the juice? I've noticed I get a better sensation at times than others. Coffee and vaping isn't one of them. Coffee is acidic. That follows the data in the post. If the juice is acidic and natural saliva is also, added to more acidic coffee, poor adsorption results as a nicotine salt isn't formed.

Actually, I believe saliva (healthy saliva, that is) is slightly alkaline. That's what they taught us in chem class, anyway...

 

[Vaporer]

"In a perfect world with all other health parameters in place, the "averaged" pH of both urine and saliva will be right around the 6.4 level - and this would be at just about any time of day when tested"
pH Range

Vaporer

 

[hxj]

"In a perfect world with all other health parameters in place, the "averaged" pH of both urine and saliva will be right around the 6.4 level - and this would be at just about any time of day when tested"
pH Range

Vaporer

Not sure why we should trust that source: "biomedx: Where science and logic meet complementary and natural health practice." They're hawking products such as "BIORACULOUS! The Green Food Even Children Love to Drink!" Seems that there's a whole lot of stuff out there on the 'net about eating specific foods to make your saliva more acidic or more alkaline in order to promote better health.

Not that Wikipedia is exactly an unimpeachable source, but at least it tends to cite sources, so I checked there, and it doesn't much help. On the saliva page, it states that alpha-amylase, the main digestive enzyme in human saliva, "has a pH optima of 7.4." Meaning that amylase, which begins the chemical digestive process by breaking starches down into simple sugars (try it! chew on a saltine long enough and it starts tasting sweet), functions best in saliva with a pH of 7.4, which is slightly alkaline.

BUT on Wikipedia's page for amylase, it states that "its optimum pH is 6.7-7.0." Which is slightly acidic to neutral.

Any doctors, biologists, etc., want to chime in?

 

[Vaporer]

hxj,

Yea, I just used them as a quick ref.
I've always remembered reading it as acidic.
The article I referenced in post #60 states that max best pH for oral is 6.9 - 7.5.
Being slightly basic will convert it to a salt and adsorb via the tissue of the mouth.
Just a matter of trying to make the nicotine adsorbtion more efficient.

Many people have commented they vape all day. Not like having an analog and time before the next. I doubt we can ever get it to satisfy the nic craving as fast as an analog if you read what the article states.

I don't remember where, but someone stated the efficiency of the nic we get from an e cig. ( I do wish they would have called it something else)
I'm simply looking for the most efficient method and conditions for vaping.
I appreciate your comments and challenges keeping me straight.

I agree, lets get some professionally educated people in these fields in the mix here.

Vaporer

 

[miketr]

I don't understand why the eLiquid nicotine is not absorbed through the lungs, specifically. The vapor gets into your lungs, like an analog's smoke does. I've read some vague references to the analog's tar aiding the nicotine uptake, and possibly bases increase the absorption as well, but I really don't understand what I've read. Can someone who thinks they understand this and can communicate it effectively talk about that, or point me to a post on these massive forums where this is explained in lay terms?
It would really help me follow this thread to understand that point. I'm not so good at reading scientific studies and gleaning much from them. Sorry, and thanks.

 

[Vaporer]

There was a post on the particle size from our units method of atomization and being to large for much to reach the lungs with a reference to its efficiency. That being said, if its true, the acidic nicotine will adsorb in the lungs, or what makes it there.
Since we know for a fact it reaches the mouth, throat and nasal passages, we were discussing ways to maximize its adsorbtion in known heavly contacted areas. The article I posted in #60 of this thread says nicotine that is higher pH(up to 7.5) will adsorb better in the mouth.
If that were acomplished, stronger mg of juice wouldnt be needed or you could cut higher mg juices, still get the nic fix and save money.

I think thats pretty much the cliff notes on the latest part.

Vaporer

 

[AngeLsLuv]

Just got the Totally Wicked newsletter, they are officially offering "Platinum Ice" 54mg Mixing Juice 30ml for $35.99

Platinum Ice 54mg Mixing Juice / Totally Wicked eLiquid / Electronic Cigarette eLiquid Store

 

[a2dcovert]

Do you think maybe substituting another nic method through the day and then cutting down on that might help?

Hi DaBrat,

I talked to my GP yesterday during a normal visit. I explained to him what was going on. He recommended trying to use the Nicorett gum to give me additional nicotine. He is very supportive of my efforts to stay off of cigarettes. He has tried for years to encourage me to quit cigarettes.

K

 

[MVP]

Just got the Totally Wicked newsletter, they are officially offering "Platinum Ice" 54mg Mixing Juice 30ml for $35.99

Platinum Ice 54mg Mixing Juice / Totally Wicked eLiquid / Electronic Cigarette eLiquid Store

That price appears to be with a discount that expires the day before "Platinum Ice" is released. Or am I reading their page wrong?

 

[DaMulta]

That's with the discount that ends the day before it's release/

 

[AngeLsLuv]

I thought that the discount was for all the products at the site.. Noticed that they are sold out of it already... I just can't imagine anyone cutting all that, we're talking drop for drop .. Some to add to a lower mg juice though... I thought $4.19 at LightInTheBox was cool and bought a dozen, but it's only 18mg so I'll need to add more mg's since I add flavorings..

Just would feel stupid buying one bottle of this 54mg juice at a time *LOL*..

I didn't know that above 10 bottles at Healthcabin classifies you as Wholesale so it's $5 a bottle and they have 24mg until after I made the order...

 

[Nick O'Teen]

That price appears to be with a discount that expires the day before "Platinum Ice" is released. Or am I reading their page wrong?

It ought to say "Coming Soon" rather than "Sold Out", since they haven't had any yet - but it will be worth the wait
I guess their templates apply the discount to everything on the site, regardless of whether it's actually available yet.