901 atomizer disassembly

[kinabaloo]

Try it :

That is the full size Pete.

Looks like a metal sponge!

ps: send you a PM with a link; something to try, if you have a minute spare

 

[JaneDoe]

What the hell is this foamy metal ? ? ?

I suppose it could be tested to see if there is any lead in it??

 

[mogur]

The following video shows that it is slightly magnetic, so I would assume that it is a low nickel content stainless steel composition. It also looks like the foam resulting from a process where they sinter metal powder with an organic foaming agent such as polyurethane, leaving an open cell mesh of extremely high porosity (>90%), after removal of the foaming agent.

http://img531.imageshack.us/img531/8183/mvi5127wc8.flv

 

[Cobain76]

Absolutely awesome set of drawings!

 

[MonkeyMonk]

This is great! Thank you so much for all the work and for sharing!!!

 

[julliefishes]

Thank you mogur for sharing all your brilliant drawings and photos in our community, so that we may advance in our knowledge. Although I don't understand it, I do know that this entailed a lot of patience, intelligence and great effort. I greatly appreciate people like you who altuistically share your expertise. Thanks again, mogur!

 

[kinabaloo]

It also looks like the foam resulting from a process where they sinter metal powder with an organic foaming agent such as polyurethane, leaving an open cell mesh of extremely high porosity (>90%), after removal of the foaming agent.

That's a good suggestion - very likely mogur. I wonder if there is much tin in this alloy (or tin plated)?

 

[exogenesis]

I didn't do atomic analysis on this material when I looked at wick & coil
composition cos I assumed it to be 304 stainless steel or similar
(saw the same weakish attraction to neodymium magnets).

Could find out next week if it's really of interest.


Very neat drawings mogur.

 

[mogur]

I greatly appreciate all the kind words.

Exo, I just am curious about it. If we knew what it is, and there is a source for it, it might be worth playing with. As you know, that bridge isn't necessary except to transport juice via capillary action from the cartridge reservoir to the metal foam reservoir in front of the coil. Seems like that cartridge reservoir may be more for convenience and selling replaceables. Dripping/injecting might be better served from in front of the coil, instead of downstream. Once vaporized, why should it have to fight its way past a cartridge?

 

[kinabaloo]

Dripping/injecting might be better served from in front of the coil, instead of downstream. Once vaporized, why should it have to fight its way past a cartridge?

I agree and have posted my thoughts on this previously:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...d-idea-atomiser-juice-battery.html#post120828

 

[Cisco]

From some research it looks like the metal wrapped around the atomizer is called Metal foam or in this case I think Nickel Foam. Most seem to be constructed from aluminum. But obviously because its magnetic its not aluminum

Google Image Search for "Metal Foam"

Nice cad work mogur


Cisco...

 

[kinabaloo]

From some research it looks like the metal wrapped around the atomizer is called Metal foam or in this case I think Nickel Foam. Most seem to be constructed from aluminum. But obviously because its magnetic its not aluminum

Google Image Search for "Metal Foam"

Nice cad work mogur


Cisco...

Looks similar yes. Probably a type of. Perhaps tin or a nckel-tin alloy. Maybe alnico (ally and nickel) ?

We're getting close !

 

[scintar]

Good work guys! I have been fortunate to not have a dead one yet but when i do I will he some input here.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Excellent pics here, folks.
What we need is a person who knows electronics schematics to post the details on these components. Then someone to post where they can be bought at some local shops and built at home. I'd be willing to bet that someone will build one that works far better than the ones available. It would be a great stepping stone to help us if the feds lock these down.

 

[.308]

I'd like to say, Mogur, good work. And hail from Everett neighbor! What you are looking at is a simple steel heating element with ceramic insulator. The mesh material appears to be a copper nickel alloy, hence it breaking after a short time. The solution for this problem would be a 80/20 nickel-chromium alloy and I'd bet it would last for at least a year of daily use.

Keep in mind, no disrespect to suppliers, that failing units are their cash cow. If you buy a $10 atomizer and it lasts a year or more, there would be no more money in it for them. Exactly the same reason that they don't have protection circuits in the batteries, you fry one, you buy 2 more etc. etc.

 

[.308]

Furthermore, if you wanted one to pretty much last forever, use molybdenum disilicide elements, but you'd pretty much need at least a constant 3.7v. So you'd be looking at having to switch to I don't know, an 18650 Li-ion battery system?

 

[Tom09]

Thought that I could contribute some pictures on the mesh question here.

As suggested, the atomizer mesh probably consists of foam nickel (a.k.a. nickel foam, bubble nickel). This material is magnetic and has been listed in several breakdowns of an electronic cigarette. Googled examples: some inspection report (“Foamnickel” on page 7), some supplier’s assessment on safety (“Bubble Nickel” in first table, item 7), probably one of the various versions of Ruyan’s patent applications (“Liquid guide unit 705 is a multi-layer nickel foam web...”) .

Below should appear a close-up series of an atomizer (Mini Fogger). The most detailed image reveals the highly characteristic structure of this metal foam (bubble joints). The structure compares well with metal foam in the electron images posted by [post=281832]Cisco[/post]

The structure indicates that this metal foam must have been derived by replacing a reticulated polymer (polyurethane) foam precursor. Two general methods can be used for production of this type of metal foam: (a) investment casting, and (b) metal deposition on the polymer precursor, followed by high temperature treatment to anneal the metal and burn out the polymer. Metal deposition is the less expensive mass production process. Foam products are distinct by the cross section of the struts: (a) filled struts result from investment casting, (b) hollow struts are obtained if the precursor is burned out after metal deposition. It’s the hollow struts type that is present in this atomizer‘s metal foam (does not show up in the posted optical image).

Most probably, we have foam nickel, produced on a metal deposition route. Possible production methods for this material include electrochemical deposition and/or vapor deposition (Ni carbonyl) processes. This type of material is mass-produced for the battery industry.

 

[exogenesis]

Nice image, thanks for the details.

Will definately do an atomic analysis on this stuff later next week,
the magnetic properties fooled me into thinking it was a steel material.

 

[Tom09]

I’ve certainly recognized the XPS data in some of our posts. Will be good to have similar analyses for the mesh. Thanks for your contributions.

 

[mogur]

I'd like to say, Mogur, good work. And hail from Everett neighbor! What you are looking at is a simple steel heating element with ceramic insulator. The mesh material appears to be a copper nickel alloy, hence it breaking after a short time. The solution for this problem would be a 80/20 nickel-chromium alloy and I'd bet it would last for at least a year of daily use.
Keep in mind, no disrespect to suppliers, that failing units are their cash cow. If you buy a $10 atomizer and it lasts a year or more, there would be no more money in it for them. Exactly the same reason that they don't have protection circuits in the batteries, you fry one, you buy 2 more etc. etc.

Many, many, my friend. I used to live on Pine street, in N Everett, and worked at Publishers Forest Products next to Nord Door (decades ago).

Nice image, thanks for the details.
Will definately do an atomic analysis on this stuff later next week,
the magnetic properties fooled me into thinking it was a steel material.

Looking forward to your analysis, exo. The magnetic properties of the foam fooled me into thinking it was a non-nickel alloy of stainless steel. The addition of at least 8% nickel to stainless creates an austenitic stainless steel with the least magnetic properties of all the common alloys. Ferritic and martensitic alloys contain no nickel and are definitely magnetic. A moderate amount of nickel (4-8%) along with chromium and a moderate amount of molybdenum is used in producing duplex stainless, with a combination of ferritic and austenitic structures. Duplex stainless is very weakly magnetic, unlike what I saw with the foam. Tom has it pinned down pretty solid, though-

Thought that I could contribute some pictures on the mesh question here.

As suggested, the atomizer mesh probably consists of foam nickel (a.k.a. nickel foam, bubble nickel). This material is magnetic and has been listed in several breakdowns of an electronic cigarette. Googled examples: some inspection report (“Foamnickel” on page 7), some supplier’s assessment on safety (“Bubble Nickel” in first table, item 7), probably one of the various versions of Ruyan’s patent applications (“Liquid guide unit 705 is a multi-layer nickel foam web...”) .

Below should appear a close-up series of an atomizer (Mini Fogger). The most detailed image reveals the highly characteristic structure of this metal foam (bubble joints). The structure compares well with metal foam in the electron images posted by [post=281832]Cisco[/post]

The structure indicates that this metal foam must have been derived by replacing a reticulated polymer (polyurethane) foam precursor. Two general methods can be used for production of this type of metal foam: (a) investment casting, and (b) metal deposition on the polymer precursor, followed by high temperature treatment to anneal the metal and burn out the polymer. Metal deposition is the less expensive mass production process. Foam products are distinct by the cross section of the struts: (a) filled struts result from investment casting, (b) hollow struts are obtained if the precursor is burned out after metal deposition. It’s the hollow struts type that is present in this atomizer‘s metal foam (does not show up in the posted optical image).

Most probably, we have foam nickel, produced on a metal deposition route. Possible production methods for this material include electrochemical deposition and/or vapor deposition (Ni carbonyl) processes. This type of material is mass-produced for the battery industry.

Nice analysis, Tom. It never occured to me that the foam was pure nickel, which is magnetic, and which Canadians can tell from their nickels which are almost pure nickel, as opposed to US nickels.

Your link to Ruyun's patent app is a godsend. I had previously only seen the very early app with ultrasonic foggers and juice bags made out of silicone. The fact that a PIC 10F206 is used with a mosfet to switch the atomizer coil is exciting. I have been designing embedded PICs on MikroElectonika's development system for a couple years, now. It's a absolute breeze, compared to earlier embedded micros that I have dealt with. A little feedback from a thermistor at the coil, and the possibilities of absolute control of the atomizer is mind numbing.

Anyway, back to the metal foam, quoting Ruyun's patent- "

Liquid guide unit 705 is a multi-layer nickel foam web covering the exterior
side of connection bracket 706 and connection bracket holder 702. ..snip..​

The liquid guide unit 705 may also be made of stainless steel fibrofelt, high polymer foam and ceramic foam." Well, that doesn't pin it down completely, but exo should be able to nail it, soon. Of course, you have me completely betting on the nickel foam.

Thanks for all the expertise, everyone, I gotta go play with my PIC, now.