A question of misinformation...

[FDiskCuresAll]

One of the things I ran into while I was researching the benefits of vaping was a ton of negative theories and ideas regarding the use of e-cigs. Many of these ideas have been totally debunked thorough just a little bit of research, and from lurking and listening to most people here.

It really made me sit back and wonder: How much of this misinformation that is out there is put out there by the big tobacco companies to keep the customers they have, and discourage them from quitting? How big of an impact do you think this misinformation has had on the vaping movement? I call it that because you'd honestly think that anyone who smokes would want to vape instead, or rather, it would seem to make more sense. It's cheaper in the long run, and you're not poisoning yourself with a ton of chemicals that serve no purpose other than to poison you. Now I'm not one to cram my ideals down someone else's gullet, so it's not like I'm preaching from the rooftops to the analog smokers that they need to change, but I am educating them on the benefits that I'm experiencing, and letting them do their own math....it seems to be taking hold slowly..but those negative connotations are out there, and they are a tough barrier to break down..

Just a random thought I had...discuss!

 

[MrNate]

Well, considering the whole industry is one David vs. 3 Goliaths, I'm frankly amazed that the whole concept hasn't simply been brushed out of existence. I think to a certain degree, the fact that it's of Chinese origin helped in this regard due to our "special" relationship with China.

Think about it. E-cigs are a direct financial threat to:
- Big Tobacco, which has enough money, power, and unscrupulous nature to do exactly what you suggest.
- Big Pharma, which has enough money, power, and unscrupulous nature to do exactly what you suggest.
- Big Government, which has enough money, power, and unscrupulous nature to do exactly what you suggest.

Tobacco/Nicotine is such a goldmine of a cash crop for these giants, I honestly can't understand how e-cigs exist at all.

 

[legacygone]

Some good points.

One things I would add is that it seems ecig users and popularity is ready to grow exponentially. Once this happens (maybe another year or 2) I can see these things changing.

However, this may mean we will have to pay taxes!

Just a thought....

 

[Jessara]

Although I'm not a huge "conspiracy theorist", I would be naive if I thought Big Tobacco/Pharma and the Gov't didn't want their piece of the pie. I also think that e-cigs (pvs) are spreading like wildfire *across the globe* and that "pie" is going to be getting bigger and bigger.

What I see happening:

1. The FDA will manage to have liquid nicotine deemed a "controlled substance" that will only be available via prescription. BT (big tobacco) will be the strongest lobbyists for this.
2. BP (Big Pharma) will begin mass-producing liquid nicotine.
3. The Gov't will place hearty taxes on liquid nicotine.
4. State/County legislations will enact "No Vaping Where Prohibited" laws.
5. Within 8 years there will be "No Dripping While Driving" laws.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[WomanOfHeart]

There's also a lot of misinformation put out there by people who aren't necessarily associated the Big 3. They're just anti-smoking people, some with advanced degrees who can't be bothered with the facts because their minds are made up. I commented on one article last night where the author had written that there's smoke and not vapor in e-cigs. Some of the things people come up with is nothing less than ridiculous. In my world 1+1 still equals 2 and liquid + heat equals vapor, but apparently this isn't true in their world.

OMG, FDisk. I get a kick out of your SN, but is that a Whammy in your avatar? Hilarious!

 

[Bootsand]

It may be a little harder for the government to get a piece of that pie, though. Consider the bags of tobacco currently sold for rolling your own... sold as 'pipe tobacco', it is excempt from cigarette tax and can create a carton for approx. 8 bucks. This is not widely done due to the convenience of cigarettes, but if you can imagine attempting to tax e-cig liquid... DIY is so ridiculously easy that taxing premade juice (if sold in stores) would simply have people making their own with ease.

If I were the government looking to tax this industry, I wouldn't know where to begin. I think it will be far easier for them to ban/kill this movement as quick as possible and keep raking in the dough they already are from cigarettes.

I've already read so many false reports of how unhealthy e-cigs are compared to regular tobacco. It's ridiculous. We're certainly in for some serious opposition as there are a lot of forces that could lose a LOT of money. I'm going to keep educating anyone I meet that has the slightest interest in the subject and hope for the best... I have stocked up enough juice to last a year, though, just in case...

 

[banjo]

The big hitter in this is big tobacco. I just read that $100,000,000 is being spent annually on eCigs and related hardware & juice, and that the number of dollars being spent is growing at a very rapid rate with an additional 20,000+ people a month taking up vaping as an alternative to smoking. If the FDA and other government & NGO organizations are entering into the fray, I would suggest that it is because of the influence & money that big tobacco has and is willing to use to push their agenda. They are the ones that have the most to lose or gain in this battle. And, when you see state, county, or city governments taking stands on this issue, you will find big tobacco lobbyists pulling the strings on the puppets we elect to protect our rights as citizens.

 

[FDiskCuresAll]

OMG, FDisk. I get a kick out of your SN, but is that a Whammy in your avatar? Hilarious!

You are absolutely correct, that is a Whammy. Press Your Luck has always been one of my favorite game shows, so the Whammy avatar is just natural

 

[JupiterV]

If big tobacco had any sense at all, they'd be developing their own PV's and liquids and selling them everywhere cigarettes are sold. THEN watch how wonderful the reviews get and the FDA good seal of approval.

 

[Natalia]

If big tobacco had any sense at all, they'd be developing their own PV's and liquids and selling them everywhere cigarettes are sold. THEN watch how wonderful the reviews get and the FDA good seal of approval.

I hope not, but I agree. I think this is what will happen, and they'll sell it for the same price they get now from analogs, and it will be taxed as analogs.
Shoot, a prescription for a Nic inhaler to help me quit cost me 78.00! It was not covered under my insurance.

 

[MrNate]

The big hitter in this is big tobacco. I just read that $100,000,000 is being spent annually on eCigs and related hardware & juice, and that the number of dollars being spent is growing at a very rapid rate with an additional 20,000+ people a month taking up vaping as an alternative to smoking. If the FDA and other government & NGO organizations are entering into the fray, I would suggest that it is because of the influence & money that big tobacco has and is willing to use to push their agenda. They are the ones that have the most to lose or gain in this battle. And, when you see state, county, or city governments taking stands on this issue, you will find big tobacco lobbyists pulling the strings on the puppets we elect to protect our rights as citizens.

I don't know that I agree with this 100%. Big tobacco could lose the cigarette market and enter into the e-cig market. Or they could lose it all to big pharma, who could sweep up 100% of the e-cig market with the stroke of a pen.

Government loses least if big tobacco remains in control, loses more if big pharma steps in, and loses all if e-cigs remain unregulated and independant.

 

[MrNate]

You are absolutely correct, that is a Whammy. Press Your Luck has always been one of my favorite game shows, so the Whammy avatar is just natural

Ah, that's what it is! It looked familiar but I couldn't quite place it.

 

[Jessara]

I hope not, but I agree. I think this is what will happen, and they'll sell it for the same price they get now from analogs, and it will be taxed as analogs.
Shoot, a prescription for a Nic inhaler to help me quit cost me 78.00! It was not covered under my insurance.

The fact that a prescription is required to get a Nic Inhaler is exactly why I said I foresee liquid nicotine becoming a by-prescription-only product. PV's are pretty much the same thing, just a different design and slightly different delivery system.

 

[Rhapsodies Fire]

If big tobacco had any sense at all, they'd be developing their own PV's and liquids and selling them everywhere cigarettes are sold. THEN watch how wonderful the reviews get and the FDA good seal of approval.

I can't find the reference at the moment, but I believe one of the big three has been working on their own ecig system since last summer or fall. I'll see if I can find it and post here.

*edit.... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-tobacco-containing-electronic-cigarette.html
after searching big tobacco, patent, and e-cig...there is a whole lotta stuff going on with them and has been for years. They will most likely be major contendors soon. Which leads me to believe that big tobacco is probably not what I would worry about since either way, they'll make money off of us regardless if we're smoking or vaping. My conspiracy theorist inside me is more concerned about the government being behind the misinformation.

 

[waterbaby]

Couple of interesting paragraphs in the Patent application:

[0010]Smoking articles that employ tobacco substitute materials and smoking articles that employ sources of heat other than burning tobacco cut filler to produce tobacco-flavored vapors or tobacco-flavored visible aerosols have not received widespread commercial success. Thus, it would be highly desirable to provide a smoking article that provides a smoker with an ability to enjoy using tobacco without the necessity of burning any significant amount of tobacco. In particular, it would be highly desirable to provide a tobacco-containing smoking article, such as an article having the general appearance of a cigarette, cigar, or pipe, that possesses the ability to provide to a smoker many of the benefits and advantages of conventional tobacco smoking without necessarily delivering considerable quantities of incomplete combustion and pyrolysis products.

"have not received widespread commercial success." ??? Baloney.

[0065]The substrate material also can be treated with tobacco additives of the type that are traditionally used for the manufacture of cigarettes, such as casing and/or top dressing components. The substrate material optionally can be ammoniated (e.g., by treatment with anhydrous ammonia, aqueous ammonium hydroxide, or ammonium salts such as diammonium phosphate). Alternatively those materials can be absent, or virtually absent, of any type of added ammonia (e.g., whether by treatment with anhydrous ammonia, aqueous ammonium hydroxide, or ammonium salts such as diammonium phosphate). Those materials also can be treated with other additives, such as potassium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate. Other materials, such as catalytic agents, nanoparticle compositions, and the like, also can be incorporated within any of the smokable materials of the smokable rod. See, for example, the types of components set forth in US Pat. Publication 2004/0173229 to Crooks et al. Preferably, the material is not treated with more that about 10 percent of any of those types of additive agents other than aerosol-forming materials, based on the dry weight of tobacco material within that substrate material.

Just puttin' all the dangerous crap back into our bodies that analogs did, IMO.

 

[throatkick]

Tobacco/Nicotine is such a goldmine of a cash crop for these giants, I honestly can't understand how e-cigs exist at all.

It is very simple: The Internet.

This has raised the collective human consciousness to a level never before possible and perhaps higher than imagined.
For the average Joe, what once seemed unimaginable today is doable. What was once dark, is quickly emerging into the light. It highlights what can be done in the spirit of cooperation as opposed to division. It allows the vast majority of people with good intentions to have a say while demanding answers from those in the corridors of privilege based on previously unknown misconception and misdirection.

 

[epiphany]

In economic theory there is a term called economic profit. When an industry is experiencing economic profit others find it profitable to switch into that industry. The government has put so many taxes on tobacco that it appears there is economic profit in the tobacco industry.therefore, there is money to be made in an unregulated, untaxed industry(ecigs) that provides the same services to the consumer. The law of supply and demand dictates that when demand decreases, prices go up; when demand goes up, prices go down (this is why ecigs dont cost $200 for a 401-kit anymore). As individuals switch from tobacco to ecigs, the scales start tipping. History tells us that the government will either tax or ban a profitable product so something is going to happen as vaping gains momentum and widespread use. Our best defense is to start calling our legislatures now and telling them to vote no on any ecig legislation or taxes. The # to congress is (202) 224-3121.

 

[Visinedrops]

It's all about control. If you can consistently bring in revenue off of someone's unfortunate decision, someone is going to profit from it. Since the inception of the design of cigarettes, people have been doing things to tobacco to make the nicotine more addictive and/or quicker to absorb. Originally, cigarettes were created by the poor masses that would scrape up the droppings of tobacco in the snus shops, roll it up in paper and smoke it...because snus was too expensive. Over time, cigarettes grew in popularity, and if something is popular, the government is going to want to regulate it.

Same can be said with our PV's. A law has been passed (or is in limbo, can't remember right now) that PV's are to be used in the same manner as a regular cigarette...e.g, you can't use it in places that restrict smoking.

More and more of these regulations will creep up on us, just like every other law that has been passed, and we will eventually need to take out a second mortgage on our homes to pay for the medical bills incurred by having a doctor prescribe us a cartridge of flavorless nicotine replacement. We can't stand up and fight these laws, because the only thing those in charge understand is money. More money, more influence; more influence...well, have you looked at your wallet lately?

In a nutshell, whatever you feel makes you happy will eventually be made either illegal or taxed to a point you can't afford it anymore.

 

[tresrottn]

This will be the first of two posts...I saw two totally different animals I wanted to comment on.

For the OP. without going in the "big tobacco" conspiracy theory, these things just don't enjoy a "whole lot of attention" by the general public *yet* There is a LOT of ignorance out there and it really is us that the responsibility falls upon (yes, all us plain ole vapers) to educate.

for example,
One of my pals posted on FB, "So, what's with the e-cig things?" Asking a general question to everyone (he didn't know I am a vaper)
One of the responses was "they don't even contain nicotine, may as well just quit smoking"

How fast I was to jump in and educate! how much BETTER my life is, with NONE of the withdrawal, the weight gain, the agony of cravings (y'all know what I mean) It was a brilliant chance to let all my pals know THERE IS A CHOICE NOW!

 

[tresrottn]

My responses are in bold

Couple of interesting paragraphs in the Patent application:

[0010]Smoking articles that employ tobacco substitute materials and smoking articles that employ sources of heat other than burning tobacco cut filler to produce tobacco-flavored vapors or tobacco-flavored visible aerosols have not received widespread commercial success.

"have not received widespread commercial success." ??? Baloney.

Actually, they are 100% correct, when they are referring to their previous failed attempts at creating an "electronic cigarette" Every one of them have gone down in their pseudo flames. They were poorly designed, and they were trying to "make a real cigarette" rather than a personal vaporiser. Thank God for the Chinese.

In particular, it would be highly desirable to provide a tobacco-containing smoking article, such as an article having the general appearance of a cigarette, cigar, or pipe, that possesses the ability to provide to a smoker many of the benefits and advantages of conventional tobacco smoking without necessarily delivering considerable quantities of incomplete combustion and pyrolysis products.

Sorry, I had to get up from the floor.....I was laughing too hard and slipped in my own tears. I have yet to EVER find one single stinking "benefit" to smoking. EVER.. Anyone have any ideas? benefits or advantages to smoking? Anyone? bueller? Bueller?

[0065] The substrate material optionally can be ammoniated (e.g., by treatment with anhydrous ammonia, aqueous ammonium hydroxide, or ammonium salts such as diammonium phosphate). Alternatively those materials can be absent, or virtually absent, of any type of added ammonia (e.g., whether by treatment with anhydrous ammonia, aqueous ammonium hydroxide, or ammonium salts such as diammonium phosphate). Those materials also can be treated with other additives, such as potassium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate. Other materials, such as catalytic agents, nanoparticle compositions, and the like, also can be incorporated within any of the smokable materials of the smokable rod.

This scares me more than anything I have ever seen. They quite literally want to kill us. Why can't we charge them as premeditated murderers? I know, I wax dramatic.....but damn! REALLY??? THEY WANT TO MAKE A PRODUCT WITH AMMONIA IN AND/OR WASHED IN FOR US TO INHALE