A vaping newbie's torment...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shadow102

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 19, 2011
344
123
Eastern Panhandle, WV
Ok checkmate, I'm going to throw a bunch of science at you; hopefully I will be able to convey the information well enough in layman's terms, and not be too textbook about it all. Then I'm going to ask you a few questions.

Sciencey stuff:

You are correct when you said you're feeling an addiction to something other than nicotine.

Nicotine itself does a wonderful job of increasing the production of chemical transmitters within our body; notable ones include:

acetylcholine (enhances concentration/memory/alertness, decreases pain receptors)
norepinephrine (increases arousal, enhances alertness)
epinephrine (also known as adrenaline, increases alertness, decrease reaction times)
dopamine (increases sensitivity of the brain reward system, basically its one of the neurotransmitters responsible for us knowing when to feel good)
beta-endorphin (reduces anxiety, decreases pain receptors)
serotonin (another reward system neurotransmitter, has a calming effect, one of the neurotransmitters that allow us to sleep)

Now our bodies have a very efficient way of breaking down and regulating all of these wonderful chemicals, a process called oxidation where an oxygen molecule is used to break them down into base molecules and flush them from our system. A group of enzymes call monoamine oxidases (MAO's) are responsible for catalyzing this reaction.

However, tobacco contains along with its wonderful nicotine a group of chemicals called monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI's.) You may have heard them referred to in certain prescription drug commercials, commonly ones associated with anti-depressants. MAOI's inhibit the production of the enzymes responsible for breaking down all those wonderful chemicals that nicotine stirred up, essentially making the effects associated with them last longer.

Now we not only have the "feel good" chemicals being produced at an increasing rate by the nicotine, but we also have them hanging around longer than normal due to the MAOI's. It's a recipe for addiction that has kept BT in business for over a hundred years.

Now, since you aren't getting the MAOI's through vaping, you no longer have that extended duration of all those "feel good" chemicals, which is why it is common for us to vape more frequently than we smoked. This could also be the underlying cause of many of us experiencing detox and withdrawal symptoms even though we are still intaking nicotine.

Now for the question part:

You mentioned feeling sick when you vape. Is this a nauseousness kind of sick, or more of a lightheaded/kinda drunk and woozy sick?

What type of juice blend are you vaping? Do you feel these symptoms only when vaping or do you get them after you've smoked as well?

The reason I ask is because depending on the symptoms it could be either case of nic overdose (that's the woozy/lightheaded one) or it could be a reaction to the hygroscopic agents, the PG or VG, in the juice (that's the nauseous one.)


Hopefully this helps you better understand why you're still craving analogs and will help you make the switch easier.

Cheers and Happy Vaping,

Shadow
 
^^^What Shadow said.

There are some people that nic alone will not satisfy. I am one of them. (depression, anxiety, loss of concentration) This has been discussed here on the forums for over two years. See the thread "Nicotine..are we getting it?" Looong thread, over 270 posts, but good read. I'm going to shoot myself in the foot here and increase the competition, BUT, there is an ECF approved vendor now offering a juice (on a LIMITED basis) with those other alkaloids (MOAIs). It's WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloids) juice and it works very well. You should be able to cut your mgs and get a good nights sleep. This stuff is NOT for everyone, only those who have tried for months, tried various types of equipment, different mgs, and still can't get off the analogs. HTH
 

vafromnc

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 22, 2011
218
119
62
North Carolina
We have these troubles with vaping because vaping doesn't try to cover it's tracks like analogs do. Analogs deaden our tastebuds then tell us that the combustion we're taking in tastes good. That's why so many chemicals had to be added to the tobacco in cigarettes. It's like it camouflages itself. Vaping is honest and lets your body heal, with the ups and downs. Analogs lie, vaping lets your body tell you the truth.
 

checkmate

Full Member
Jun 11, 2009
12
1
46
Wow... I don't know what to say except a huge THANKS to each and every one of you! The other day when I started this thread, I was really sooo down... and perhaps wrote the whole thing more as a lamentation than a cry for help... I did wish for help, but I honestly didn't expect so many people literally rushing in to assist me. THANK YOU GUYS/GALS!! :)

@Hoosier
Do not worry about "coming off as a raging ......" :) I certainly didn't ask for pampering (well, not only, at least :D) so I appreciate your approach too, as sometimes a good kick in the rear is the best way to get someone going. Besides, you were not too harsh, just honest - and that is exactly what I needed. Thanks mate!

@Shadow102
Yes, I am sort of familiar with the MAOIs - plenty of threads about that stuff here, with people mentioning substitutes (SNUS etc.) to supplement those tobacco ingredients that vaping alone cannot provide. However, SNUS cannot be purchased in my country and I am not even sure if it can be legally imported, so I guess I'll just stick to some more vaping, at least for now... hoping that the addiction to the other stuff will go away. As for the nausea that I had mentioned... Well, it was sort of a light-headed-heart-pounding-I-feel-like-exploding sensation... And it occurred only when I exaggerated with the vaping (on THE day) and on the subsequent days, when I combined vaping and analogs... But as I decided to back off vaping for a while and revert to analogs until I "consolidate", it went away. The stuff I vape is a 50/50 mix, and I vape a bit now as well (although I'm sticking to analogs for most of the day), but no nauseous feeling unless I exaggerate again. And oh, I forgot - since I reverted to analogs, I also switched the occasional vape to 12mg instead of the original 24mg, and while it definitely brought me less throat hit, it also definitely took away the nausea... So my only conclusion from the whole treatise is that I had simply overdosed on nic and that it is that OD that caused the nausea. And I am sticking to 12-16mg maximum, it seems to be my comfort zone.

I ordered some 0mg RY4 juice to dilute the 24mg that I have at home... and I am soooo looking forward to it, as I REALLY like the taste... I am desperately hoping that it'll help me leave analogs... the USA Mix is a nice flavor, but it is still a bit too light for me, especially in those "smoker-specific moments" (after a meal, with coffee etc). As for trying other flavors - as several of you had suggested - I appreciate the suggestion, but the choice on my domestic market is sorely unimpressive, importing exotic stuff costs time and money, and like I mentioned, I already have a bunch of unwanted juice that I don't know what to do with. Plus, to be perfectly honest, I can't even imagine myself trying to inhale, say, 16mg of bacon - not that I don't like bacon, or nic, but the combination of the two is rather unappealing to me... same goes for most of the other food-flavored stuff. So I'm pinning my hopes to the RY4 for now... and if that doesn't work, then I'll consider some desperate measures. :)

Once again, a huge THANK YOU ALL... I'll be sure to keep in touch once I get all the ammo that (I think) I need... hopefully with some good news, as is appropriate to start a new year with. :)
 
Last edited:

stephpd

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 24, 2011
425
199
Delaware
For someone that smoke 'light 100's' 24mg may be more then you're use to. I smoked (just finally quit a few days ago) regular Marlboro's and hit them hard. For me 24 mg wasn't even enough, though 36 mg certainly was for the cravings. The dizziness and nausea was from taking in more nicotine then you're use to. But 1.5 ml of 24mg isn't much more then maybe 1 1/2 packs of 'regular' cigs.

Plenty of folks here vaping far more then that. Average for this forum runs ~3 ml. Some far more then that but probably at lower levels of nicotine.

To keep the nausea to a minimum just lower the nicotine level of the liquid, which I see you're going to try. The cravings will eventually reside and don't feel too bad about having an occasional cig. I've been at this for close to a month and finally got rid of the analogs. I'd have 3-4 a day when the cravings came and vaping just fell short of satisfying. But that was far better then 1 1/2 packs so to me it was progress.

Just last weekend I went to a Christmas party, drinking involved, which always makes me smoke more and didn't have a single analog. Not even a craving though I did vape, explained to anyone that cared about them and nobody had a problem with it. Didn't even vape heavily.

Just give it a chance. Find what works best for you and don't feel bad if you occasionally have an analog. It won't be long before you get your sense of taste and smell back and find analogs pretty disgusting and just stop using them. I've tried all the other cessation methods and feel this is the first one that'll probably work for me. Eventually I'll be cutting back on the nicotine levels too. Just getting through the holiday season without having another analog will be a major success for me, but I'm confident it'll work.
 

voiceinthecosmos

Full Member
Verified Member
Dec 10, 2011
26
24
United States
I am also not new to vaping, but I am new to ecf (as a member, that is). I have lurked and read for ages. I had the same problems that you are having. I am also a nurse, and I know first hand just how much damage analogs can cause. I used to work hospice, and one of my favorite patients was the same age as I am. He had lung cancer. By the time he died, I could lift him in my arms like an infant. (I am NOT a large woman). That was the first thing that made me try vaping. (Up to that point, I had smoked 2 - 3 packs of marlboro a day for 30 years.) I started with some cheap e-cig I got in a local "stop-and-rob." It was awful. It tasted worse than dirt, but where I live, I was luck to find that. I tried to stick with the nasty cheap e-cigs, but I just couldn't do it. Then, I wound up with a pretty severe case of pneumonia. Even though I was so sick that I could not stand, I could not shake the cravings. There I was on oxygen, IV in my arm, and I was turning off the oxygen so that I could smoke. (That's just plain pitiful, but it's the truth.) After I recovered, I just put myself into a state of denial and continued to smoke. That is, UNTIL I got pneumonia again. The next time I got pneumonia, I missed a month of work. That's when I decided to try vaping again. That time, I found some disposable blu e-cigs. Now, I know a lot of people hate Blu. They talk about how nasty Blus are, etc..., but the Blu e-cigs were light years better than the el cheapos I had tried up to that point. I managed to stop analogs completely which was a HUGE deal for me. The only problem is that the disposable Blus were 8 bucks each, and I was going through 3 of them a day! I wound up buying a joye ego and some various tobacco flavored juices. I bought them in 36 mg. The problem is, since I was missing smoking so much, I vaped nearly continuously and would wind up dizzy and nauseous. I had read about the MAOIs, and decided to ask my doctor to write me an antidepressant. (But NOT an MAOI because they are seriously a bad idea unless no other antidepressant works for you. They are simply a LAST choice in my book.) I also bought some 0 mg to cut the juice with. I found that if I cut it down to 12 mg I can vape all day without getting dizzy and nauseous at all. I am going through 6 mL a day minimum, but I CAN BREATHE! I can smell and taste again. The most recent lung function studies I had showed a significant improvement. Now, to top off everything else I have told you, I have asthma. I've had it my whole life. Now, why the heck would an asthmatic EVER start smoking? Lots of other nurses and lots of doctors have asked me that question. I really can't answer it, but what I do know is that whatever the reason was that I started smoking, I was INSTANTLY addicted, and no asthma attack, no bronchitis, no pneumonia, no warnings were going to get me to stop BECAUSE I COULD NOT! Getting off analogs is the hardest thing I have ever done. The patches, gum, and inhaler are all worthless as far as I am concerned. The only thing that has worked is the combination of the antidepressant and vaping. Vaping has saved my life, and even though it has been a lot of work to make it work, I am so grateful that there is some option available to me that will work. I truly hope diluting your juice works for you like it did for me. If it doesn't do the trick, the only thing I can say is: please just keep trying different options until you manage to make something work. :)
 

voiceinthecosmos

Full Member
Verified Member
Dec 10, 2011
26
24
United States
Thanks Lilac. The ECF is wonderful because it helps all of us know that we are not alone in this struggle. Sometimes it's hard to open up and tell people your story, but since other people being willing to share their stories is what helped me to hang in there when things got rough, I felt that it would not be fair of me not to do the same for others. Being a nurse and an asthmatic, I am made to feel ashamed by my co-workers about the fact that I was addicted to analogs which has made it even harder for me to open up and share with others, but if vaping could get me off of analogs as addicted as I was, it can do it for anyone.
 

Huffelpuff

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 27, 2011
3,760
3,153
Philadelphia Burbs
I started off at 24 mg and I swear that I rarely slept for about 3 months. Tried to reduce to 18 but found myself chain vaping and dissatisfied. Now at 4+ months I am still vaping 24mg but have sort of slowed down the frequency of vaping when I feel like I've had enough (that happens now finally).

The insomnia, for me, was terrible but the reward of not needing to smoke was worth it. I learned to drink tons of water and to try to vape lighter at night and am sleeping great now. I've kind of reached the other end of the spectrum and am sleeping better than I ever have.

My cravings were situational- mainly associated with times that I associated w/ smoking. I tried to vape a bit heavier during those times. I also found that changing my PV helped. 3.7 didn't cut it at all for me and I found that I'm more of a 5v person.

Good luck and try not to beat yourself up. Try new juices, equipment and approaches till you get it right. It'll pass and you'll be glad you did it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread