A world of knock offs

[mrelwood]

wow, I thought the ego's were 3.7v...? I don't have a votage reader, so I was just going on what i'd read about them.

My joyetech eGo-C battery measures 3.6V on load. The original eGos are 3.3V I think.

Chinese relate very differently to trademarks from us westerns, so I think they just consider the eGo as the style, not the certain product from the original developer. So that's what the term eGo has come to mean. "eGo threaded" etc.

So the argument turned to what is a knock-off and what is a counterfeit. The KGO is clearly and recognizably a different product than the eGo battery, even if they do serve the same basic purpose, so I don't think anyone could blame them on a fradulent product or marketing. That's not the case with OP's fake eGo.

 

[pericat]

I have eGo-style PVs; got a kit and that was what was in it. I didn't have a context for noting that at first, that is, I didn't know what a joyetech eGo would look like, or a licensed distributor's eGo. But I was troubled by the printing errors in the manual. It looks just like it was OCR scanned using dirty plates and wild guesses. A close reading confirmed that there's no real manufacturer name on any of it. Heaven only knows which company made these PVs.

They seem to work just fine. They don't get even warm on the charger, much less hot. They charge up in a couple of hours when hooked to my Mac, though on the wall plug it is more like a trickle charge, taking some 10 hours. I can use one for around ten hours also. The 5-click lock is functional. There's nothing actually wrong with them, in other words.

So far. But the thing about a no-name manufacturer is this: if a problem develops, the warranty is not worth the paper it's been scanned onto.

I probably won't bother saying anything to the seller; not like "Joyetech" appears anywhere on his website. I doubt I'll buy any more hardware from him, though. My plan is to save my pennies till next month, and send off for a Vivi Nova and something to power it. Haven't decided what.

 

[meli.]

Thanks, sweets. I hope life is treating you well.
I wanted to tell you there is another lady here on ECF named Orobas and she makes zebras to sell on SL. You two should hook up and troll.

ShogaNinja, that is a very rude and ill mannered statement!!
NancyR is actually participating in this thread and therefore able to respond to your attack! Orobas is not!
You have no reason what's so ever to draw other members into a thread that has nothing do with them and therefore Not defend themselves!
Seriously UNCOOL!

 

[ShogaNinja]

^ Yeah that. The thing is a disposable battery, will only charge about 250 times. Why pay more when they are basically all the same? It isn't as if you are going to own it for a long time.

You can find that information on battery university. "In our test, the expected capacity loss of Li-ion batteries was uniform over the 250 cycles and the batteries performed as expected."

That's where you got that number. In fact the Depth of Discharge (DoD) is the main factor that controls that number. If you drain your battery all the way, and then recharge it, it is far worse than just giving it a boost every once in a while (which can result in you getting away with thousands of mini charges before significant capacity loss):

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

The KGO manual recommends 300 charges before you replace it (because at full depth of discharge the battery will lose 30% capacity at that point). If you look at the table you will see that 300 is the minimum number of maximum depth of discharges that can be performed before the capacity is 70% of its starting capacity. In other words SLB is being conservative for their own ends because they want you to buy more batteries from them. Plus they have an obligation to scare the crap out of people that their overcharge protection circuit will fail over that time.

But you don't have to listen to me, after all, I'm just a lowly PV Master who gives bad advice.

It WAS you who said I give bad advice right? And then here you are doing it?

People are fallible and we all have our own opinions. Remember that. I'm going to go ahead and forgive you though. Now off with you. I truly hope you have the most fantastic of days.

 

[ShogaNinja]

ShogaNinja, that is a very rude and ill mannered statement!!
NancyR is actually participating in this thread and therefore able to respond to your attack! Orobas is not!
You have no reason what's so ever to draw other members into a thread that has nothing do with them and therefore Not defend themselves!
Seriously UNCOOL!

What are you talking about?
If you look at my profile you will see that me and NancyR are friends and frequently correspond via PM. She doesn't mind that I called her "sweets", do you Nancy? Orobas is also a friend of mine although I don't remember if I added her yet to my list.

SL = SecondLife, a massively multiplayer online game where you can make stuff and sell it for real money, something NancyR and Orobas have very much in common. One of the things you do for fun on that game is mess with people (commonly referred to as trolling), a joyful activity.

There were no insults occurring here. Thanks for the concern. If anything I was rude for going off-topic, but that's a minor crime. I will survive that. The misunderstanding here is yours. I wish you the best and I hope this message clears that up for everyone, yourself included.

Now please let's get back on task here without further interruption.

 

[ShogaNinja]

Thanks again ShogaNinja
Considering not that long ago i read you saying something else, i appreciate your honesty.
I'm very happy with my Joyetech batteries, day 95 and no problems.
As most people, i come here to learn, and if possible, help.

Well we learn something new every day, and unfortunately this time I put my money where my mouth was and got burned. I thought I'd correct my previous statements (which were 90% true) that knockoffs were made of the same stuff. It's the important things that count, like the voltage potentiometer, and I see that now. You can have the same battery but if you can't interface it you're pretty screwed.

 

[ShogaNinja]

Actually I set the BB up for sis to use, I am strictly using the iHybrid now. And hey I don't troll SL too many wackos, not to mention enough to keep busy there between building and scripting

You should still check out Orobas. Maybe you guys can trade tips. She's all about her zebra sales. They look pretty good too!
Yeah that iHybrid you won. How do you like it? How's it treating you? (feel free to PM this to me so we don't derail this thread)

 

[ShogaNinja]

I have eGo-style PVs; got a kit and that was what was in it. I didn't have a context for noting that at first, that is, I didn't know what a Joyetech eGo would look like, or a licensed distributor's eGo. But I was troubled by the printing errors in the manual. It looks just like it was OCR scanned using dirty plates and wild guesses. A close reading confirmed that there's no real manufacturer name on any of it. Heaven only knows which company made these PVs.

They seem to work just fine. They don't get even warm on the charger, much less hot. They charge up in a couple of hours when hooked to my Mac, though on the wall plug it is more like a trickle charge, taking some 10 hours. I can use one for around ten hours also. The 5-click lock is functional. There's nothing actually wrong with them, in other words.

So far. But the thing about a no-name manufacturer is this: if a problem develops, the warranty is not worth the paper it's been scanned onto.

I probably won't bother saying anything to the seller; not like "Joyetech" appears anywhere on his website. I doubt I'll buy any more hardware from him, though. My plan is to save my pennies till next month, and send off for a Vivi Nova and something to power it. Haven't decided what.

I wish you luck on your quest.

Now I will paint you all a picture of China, and the ecig business in America:

I have a buddy from China and they spend their days knocking things off and trying to outsell each other. A brand name to them is a means to an end. They are all about outproducing and outselling, and they don't care about their name because they are doing it under a pseudonym and without repercussions. Forgery is apparently a point of national pride. They obviously have very different laws than we do.

Worst example of forgery from China:
He bought a 50 pack of CD-Rs (blank recordable CDs) and they were fakes. They went to the trouble of copying the label on the packaging, making a plastic spindle with 50 perfect replicas of blank CDs on it and 0 of them worked just to make a few extra bucks over making REAL CDs. Now that's a knockoff! This is the monster we are dealing with when it comes to China, the creator of the modern ecig. Caveat Emptor. "Let the buyer beware".

Now I ask that you not necessarily blame the vendor for any problems you might have with their products. You are free to change vendors at will, but every vendor that deals with China will eventually get burned by this fact.

The hard part for them is that they take a chance and order these items, sight unseen (which have a minimum # of items to purchase in most cases), wait weeks for them to be delivered by boat, and their money tied up for a long time (and often extra money is held reserve on their credit card in order to do a deal - it's complicated) and then they finally get the product.

They sell some, and some come back under warranty. They have to pay shipping to send them back to China (and wait weeks - further money is tied up again - shipping costs are paid) give the customer a replacement (further lowering their stock and hastening their next deal with China) and then they learn their lesson. Well, maybe. No matter how many lessons are learned each new item they bring in is a chance that is taken. The ecig business is a very very unforgiving business. Most people don't realize what it is like dealing with China and that is why I paint this picture. The worst failure rate (within the warranty, that is (after the warranty is up people usually blame the vendor and no data is given on this outside of complaints on ECF and the like which are not easily quantified or verified)) on a Chinese product I have ever witnessed is 13%. So imagine buying 300 of those and sending 39 back and calming down 39 angry customers. Doesn't sound like a fun time, does it?

 

[sonicdsl]

I've been wanting to try KGO batteries. Can anyone tell me if i can charge them with my Joyetech chargers?

I'd be careful - only because I've read in several threads over the last year that it's best to use the charger supplied by the manufacturer, whether it actually fits or not, to help avoid issues.

DiscountVapers.com has the best deal on legitimate Joyetech eGo C Twist replacement batteries right now.
If any of you are considering getting one (I think all vapers should have a Twist in their arsenal) just realize that your old charger (if it's a 510 usb (with our without wall plug adapter)) may be compatible. To verify this look on the label where you screw in the battery. If the output is 4.2v 420mA you are good to go. I can 100% guarantee that it will be suitable. If it is any MORE than that number then you are playing with fire literally if you try to charge it with that. For the record, my KGO charger is exactly that and it works with my Twists.

Actually, his Twists are from Hello, not Joyetech, as he pointed out recently in his sub-forum. Also he's currently out of stock on all 4 styles he had. But from what people have been saying, they work great, which is probably why he's out!

eGo C Twist Variable Voltage Black

 

[ShogaNinja]

I'd be careful - only because I've read in several threads over the last year that it's best to use the charger supplied by the manufacturer, whether it actually fits or not, to help avoid issues.

There is a big myth going around that is fueled by ignorance in batteries. People fear the unknown. Before I attempted using a KGO charger on an eGo Twist I watched a buddy of mine go out and get the "official charger". I looked at it and it's the exact same as mine down to every last number and detail save one, the name brand. Sad part is, he already had that same charger that he also got with a KGO (we both started on KGOs). His name is Estarra and you can find this proof here on this video (please reference time index 5:22):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmUQnrCpQ_w please reference time index 5:22.

All you need is one of the commonly sold USB to 510 charger with an output of 4.2v and 420mA. There is no magic charger for the eGo Twist, all 4.2v lithium ion batteries are the same. Even lithium polymer batteries like the KGO VV can theoretically be charged with this charger as long as they are 4.2v (except that because it is a passthrough it uses a Mini USB so you don't need to. You should be able to charge it like a normal eGo anyway, but don't try this at home please (thx)). That's the numbers, and I have been using my KGO charger on my Twists for months, no venting, no fireworks, tyvm. That's my $1.

For the record mine says "Desan® USB Charger"
Input: DC 5v 500mA
Output: DC 4.2v 420mA
CE (house picture with an arrow pointing in from the right side bottom) and the double square picture. Just like Estarra's in the video. Mine has a wall adapter to USB in. The output of that adapter is the same as the input to the USB, but that is irrelevant because a solid computer will put out the same numbers as the input. Please note that all computer cases are not created equal and the frontpanel USB ports often do not consistently put out as high as the 5v, as claimed. If you have to charge from a desktop computer, use the back ports straight from the motherboard. BTW I am an IT professional. I recommend that if you do charge with USB only that you get a wall adapter. It's not worth the damage to your computer if there is a problem.

Note that the overcharge protection circuit is different for each battery and, for example with a KGO where the light flashes quickly, the light will flash at different rates as a result (red to green) of using different batteries with it. This is not a cause for concern. The eGo Twist flashes much slower than a KGO - about 1 time every 8 seconds.

Actually, his Twists are from Hello, not Joyetech, as he pointed out recently in his sub-forum. Also he's currently out of stock on all 4 styles he had. But from what people have been saying, they work great, which is probably why he's out!

eGo C Twist Variable Voltage Black

Just because he sold out doesn't make them great. It means they're cheaper than everyone else and a lot of people got caught up in a lie or misunderstanding.

He must have JUST changed that on the site then btw. Good thing I didn't order one.

he added this:

"Eric's Review:
Please know that I purchased these by mistake, I meant to order JoyE but must have had a brain freeze, hence the lower price. That said, everything I have ordered from HelloSmoke has been excellent. it seems to perform just as well and in the same manner.The quality seems just as good as JoyE, I do not think you will have any problems with this item"
^^^
Totally not cool that he was printing "genuine joyetech" on his site (but I will assume it was a mistake and not a lie that he was caught in). Caveat Emptor. Real JoyETechs are going for like $26 then, and that would be Altsmoke.com which does say "genuine joyetech" btw. Sweet-Vapes.com (not to be confused with sweetvapes.com (no dash, lawsuit btw?) has them too for a dollar more (or so).

It seems even Americans are knocking each other off). At this point there is no real way to tell a real from a fake anyway which just makes the picture I painted of China before so much more true. Although one quick way to spot an obvious knockoff is the lack of logo on the bottom of the battery (the twisty part) and the lack of the words "eGo C Twist" on the side of the battery. If they don't show both of these features in their picture on the site I would be quite wary. If you come to find that they aren't genuine, and they said they were, send them back. If they give you trouble call your credit card company. False advertisement isn't cool, in America anyway.

I'm going back to edit my post so people don't get screwed up. Thanks for pointing this out. /salute

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Thanks again ShogaNinja
Lots of good info, things i learned.
ALSO, the Joyetech batteries, and i'm confident mine are genuine, have a "CE" and what appears to be a "garbage can with a x imposed over it", etched on the top most metal ring by the air notches. This is on all 8 of my Joyetech batteries, no matter how they differ on the black rubber.....they say, ego-c twist, joyetech, ego-c.
The "CE" is , maybe , a certification?

 

[blue5]

China Export

 

[vsummer1]

You can find that information on battery university. "In our test, the expected capacity loss of Li-ion batteries was uniform over the 250 cycles and the batteries performed as expected."

That's where you got that number. In fact the Depth of Discharge (DoD) is the main factor that controls that number. If you drain your battery all the way, and then recharge it, it is far worse than just giving it a boost every once in a while (which can result in you getting away with thousands of mini charges before significant capacity loss):

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

The KGO manual recommends 300 charges before you replace it (because at full depth of discharge the battery will lose 30% capacity at that point). If you look at the table you will see that 300 is the minimum number of maximum depth of discharges that can be performed before the capacity is 70% of its starting capacity. In other words SLB is being conservative for their own ends because they want you to buy more batteries from them. Plus they have an obligation to scare the crap out of people that their overcharge protection circuit will fail over that time.

But you don't have to listen to me, after all, I'm just a lowly PV Master who gives bad advice.

It WAS you who said I give bad advice right? And then here you are doing it?

People are fallible and we all have our own opinions. Remember that. I'm going to go ahead and forgive you though. Now off with you. I truly hope you have the most fantastic of days.

HUH?
I think you have me confused with someone else, after all you were bashing quite a few people.

All I said was what you said? I don't even own, nor have I ever used, a KGO and did not give any advice etc. on a KGO t all?

And your PV Master status came to you by posting furiously on the contest for the tank page. How many now? Over 500 posts? I have about 300 myself, so it must be more.

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

China Export

Yes, that's what it should stand for. That's good.

 

[mrelwood]

The "CE" is , maybe , a certification?

Exactly, it is required for all items for sale in EEA (Europe).
CE marking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nothing to do with China or Export.

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Exactly, it is required for all items for sale in EEA (Europe).
CE marking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nothing to do with China or Export.

THANKS MRELWOOD, I did wonder, now i know.

 

[ShogaNinja]

Thanks again ShogaNinja
Lots of good info, things i learned.
ALSO, the Joyetech batteries, and i'm confident mine are genuine, have a "CE" and what appears to be a "garbage can with a x imposed over it", etched on the top most metal ring by the air notches. This is on all 8 of my Joyetech batteries, no matter how they differ on the black rubber.....they say, ego-c twist, joyetech, ego-c.
The "CE" is , maybe , a certification?

Conformité Européenne. It's French for European Conformity. I like China Export better though LOL.

Yeah I didn't mention that other marking because it would be hard to see in the tiny pictures that are posted on the vendors websites whereas the bright white lettering and the logo on the bottom of the battery are easy to spot and many fakes may have one but not the other. I suppose I should have mentioned it though (and I am glad you brought it up) because some people DO shop at brick and mortar stores and then they'd be able to check these things up close.

The Twist knockoff I have has no markings whatsoever. Just a white dot at the bottom lol. Other than the not twisting part it performs fine. I don't have a voltage meter to check it but using Ohm's Law and trying the different voltage settings (with a rubber gripper to turn it LOL) it checks out.

 

[<---cop]

You guys that are blaming china for ripping off people with counterfeits.....

The Vendors are the dodgy ones buying cheaper junk and selling it without clarifying it is a clone.

It isn't chinas fault. It is the vendors deceiving people!!!

 

[blue5]

http://www.ybw.com/expert-advice/vhf/news/509220/warning-don-t-get-confused-between-the-ce-mark-and-the-china-export-mark

CE close together is China Export.. C E is the Eurpoean one

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

 

[subsolanus]

Oh great. Knock-off compliance registration markings. How "coincidental".