Aclu?

[Superstargoddess]

I wouldn't give the ACLU the muck off of my shoes ...

School prayer charges stir protests

They are representitive everything that is messed up about the world today

Amen, that is the type of stuff that I am talking about with them. I know that some of you don't like that some of us are against them, but look at how negative they are in the press sometimes. Do any of you really want to associate with people like that?

It's like when you were in school, your parents didn't want you to hang around with the "bad kids" because then everyone would think that you were one too.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Amen, that is the type of stuff that I am talking about with them. I know that some of you don't like that some of us are against them, but look at how negative they are in the press sometimes. Do any of you really want to associate with people like that?

It's like when you were in school, your parents didn't want you to hang around with the "bad kids" because then everyone would think that you were one too.

Yeah, but we are the bad kids...

 

[sherid]

The ACLU, like all groups fighting to protect the freedoms of individuals, sometimes must defend people or ideas that are not popular with the majority. But, they fight anyway. It is a sacred principle of our Constitution and our judicial system even when the majority disagrees with the outcome.



“All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression.”
Thomas Jefferson




C. S. Lewis:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

 

[Mac]

It is a moot point. I called them and they didn't care. It is starting to feel like no one cares except for the people these things have helped, The people profitting from their sales and the occaisional rogue doctor who no one is listening to. We are outnumbered and outfinanced as well as overpowered politically. The fact that so many people think the aclu's position regarding the seperation of church and state has ANY relevance as to whether they should be ALLOWED to help us tells me that we are all screwed and will be back under BT BP and the FDA's EVIL thumb in no time. I am DONE with this thread.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

It is a moot point. I called them and they didn't care.

That tells you all you need to know about them I guess.
Now. If you were a school leaver, opposed to being approached by a Marine recruitment officer outside of a shopping mall, they would have been all over it like a rash
Their priorities are stuff that means absolutely FA in the grand scheme of things. A bunch of leftie losers.

 

[Superstargoddess]

The ACLU, like all groups fighting to protect the freedoms of individuals, sometimes must defend people or ideas that are not popular with the majority. But, they fight anyway. It is a sacred principle of our Constitution and our judicial system even when the majority disagrees with the outcome.



“All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression.”
Thomas Jefferson




C. S. Lewis:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

I know what you are saying, and I understand all of that. But it just seems that they should pick their battles or something, you know? I'm sure that sometimes they really do help good people with issues that need to be addressed. But sometimes you just hear about the craziest things that they are all up in arms about. Just makes me say "What in the hell is their problem?".

Mac- Please keep your head up sweetie! I hate to see you so depressed. We will all get through this one way or another. And I know that you have more to lose than most of us, but you will still find a way through it! I would say that any official decisions and actions are going to be a good while from now, so try not to worry yourself to death until then!

 

[sherid]

I know what you are saying, and I understand all of that. But it just seems that they should pick their battles or something, you know? I'm sure that sometimes they really do help good people with issues that need to be addressed. But sometimes you just hear about the craziest things that they are all up in arms about. Just makes me say "What in the hell is their problem?".

Mac- Please keep your head up sweetie! I hate to see you so depressed. We will all get through this one way or another. And I know that you have more to lose than most of us, but you will still find a way through it! I would say that any official decisions and actions are going to be a good while from now, so try not to worry yourself to death until then!

Who would judge what is the "right" battle and who the "good" people are?

 

[JustJulie]

Well, I'm pretty conservative.

And I applaud the ACLU. I don't get on board with all of their causes, but I appreciate and respect the organization's mission. The Constitution doesn't just protect popular causes, and it's less than worthless if it doesn't apply to the least of our society.

For example, I hate Nazis,the KKK, and all they stand for . . . and I hate it when they rally and march. But I agree 100% with the ACLU supporting and fighting for their right to peaceably assembly.

When the rights of the unpopular, unloved, and/or minorities are trampled, folks don't seem to care overly much . . . but then the precedent is set to come after everyone else.

In any event, if the ACLU were willing to help us, heck, I'd become a card-carrying member.

 

[Superstargoddess]

Who would judge what is the "right" battle and who the "good" people are?

I know, I know, it's a fine line and humans shouldn't be able to judge this type of thing. I totally understand what you are saying, I really do. But we all are, afterall, human. So as humans we are going to think these things and make these decisions for ourselves. I know that you understand what I mean even though you are giving me a hard time about it. You sound like a very intelligent person and I don't mean to disrespect you or anyone else at this forum that is for this idea. I'm just giving my opinion on what I think about them and what a lot of other people that I know think about them.

 

[Justncredible]

The ACLU is a left wing socialist group. The general government is obligated to secure the borders of this country and illegals do not have protections under the laws of this country. Ranchers on the border do have a right to defend thier land and propiety.

Tenth Amendment Center|Working to limit the power of the federal government

Under the 10th amendment the general government can not give themselves powers not outlined in the Constitution,,,, sadly tho, we have had a socialist surpreme court that legislates from the bench, they grant powers to the general government. Roe Vs Wade was the first hit.

As for politics on this board there is a "progressive vapors" group formed, and progressive is just another name for marxist. America has had "progressive" socialism since teddy rosevelt was elected over 100 years, America is far left, rush limbo is far left, geogre bush is far left, even the big bad neo cons are far left.

The ACLU will not fight 10th and/or most 4th amendment cases, but they will fight to take your propiety rights, or your choice to pray in school away, they will even fight to remove a Christmas tree, so they fight to take away choices/freedom/liberty.

So if the forum says no politics they need to get rid of the far leftist group.

IMHO

 

[Superstargoddess]

So if the forum says no politics they need to get rid of the far leftist group.

But then you'll also have to get rid of your posting avatar thingee too!

 

[Justncredible]

Sorry I think my post came out sounding wrong, I am all for open political debate and e-cigs is politcal by nature. One side will say it is bad for us and will try to protect us from our own choices, the other side will just want to partner up with the business leaders and add taxes to class control who can afford them and who will be allowed to profit.

I am all for as many people from all walks of life to stop the government from interfering with our rights. Even if it is the "progressives", which are the same who made alcohol illegal in the early 1900's, along with pot, the same ones who gave us a central bank and stole all the gold from the people under FDR. I am not saying this to attack them, just some facts about what they stand for.

I see no way any of this can be discussed without politics.

 

[harmony gardens]

But then you'll also have to get rid of your posting avatar thingee too!

Personally, i think that would be a nice jesture.

How about if everyone goes back to thier own political corner and quit bashing people we're trying to get to help us in the campaign forum?? We are all on the same team here, aren't we?

Regardless of what someone feels about the ACLU, if they would be willing to help us,,, they would be welcome in my book. As I posted earlier, I think they would be interested in a case that might involve collusion between anti smoking organizations, the FDA, big tobacco, big pharm to keep thier money go round going by deliberately prejudicing the public against a safer alternative through misleading test results warning against dangers that exist in quantities less than products the FDA has already approved.

Also, just because they didn't show interest yet,,, I think they will at some point. I happen to think the ACLU is generally a force for good,,, but again,,, that doesn't matter. Just knowing what i know of them, and knowing what I know of the issues around vaping,,, they will catch the scent of the rat if we keep waving it under thier nose. Feel free to contact anyone YOU like to support us.

 

[vt100]

Prohibition was vetoed by Woodrow Wilson, Democrat. The veto was overridden by a conservative, republican, congress. The repeal of Prohibition began with the Volstead Act, that was endorsed and signed by President Franklin Roosevelt; Democrat, progressive, architect of the New Deal.

Roosevelt did sign the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, however the Act was hardly the work of any progressives. A conservative by the name of Harry J. Anslinger, along with William Randolf Hearst and the Dupont corporation, played on American's fears of Mexican Immigration to get the Act passed. The act ensured the patents owned by Dupont for plastic and paper production would not be made worthless by methods using much less expensive hemp.

 

[ladyraj]

We (those of us who know we are nicotione addicts) all have a genetic pre-disposistion to nicotine- it is in our genes. Genetically we are a minority. So as a minority who's rights may be violated- yes please contact the ACLU and get them on my side.

FDA- **** Off

WTH...predisposition to nicotine in our genes? This even surpasses the "nicotine madness" hyperbole in the media. Sorry to disagree so indelicately but this type of rhetoric can not be ignored lest we bear idiotic addicted children helpless to the coding of their genes to a drug. This theory was formed to make addicts feel better. I'm not an addict I simply enjoy smoking nicotine. Is it nature or nurture? This is one of the oldest and unanswerable questions on this planet.

But the right to use products that are legal (currently) is a human right and should not be legislated away by pseudo-parents.

 

[Superstargoddess]

Sorry I think my post came out sounding wrong, I am all for open political debate and e-cigs is politcal by nature. One side will say it is bad for us and will try to protect us from our own choices, the other side will just want to partner up with the business leaders and add taxes to class control who can afford them and who will be allowed to profit.

I am all for as many people from all walks of life to stop the government from interfering with our rights. Even if it is the "progressives", which are the same who made alcohol illegal in the early 1900's, along with pot, the same ones who gave us a central bank and stole all the gold from the people under FDR. I am not saying this to attack them, just some facts about what they stand for.

I see no way any of this can be discussed without politics.

Honestly, I don't even think that there should be more than one political party. Call me socialist or communist if you want to, but think about it: All that the political parties do is argue and fight with each other. People are too busy .....ing and complaining about the other party to even get anything done around here.

Instead of having democrat and republican, we should have the AMERICAN Party. Work together for a common goal, making America better. There are some issues that people will never agree on, but then there are other things that everyone wants to make better about the country. Concentrate on that, you know?

As I have mentioned, I am not democrat, republican, or independent. I vote for whoever I think the best person is. Happened to be McCain on this last election. But my favorite president of all time was Reagan. However, as far as democrats go, I liked Clinton until he didn't do jack **** while in office and also what he did in the "Oral Office". When he was first elected though, I was not old enough to vote yet, but I would have voted for him. I have a mix of repub and demo views.

 

[Sar]

I wouldn't give the ACLU the muck off of my shoes ...

School prayer charges stir protests

They are representitive everything that is messed up about the world today

Perfectly reasonable for ACLU to step in. I wouldn't want my child to be exposed to this type of pressure. The teachers are in a position of authority and have influence on kids. I'd want my children to be influenced by my church and my beliefs, not by religion of some high-school principal.

 

[eric]

Prohibition was vetoed by Woodrow Wilson, Democrat. The veto was overridden by a conservative, republican, congress. The repeal of Prohibition began with the Volstead Act, that was endorsed and signed by President Franklin Roosevelt; Democrat, progressive, architect of the New Deal.

Roosevelt did sign the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, however the Act was hardly the work of any progressives. A conservative by the name of Harry J. Anslinger, along with William Randolf Hearst and the Dupont corporation, played on American's fears of Mexican Immigration to get the Act passed. The act ensured the patents owned by Dupont for plastic and paper production would not be made worthless by methods using much less expensive hemp.

Democrats were different in those days than they are now. In the past, I probably would have been a Democrat. Now, I'm Libertarian.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

Perfectly reasonable for ACLU to step in. I wouldn't want my child to be exposed to this type of pressure. The teachers are in a position of authority and have influence on kids. I'd want my children to be influenced by my church and my beliefs, not by religion of some high-school principal.

The criminal charges, which carry up to a $5,000 fine and a six-month jail term, originated with a Jan. 28 incident in which Mr. Lay, a deacon at a local Baptist church, asked Mr. Freeman to offer mealtime prayers at a lunch for school employees and booster-club members who had helped with a school field-house project.
Mr. Staver said no students were present at the event, which was held on school property but after school hours.

No students were present, just staff. Not that it matters though, for the purposes of this wider discussion
It merely goes to the credability of the ACLU as a fair and balanced arbitrator. Quite obviously they don't have a clue what the words 'fair and balanced' mean. They know what the word 'agenda' means though.

 

[Sar]

The criminal charges, which carry up to a $5,000 fine and a six-month jail term, originated with a Jan. 28 incident in which Mr. Lay, a deacon at a local Baptist church, asked Mr. Freeman to offer mealtime prayers at a lunch for school employees and booster-club members who had helped with a school field-house project.
Mr. Staver said no students were present at the event, which was held on school property but after school hours.

No students were present, just staff. Not that it matters though, for the purposes of this wider discussion
It merely goes to the credability of the ACLU as a fair and balanced arbitrator. Quite obviously they don't have a clue what the words 'fair and balanced' mean. They know what the word 'agenda' means though.

Oh, but you left out a quote just one sentence later:

Mr. Mach said the event was during the school day and that Mr. Lay, the school's principal, has said in writing that students were present.
"Decisions about the religious upbringing of children should be left in the hands of parents, not school officials," he said.