Adding more flavor to DIY

[cassandraschild]

So, lets say I'm making a mixture at %5 flavoring, can't taste it very well, and want to up to 7%...10%... what ever.

Do you all just add the difference in % to the test batch you are making? Start from scratch?

If I have been steeping a test batch, after I add the % difference do I still have to wait the same steeping time for the flavor to get stronger? IE if I steeped a batch for 3 weeks, after I add the new % of flavoring to the sample do I have to wait 3 more weeks before I taste test again?

Thanks for the help!

 

[MarkyD]

As much as I vape, my test batches dont last much more than an hour lol. If its just a small difference in flavor percentage, Ill add it right to the test. Since most flavorings are PG based, it slightly increases the PG/VG ratio and lowers any nic content. Not much to worry about since its only a test. If I really goof on a percentage, Ill vape it up (or dump it) and make another.

 

[Train2]

The thing is, you want a repeatable recipe. And when you add more of a flavor, you're changing ALL the ratios - even the PG/VG ratio.
So while you CAN just add some flavor, you'd need to somehow get the new amount back into a recipe...
You should use a calculator - I recommend eJuiceMeUp.
What you'll see, if you change the flavor from 5% to 7%, is it may ALSO change how much VG or PG you should have in there - so you can add the DIFFERENCE between the new recipe and the old recipe - and you'll still have your targeted NIC level, and targeted PG/VG level.

I hope that makes sense...

Regarding steeping - no one knows. It's likely not necessary to steep anywhere near as long as the original time for an "adjustment"...

 

[MarkyD]

Id say also that vaping up a ml or two of whatever it is gives a chance to think about what exactly is wrong (or right) with what Im tasting, and how it can be improved the next time. It doesnt have to be terribly exacting or difficult, it just has to taste right. Isnt that the point of test batches?

 

[cassandraschild]

Mainly Im just hoping not to have to wait ANOTHER 3 weeks for a small flavor adjustment. I do use that calculator. Saves so much time. I am aware that adding flavor changes all percentages.

I guess that won't matter AS much when i get my ultrasonic.

 

[Hoosier]

First, what is with all the waiting to taste test? Completely baffling to me. Even if steeping helps, you'd never know because you have no idea what it tasted like before steeping.

Second, just add flavoring if the taste is light. That's why you keep notes. After all the adding is done, you go to the notes and add it all up to find what the actual %'s for everything was.

It's like creating a recipe for a dish. Add, taste, adjust, taste, simmer (which my grandmother called steeping) and taste, and add any last minute adjustments, stir, taste, and serve. If you want to repeat it, it's just a matter of adding up all the original ingredients and the additions and writing it down.

 

[dannyv45]

You are so right Hoosier. Why wait to taste. If you don't know what it taste like right after the mixing how will you be able to guage the change over time not having a base line to compare it to.. And yes you can add more flavor right to the mix. Just keep notes so you can reproduce it.

 

[cassandraschild]

I do taste immediately with my new 306. But, I don't know why... if it's my taste buds still healing or what, on my other units, I can only barely taste (if I can taste at all) any mixtures, unless I make the flavor %'s very very high (30ish%), unless they steep for 3 + weeks.

Example: I made some Granny Smith Apple at 20% summer before last. Taste tested it after it was made (before I had my 306) and couldn't taste it at all. Just tasted like PG/VG/Nic (maybe I made the flavor % too high? I dunno). I put it on a shelf in my room, it got hidden behind a book, and sat for 1 year and 3 months before I found it again. Tried it again, and it tasted AMAZING, even without the 306. Steeping, unless I'm using the 306 seems to be very important. But I can't use the 306 unless I'm at home, cause it makes a mess.

I like Hoosier's advice and I'll follow that out. I do write down my formula's now, but I didn't think about the fact that I can use the measurements themselves to reverse engineer the % when I get the juice to a level I like.

 

[tonyorion]

The advice is all good keep notes, use a calculator, and make only small batches when testing. However, you must be aware of what you are measuring.

If you eyedropper has a typical 20 drops/ml, it means that you can only measure down to .05 ml. On a 3ml sample, the best you can measure to is 1.67% ( .05ml/3.00 ml = .0166666, etc. or 1.67%). That assumes that your drop size has no variance whatsoever. I do not want to open a bag of worms by questioning that assumption since some people take such questions as affronts to their integrity.

In other words, if you goal is to go up in 1% increments, your test sample has to be 5 ml.

Labs use pipettes to draw a specific volume to very high accuracies and precision rather than count on an eye dropper, I would not recommend pipettes for the average person since they are very long and get even longer when you add a pipette pump. Hard to handle and very delicate.

I have pipettors from the lab as well as boxes of tips which were headed for the scrap heap since they were being replaced with new models. They are old but are more than adequate for mixing. The disposable tips in a myriad of different sizes are really convenient since you eliminate any cross contamination.

But you are talking about a hefty investment for new stuff.

As far as eyedroppers are concerned, the longer and thinner the tip, the more accurate and precise the measurement. If you double or triple the drops/ml, you are more than in the ballpark. You can pick up a decent Pasteur pipette for under $10.

Please remember that I am talking about mixing small test batches. The larger the batch size, the less your error with the tools available to most hobbyist DIY'ers.

If you want really good results for small batches, buy a digital scale with .01 grams resolution and use a syringe to control your drops.

 

[cassandraschild]

Tonyorion: I don't use drops, I've found it too inaccurate, too much variance between the different types of liquids, and sadly I don't have a digital scale. I use 1 ml syringes as it's the most accurate I can get. And I do make small batches, only 5ml to test.

My question was less about measurements, and more about steeping when adding more flavor I guess.

 

[williebb123]

i feel your pain cassandra i have a watermelon that you cannot even taste when mixed it has to set for 3wks then it magically changes to a wonderful juice it took 3 tries to get correct adding more flavor and reducing sweetness but i kept each previous recipe in case i went the wrong way

 

[BigDaddio]

I am with the Hoosier (My ex-wife is a Hoosier ) I cannot wait to taste. I will mix and taste, in a dripper with cotton. Sometimes I even change the cotton between flavor adjustments!

I will make my initial mix, then I taste. Decide what I like/don't like and make adjustments there RECORDING my changes diligently. I have lost more than one good mix to forgetting what I put in it. Sounds simple no? But I bet many don't keep that good of a record. If I think its bad or don't like it I may steep it, or as is often the case I set it aside find it weeks later and taste it. Usually this is during a cleaning purge, and if I don't like still I dump it.

My steeping technique is to use hot rice. I have a Pyrex bowl with a lid 3/4 full of DRY UNCOOKED rice. The lid keeps my wife happy. I heat the rice for 2 mins in the microwave. I place the bottles in the hot rice and loosen the lids. Let them come to room temp. Shake shake shake, shake your bottles. I have found that 4-5 cycles like this are about the same as letting it set for a week or two. I wasn't able to discern a difference anyway. I saw a thread somewhere where a guy use a spectrometer to compare steeped vs fresh mixed. He found that the very very slight chemical change was the same with the rice method as with steeping over time. Of course as he said that was a certain recipe and some others my react differently. I would imagine tobacco flavors may not age as well in the rice but would love for someone to try and tell me.

I taste it after each cycle in the rice, well because I cannot help myself. Plus sometimes they only need like one or two cycles to taste good. Usually after the first time you will notice the change, after that it is subtle. I have also had flavors go flat after this process, still trying to understand why.

This brings another point I have learned the hard way. I have a roll of blue painters tape and a sharpie. LABEL THEM BOTTLES! I have placed bottles in the rice thinking "oh I will remember what that is and label it later". Then I get ivolved in something else and forget and the wife takes the bottles out while cleaning the kitchen... and two weeks later you find an unlabeled bottle that tastes good and do not know what it is. Sounds like common sense but I apparently do not have any.

 

[cassandraschild]

Great... from now on when i shake my bottles im going to have that song in my head ill give your rice steeping a try, but sadlyi dont do tobaccos so i cant help you there.

2 questions on the rice:

1. Are you closing the lid on the bowl but opening the lids on the bottles?
2. How many times can you do this to the rice before you toss it for good?

 

[BigDaddio]

I dont know yet how long I can keep the rice... Mrs did toss out one bowl because I over heated and then it smelled burned up every time I use it. No I only use the lid so it doesnt spill all over when I am not using it. Mrs is very nice and lets me keep it on the counter next to the microwave

 

[cassandraschild]

Thanks bigdaddio!