adjustable draw for all atomizers
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you are more clever than me with those jokes you make emonty!!!! I remember the "case" issue
that's all I can do: make you laugh and pay for your creations..I can send a friend of mine... 
but then you will not produce ;-) I will send the other one, that will make you run!!
but then you will not produce ;-) I will send the other one, that will make you run!! that's all I can do: make you laugh and pay for your creations..I can send a friend of mine...
send me your first friend and I will still produce
not GGs of cource, maybe some babies
send me your first friend and I will still produce
not GGs of cource, maybe some babies
First things first....you have to answer a question: what is this
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First things first....you have to answer a question: what is this
I will answer to you tomorow, I will show it to some people and we will see
I hadnt thought of that vapn!!! Yes, you are so right my friend!!!!!!!!! But now I have to make an adjustable air flow on the catridge too
I was playing with idea today at work. I took four mouthpieces with me and decided to try drilling different size holes in the ends. I noticed a big difference in the way the AFS pulled in liquid with the smallest hole. When I went with the largest hole I was getting a dry atty and very little juice flow. So an adjustable mouthpiece would help with those that like to use VG juice. They would need a smaller hole to get more vacuum pressure. A less thick juice would be fine with a larger hole and lighter draw. These were just my observations with my current set up. I also noticed a bit of a difference with my Grant. It has a cartomizer ready atty connection which allows for a lighter draw. When I put the same atty on my other GG without the cartomizer ready connection the draw is stiffer. So yes please do make an adjustable connection and adjustable mouthpiece so we can tune our AFS to our liking and juice viscosity.
Glad I could be of help. I love my AFS and would be one sad vaper without it.....
Putting adjustable draw in the tip will not work effectiviely. Any differences in orifice size will have a negligible effect on draw/hit/juice flow. If vapnaway was seeing a change in draw/vapor/juice when changing the tip oulet size, it was due to the tip not being sealed correctly to the atomizer (plastic ones leak around where they push into the atomizer).
If one acheives a 100 percent seal via an oring like on the brass ones, you will see a negligible difference in draw/hit/juice flow characteristics by changing the tip orifice size, as simple mechanics tells you that the sustained air volume exiting the tip can ONLY equal the volume of air entering the atomizer. I have tested tip outlet size from .031 to 3/8 inch size with no difference in draw.
To effect draw/hit/juice flow from the afs, one needs to change the orifice size of the air entering the atomizer, not the orifice size of the tip where the air exits. If one were to make the atomizer tip even smaller (say .020), it still would not work effectively as then you get a plenum effect, whereby you are drawing air from an unused volume of air in the atomizer chamber where the cart resides and it creates unsteady draw across the atomizer element.
Vapnaway posted in my forums that he got more vapor with his brass oring sealed tip he purchased; this is due to it being sealed with an o-ring and thus allowing no air leakage around the tip, not due to it having a larger hole in the tip. By being 100 percent sealed, it increased the amount of air flowing through the atomizer, rather then sucking part of the air through the leaking tip.
Thus, to manipulate draw/hit/juice flow, one needs to regulate the air entering the atomizer, not the air exiting, which is what Imeo is trying to do in making his adaptation of the adjustable draw i pioneered several months ago which would effect the draw/hit/juice flow.
Hope my research saves people a little time...
David
If one acheives a 100 percent seal via an oring like on the brass ones, you will see a negligible difference in draw/hit/juice flow characteristics by changing the tip orifice size, as simple mechanics tells you that the sustained air volume exiting the tip can ONLY equal the volume of air entering the atomizer. I have tested tip outlet size from .031 to 3/8 inch size with no difference in draw.
To effect draw/hit/juice flow from the afs, one needs to change the orifice size of the air entering the atomizer, not the orifice size of the tip where the air exits. If one were to make the atomizer tip even smaller (say .020), it still would not work effectively as then you get a plenum effect, whereby you are drawing air from an unused volume of air in the atomizer chamber where the cart resides and it creates unsteady draw across the atomizer element.
Vapnaway posted in my forums that he got more vapor with his brass oring sealed tip he purchased; this is due to it being sealed with an o-ring and thus allowing no air leakage around the tip, not due to it having a larger hole in the tip. By being 100 percent sealed, it increased the amount of air flowing through the atomizer, rather then sucking part of the air through the leaking tip.
Thus, to manipulate draw/hit/juice flow, one needs to regulate the air entering the atomizer, not the air exiting, which is what Imeo is trying to do in making his adaptation of the adjustable draw i pioneered several months ago which would effect the draw/hit/juice flow.
Hope my research saves people a little time...
David
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than ks a lot vapn, your idea was splendit!! Something I hadnt thought. I said that you are the master of AFS and now you just prooved it
Tell me if I am wrong ! : With an adjustable mouthpiece or adapter we dont need the filler ..Isnt it ?
yes, maybe we will not need it ggero, maybe we will. Some tries will cnvince us my friend
Putting adjustable draw in the tip will work effectiviely for AFS my friend. If you think a little more you will understand what I say. I will tell you an example. Think that the air you take with an inhale is 1ml in 4 sec. Now think that you make a hole on the catridge, so the air you take is the same but in 2 sec. That means that the preassure you put on the air that goes through the atty and the liquid that goes through the AFS to the atomizer is lower, so less liquid will go to the atty. Thats not very dificult to understand, ok?
I dont agree that if we seal the atomizer with the catridge we will see a better effect to the existing air flow but thats not my intent. My intent is to keep things as they are and try to maximize the air flow to the mouth so I will have the effect that I mention before. As for the brass catridge you mention, I have to say that its not the best for health because you "eat" all the oxide that brass produce.
So my purpose is to make AFS work better and that we can make it happen only with hole on the catridge and not with holes on the GG connector. Imagine that at the current situation (without any adjustments) the AFS is overfluided some times. If I adjust the air flow from the current situation to zero, the only that we will win is to overfluid the atomizer more because we will have to suck harder to produce smoke so more liquid will come to atty.
Of cource you produce more smoke with a sealed catridge because you dont loose air from the catridge, thats obvious but the catridge is already sealed. I say again that its not my purpose for now. My purpose is to make AFS works better and if you think of it you will see that I am right.
Thanks for trying to save me some time but you didnt understand my purpose. I have already made an adjustable draw for the air through the atomizer, it was the purpose that I made this thread, but vapn just gave me a new idea for AFS and this idea can be made only with holes on catridge.
As for the fact that if you put an o-ring to seal the atomizer and the castridge so no air goes through the catridge, I dont see any diference in air flow because catridge is tight enough to not let air goes through it. To proove this, I call my people to use the atomizer with plastic catridge as the normally do and then they can put out the catridge and smoke without it, putting their lips around the atomizer. The inhale is just the same.
So when vapn says that he saw a big difference on the work of AFS is of cource more than right
Thanks for posting on my forum.
Imeo
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I too, appreciate your reply, however, this is incorrect and defies simple fluid dynamics and physics. Given equal vacuum (think of vacuum as how hard you inhale) the outlet will only flow what the inlet size allows in. Thus the volume is regulated via the inlet size, not the outlet size.
If you are suggesting that you are going to add another hole in the cartridge ahead of the atomizer chamber, in addition to the hole already in the tip, this too will not work. Think of a straw sucking up milk from a glass, it works fine as long as you keep your mouth sealed around the straw and suck, however, if while sucking you are to poke a hole in the side of the straw, eureka, you can no longer suck up liquid! This would have the same effect on an atomizer and afs liquid chamber, to put another hole in the cartridge, would now no longer allow sufficent flow of air across the atomizer element and would stall any juice flow, other then gravities effect on it.
You can only increase your theoritical inhale volumes from 1ml in 4 sec to 1ml in 2 sec (doubling it) by two methods and still maintain proper atomizer function and both are contigent upon the inlet size being of sufficient size to flow it. 1. You can increase the inlet size. 2. You can inhale much harder (thus increasing the velocity of air entering the atomizer).
If you want to increase or decrease the vacuum to draw liquid out of the afs, putting a larger or smaller hole in the tip will not increase or decrease the vaccuum. To increase vacuum, reduce the inlet orifice size or sucking harder will (thus outflowing the inlet size and creating increased vacuum, thus sucking in more fluid).
To decrease vacuum, make the inlet orifice bigger, or suck less hard.
Remember, anything we do to the tip outlet size follows one simple rule of physics, it can ONLY flow what the inlet size allows in.
Think of taking a 5" fire hose and attaching it to your 1" garden spout, it won't flow a 5" column of water because the inlet size(the 1" spout) is not of sufficient volume to flow it.
So to repeat, to adjust airflow/hit/juice draw, the largest effect will be gained from regulating the inlet orifice size, not the outlet.
I hope this helps...
David
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But it works Forcedfuel to me, so instead of answering to your long pm, I suggest you to try it by yourself
Thanks again
, so instead of answering to your long pm, I suggest you to try it by yourselfThanks again
But I will give you an example. Take a straw and put it in the water. Then suck
Then make a hole in the side of the straw that will be out of the water. Then try to suck again. Will you drink the same quantity of water? No. That applies to the liquid that comes to atomizer from the AFS. Nice and easy example?
Then make a hole in the side of the straw that will be out of the water. Then try to suck again. Will you drink the same quantity of water? No. That applies to the liquid that comes to atomizer from the AFS. Nice and easy example?
I noticed this weeks ago when we first started testing the AFS. I did not post about it because I wanted to continue testing with juice viscosity. When you are dealing with the AFS there is another inlet port to think about. You can feel the juice come into the atty and hear it sometimes. When I first got the new Brass T-tip I noticed a big difference in the performance of the AFS. To get the juice to flow I needed to pull much faster and harder so that is what got me thinking of this orifice hole size in the mouthpiece. So David has helped us out here in a sense.
So if one were using a thicker juice he would need a smaller hole at both the inlet and outlet ports. This will increase the vacuum pressure at the AFS inlet hole. Adjustable draw is the only way to help. It would be veeery nice to tune this on the fly with a simple turn or two. I know the super T has this option but you have to change those pills to achieve a change. Nice idea but not really adjustable on-the-fly. I think the GG adjustable draw adapter for the 801 is a simple loosen or tighten thing. Am I right because I don't own one....
So if one were using a thicker juice he would need a smaller hole at both the inlet and outlet ports. This will increase the vacuum pressure at the AFS inlet hole. Adjustable draw is the only way to help. It would be veeery nice to tune this on the fly with a simple turn or two. I know the super T has this option but you have to change those pills to achieve a change. Nice idea but not really adjustable on-the-fly. I think the GG adjustable draw adapter for the 801 is a simple loosen or tighten thing. Am I right because I don't own one....
You are partly correct here vapnaway, but you sucking harder and faster to increase vacuum to get the juice to flow had nothing to do with the bigger outlet orifice size. This is a sealed design, your vacuum is only regulated by the inlet. Trust me, this is simple physics. By reducing the tip size, it will not effect vacuum until the tip size is smaller then the inlet size which would be less then a .030 hole or about the size of a period (.) at which point you would decrease the vacuum in the chamber, not increase it and you would also start to kill vapor production from the decreased vacuum pulling air through (you had suggested earlier that going with smaller tip outlet sizes would increase vacuum, when it would actually decrease vacuum at the point when it became smaller then the inlet volume, which since you were just drilling out existing tips, you never reached that threshold)
My airflow also hasn't used pills for a long time, it uses a variable set screw to adjust airflow, but no big deal!
To reiterate, you need to adjust the inlet size to effectively regulate the vacuum/juice flow/airflow. This is simple fluid dynamics at work here.
David
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