Afraid to tell my Dad?

[lelly]

Well I thought by asking I could find a definative answer, but after reading it all, I am even more confused! Maybe a bit of history will offer some better advice? So here goes:

To say that our relationship is strained is an understatement, in reality, we don't really have one. My mom died of breast cancer when I was 9, which is the reason why he hates smoking (even though it hasn't been proven the two are linked, it is still STUPID of me to ever have started with a family history of cancer) and I have hated myself for all these years for continuing to smoke, thinking how dissapointed my mom would be in me, and how angry it made my dad.

My dad has always been the strong silent type, but since my mom died, so did all the positive memories of my dad. It became impossible to talk to him about anything, he was a closed book, and I lived in fear of hearing the "I'm disapointed in you" speech. When my dad got remarried a few years later, my step-mom tried to repair the relationship with my dad, but things just got worse. She had 4 kids of her own that had most of her attention and I just felt like an outsider.

The only part of my life he ever took part in was discipline, and I went wild in my teens to get that negative attention. I skipped school all the time, used alcohol and drugs, stayed out all night, and I moved out when I was 17 and never really looked back. Once I grew up a bit, he talked me into going to university, then I dissapointed him once again when I didn't finish, and never ended up making anything of myself. My step mom still puts in a small effort to keep in touch, the odd email and occasional phone call, but I resent my dad for not putting in any effort whatsoever to be a part of mine and his grandchildren's lives.

Since I moved to Manitoba 6 years ago, I have made the 14 hour drive back home 5 times, so they could meet my son when he was born, and a few times since, more out of a feeling of guilt and obligation. We live on a tight budget and my dad is very well off and can't even spend a few bucks on a plane ticket for a weekend visit. My dad has been out to my place twice, and only because he had business meetings in Winnipeg, about an hour away. He has not met my daughter and she is almost two.

Because all of my step-mom's kids had their own kids around the same time, she makes a big effort to be a part of their lives and includes my dad in it, and it makes me feel like that is his new family. Many times I have completely written off our relationship, thinking it is better to just give up hope of us ever having one rather than constantly being dissapointed. Now I have been sucked back into dropping the cash on a plane ticket home. I have decided to spend most of my trip in snowboarding in Jasper to avoid the uncomfortable silence of being at home.

Even if I did want to tell him, I don't know if I could ever even get the courage to do it. His approval still means alot to me, I don't know why and I wish it didn't, and I am terrified at what his reaction would be. I know that he would love to hear that I have made a healthier choice because he probably does worry about my health, though he would never show it. Having a conversation with him about something other than small talk might also open up the lines of communication a bit. There also may be a small chance that knowing I have quit smoking may fix some of the awkwardness between us. But then there is always the chance that he will not embrace my choice and see it as another negative thing that I am doing with my life. He is an academic and I know if I told him, he would do all the research on it, and the fact that it is banned by health canada may be a deal breaker.

 

[Kams Cats]

Wow i think your Dad is related to mine. Except he never got involved in my life at all. I am 45 and he didn't know I was a PAD + smoker. That might sound strange but what is stranger is that I work for him. See him everyday but that is just how involved he is in my life. Been to my house 2 times in 5 years. Yep my loving Dad who visits his daughter (not me, my sister) and son every weekend and makes sure his daughter (Again not me) is well compensated at work. Tells me all the time that he has to keep the business going for her. So it's not just sour grapes.

He discovered I had quit smoking because I got a PV for my brother and he showed it to my father this weekend. My father wanted to know where he got it from. Otherwise he would never have noticed mine sitting on the desk for the past two weeks.

Sorry I just vented in your post. It just sort of hit a nerve with me.

I say, don't bother. It's likely just to cause you more stress and something tells me it's going to be a bit stressful at your house.

 

[kanadiankat]

With all that background - I think I'd agree with Kams Cat - might be best not to bring it up. Sounds like you two have the grand canyon of conversations to cross first.

PV's are just little things in the great scheme of it all.

....and Lelly - it's pretty common for girls to need the approval of our dad's. Probably more research on that then on ecigs... lol. Go for what you can get - he probably admires you far more than he's able to tell you anyway.

enjoy snowboarding..

 

[Supertaper]

I think that whether you should tell your dad or not depends on whether he was aware that you smoked or not. If he actually didn't know then telling him may very well create problems. But if he did know, and just never said anything, I think I might bring it up. I don't know your dad, or the nuances of your relationship over the years, but from what you wrote it sounds as though he was always somewhat reserved, and losing your mom made that even worse. I could see how he would be so very down on smoking. Even without a definite link between breast cancer and smoking, losing someone to cancer is losing someone to cancer, and smoking causes cancer. So if he knew that you smoked, he might be quite receptive to you vaping as a means of getting off the cigarettes. Because, really, he KNOWS what it's like to lose a loved one to cancer.

It is possible that he feels the strain of your relationship also, and would like to repair it, but it has gone on so long he doesn't know how to start. Or even if it would be welcome.

I have had a very distant relationship with my father over the years. He lives in California, and has since I was a toddler. I'm 39 and I can count on one hand the number of times he has been up here to see me since he left Canada. For years I felt that I just didn't matter that much to him. But I have come to realize that much of the distance between us has been me having my guard up, because I felt that he loved me less than my sister (his daughter with my step mom), and it seemed he put in so little effort. I have come to realize that for our relationship to grow into something warm and comfortable I have to let my guard down and take a chance. I know now that he loves me, and that the distance between us has pained him for years, but he didn't know how to rectify the situation. I still have my moments of resentment, but they are getting fewer.

I don't know if this is too rambling to be helpful, but ultimately it sounds like you would really like to try to build a better relationship with your dad, and your PV may be the icebreaker. Or not, but I think it might be really good for both of you if one of you took the first step. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

 

[Supertaper]

Kams Cats, that doesn't sound strange so much as awful! Even keeping in mind that everyone has their own struggles, that just sounds wrong and has got to be VERY difficult to accept.

 

[JWebb]

I agree with noizmaker

 

[BlondieLocs]

Well I thought by asking I could find a definative answer, but after reading it all, I am even more confused! Maybe a bit of history will offer some better advice?

I'm glad you gave the extra background. It completely changes my response to your original question.

My dad has always been the strong silent type, but since my mom died, so did all the positive memories of my dad. It became impossible to talk to him about anything, he was a closed book, and I lived in fear of hearing the "I'm disapointed in you" speech. When my dad got remarried a few years later, my step-mom tried to repair the relationship with my dad, but things just got worse. She had 4 kids of her own that had most of her attention and I just felt like an outsider.

The only part of my life he ever took part in was discipline, and I went wild in my teens to get that negative attention. I skipped school all the time, used alcohol and drugs, stayed out all night, and I moved out when I was 17 and never really looked back. Once I grew up a bit, he talked me into going to university, then I dissapointed him once again when I didn't finish, and never ended up making anything of myself. My step mom still puts in a small effort to keep in touch, the odd email and occasional phone call, but I resent my dad for not putting in any effort whatsoever to be a part of mine and his grandchildren's lives.

I can't be certain of all your family dynamics, but there is one thing I can say that may put things into a different perspective for you: Your father was hurting too. (I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour - just offer an explanation based on study and experience.)

There have been some studies that show that men have a much harder time dealing with loss of a spouse than do women (some actually estimate that an elderly widower will usually die within two - three years of his wife's death). Women generally turn to other support systems; men have a harder time with coping mechanisms, and sometimes "lash out" after bottling up emotions. I've seen many men that have ended up estranging their loved ones because they did not know how to deal.

I've also seen men that will purposefully estrange family members because they are reminded of tragedy when looking at or speaking to them. (My uncle told my mother to her face that she "is dead to him" because she reminds him of their mother.)

Dynamics with parents can be tricky in situations like this. My father died when I was young, and I often went through periods of lashing out and estrangement with my mother. It wasn't until the two of us studied cognitive psychology that we figured some stuff out and fixed our relationship: She blamed herself for not being able to be a better mother - we were latchkey kids, and so she tried to "buy our love". I resented her for doing that instead of just saying it. I wanted attention, not gifts. She thought she was a failure as a parent because I lashed out. (FWIW, my mother is now my best friend and business partner.)

It's also possible that he just doesn't know how to fix your relationship, and is afraid to try for fear of failing. Most people don't like to admit fear or defeat.

Even if I did want to tell him, I don't know if I could ever even get the courage to do it. His approval still means alot to me, I don't know why and I wish it didn't, and I am terrified at what his reaction would be. I know that he would love to hear that I have made a healthier choice because he probably does worry about my health, though he would never show it. Having a conversation with him about something other than small talk might also open up the lines of communication a bit. There also may be a small chance that knowing I have quit smoking may fix some of the awkwardness between us. But then there is always the chance that he will not embrace my choice and see it as another negative thing that I am doing with my life. He is an academic and I know if I told him, he would do all the research on it, and the fact that it is banned by health canada may be a deal breaker.

It's natural to still want a relationship with your father, and I'm thinking from what you've said that you already have an "internal champion" - your step-mother. You've already said that she has tried numerous times to heal the relationship between the two of you, and I'm guessing it's because she senses it is something you BOTH want, whether or not you'll admit it to each other.

I would call or email her and let her know that you wish to someday have a father/daughter relationship again. Tell her about the fact that you quit smoking with the aid of e-cigs. Basically, tell her everything you have told us. My guess is that she is the one who will be able to tell you how receptive your father would be to that info.

And in regards to your father being an academic... tell him to go ahead and do his research. Point him to Dr. Carl Phillips' studies of the e-cig at the University of Alberta in Edmonton. Academic to academic.

Specific pages of interest:
Electronic cigarettes. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
Nicotine and addiction. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

My mother was also skeptical - after I switched to e-cigs, she wanted to know why I just didn't quit nicotine altogether... until I told her about the studies about possible nicotine benefits. My step-dad told Mom to shut up, and that I could vape in their house if I wanted to. (He's a former smoker and his brother also suffers from Parkinson's.) Yay for step-parents!

 

[ianhyphen]

Wow! That's a lot of gravity in the situation. I also retract my suggesting to bring it up. Talk if he brings it up...
I agree that your step mother may be a great help. Not to mention, she may want a relationship with you and your children just as much.

As far as conversing with an academic... (If it does come up)
The REAL research on PVs is not to be taken lightly or considered a defense for our addictions. Through science (and not propaganda) respected academics are proving that vaping nicotine is an effective way to remove a life-threatening addiction to cigarettes. Nicotine is not believed to be a cancer-causing agent in tobacco smoke, nor is it the only addictive alkaloid in cigarette smoke. If he truly will research it, and not just read a socialized-medical no-risk viewpoint (Health Canada), the studies coming out speak for themselves. For former smokers, vaping is a decision to be proud of.

My heart goes out to your family. I believe that time heals all wounds (yes, and wounds all heels) and you clearly have a different perspective now than you did growing up. I think a fresh self perspective is the definition of growing up. It's a continual process, not some well-defined achievement. I wish you the best.

 

[rolandpibb]

lelly, I really hope you can work things out with your dad and get the relationship you want and need.

My dad passed away from cancer in 2005 and I miss him every day. I would give anything to have him back.

 

[NoizMaker]

they probably think your insane from smoking glycol and want to get as far away from u as possible lol glycerine is ok though but ud never catch me smoking antifreeze (glycol)

haha No worries wood, see anti-freeze used to have a different base than propylene glycol and it was a very hazardous situation indeed. This video explains more about why these companies started using PG

 

[sherid]

So sorry to say this, but the truth is the relationship ha NOTHING to do with smoking or with vaping. It has to do with the relationship or lack or it between a child and his parent. I understand it since I am a product of the same illness that colors children and parents. Look for solutions beyond smoke, mirrors, and vapor because the sad truth is that it has nothing to do with the real issue. I gave up on trying to "fix" what was wrong long ago and tried instead to fix it for my own family. In the end, family dynamics can destroy families. Decide if it means so much to you that you are willing to lose yourself to these people in an attempt to solve it all. I know I am not willing to do so. You must legitimately ask yourself if the price is worth it.

 

[Danesnpits]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Never volunteer more information than people ask for if you aren't sure they will embrace your choices.

I agree, don't offer info. Keep it to yourself. I am in a very similar situation. My parents don't know I vape either and I had to hide it from them this winter when I went to visit. I know they would have freaked and thought it was still smoking. They still don't know and I tend to keep it that way. Have a very enjoyable trip! Such beautiful country! And enjoy your dad, analog free!

 

[Danesnpits]

Well I thought by asking I could find a definative answer, but after reading it all, I am even more confused! Maybe a bit of history will offer some better advice? So here goes:

I just read and feel like you and I have an extremely similar life! Wow. Everything you just described I have done. My mom is still alive but dead to me, and dad has cheated several times. Took me 10 years to go see him, and that was this past winter. The feel you get of wanting approval is how I feel as well. I also did the whole wild child thing as a kid and it left me with no liver from severe alcohol abuse. My life will be shortened because of it. Hun, you need to just go there and have fun. It sounds to me like it will only cause problems if you spill the beans, being that your mom passed away from breast cancer. And I want to tell you how awfully sorry I am that you have had to endure that kind of pain of losing your mom. My heart goes out to you! It sounds to me also that you feel a sense of guilt, that you have never been able to let go of. It is my hope that you can let this go and realize that you did quit analogs and are choosing a healthy lifestyle now. No one is perfect, and you have improved yourself, that you should be very proud of! Getting any sort of validation from your dad at this time may be pushing it, but that is just my opinion. If you want to sit down and have a heart to heart with your dad explaining everything you just did here, then be prepared for some tears. But you could be very pleasantly surprised with his reaction too.It really sounds like it could go either way. For me, I know I am not in a place in my life that I could risk all that by having any heart to heart with anyone in my family. They have let me down too many times, and there is just no trust there anymore.

Only you will know when you get there, and see for yourself if this time is the right time to tell him. There will never be a right time in my family so I live in secret all the time. Perhaps this time just go there and have a good time, and maybe next time, or even on the phone u can talk. That way if things get out of hand you can just hang up! I hope this helps you make a decision. And whatever you decide to do, do it with courage and don't look back. Just look forward no matter what the outcome. You are a very important person, and worthy and you are a GOOD person. Don't ever forget that. And don't ever lose site of who you are. Be proud you quit smoking. Be even prouder you chose to vape!

 

[lelly]

Since I lived the exact same experience as you, I know what I would do. People like your parents and mine would never embrace anything that looks like smoking. They are the original anti-smokers.

I think this is probably the case with him

I was a little surprised though: I have a similar relationship with my dad that you have with yours, and since I'm a guy, there's a little bit more history in the way of friction - I left home very shortly after I started "swinging back" on my dad, just to give you an idea, but while I was visiting, I was digging around in his office, looking for a paper-clip and ran across a printout: he'd visited one of the overpriced cig-alike sites and printed out their page on the benefits of switching to e-cigs.

You never know, you know?

I can totally relate to this. To me, finding that printout would be more than enough to make me ecstatic, almost brought a tear to my eye reading it, lol.

I say, don't bother. It's likely just to cause you more stress and something tells me it's going to be a bit stressful at your house.

With all that background - I think I'd agree with Kams Cat - might be best not to bring it up. Sounds like you two have the grand canyon of conversations to cross first.

I agree, don't offer info. Keep it to yourself.

I think I am leaning more towards not saying anything.

I think that whether you should tell your dad or not depends on whether he was aware that you smoked or not. If he actually didn't know then telling him may very well create problems..... I think it might be really good for both of you if one of you took the first step. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

You hit on one of my biggest fears in telling him, what if he actually didn't know that I smoked all these years? I have barely seen him in 6 years so its not like it was that hard to hide for a few days at a time? If this was the case, it would make things WAY worse! I agree that one of us needs to take the first step and put them selves out there and be vulnerable and let the other in, I think I may just be too scared and hurt and resentful to be the one to do it.

So sorry to say this, but the truth is the relationship ha NOTHING to do with smoking or with vaping. It has to do with the relationship or lack or it between a child and his parent. I understand it since I am a product of the same illness that colors children and parents. Look for solutions beyond smoke, mirrors, and vapor because the sad truth is that it has nothing to do with the real issue. I gave up on trying to "fix" what was wrong long ago and tried instead to fix it for my own family. In the end, family dynamics can destroy families. Decide if it means so much to you that you are willing to lose yourself to these people in an attempt to solve it all. I know I am not willing to do so. You must legitimately ask yourself if the price is worth it.

I know smoking is just the tip of the iceberg, but for the past 15 years that I did smoke, I never spent more than a few hours at home because I had to escape to have a cigarette. It put a strain on our relationship in the beginning, and still does to this day because when I go to visit, I still limit our visits to a couple hours at a time, I am paranoid to hug him or even sit by him incase I smell, and the whole time, all I think about is when I can get out of there and have a cigarette. (now I can just go to the bathroom and have a vape, lol). Smoking was just one of the many ways I disapointed him. I know it is not the reason we are not capable of opening up to eachother, and in all honesty, I think the main reason is that it is just our personalities. They don't fit and they probably never will. At this point in my life, I don't feel it is worth it destroying myself over my relationship with my dad. I don't stress about the fact that we never talk, and the only reason I am stressing now is in anticipation of seeing him this weekend for the first time in 2 years. If it doesn't go well and we don't speak for another 2 years, I won't be heartbroken.

Only you will know when you get there, and see for yourself if this time is the right time to tell him. There will never be a right time in my family so I live in secret all the time. Perhaps this time just go there and have a good time, and maybe next time, or even on the phone u can talk. That way if things get out of hand you can just hang up! I hope this helps you make a decision. And whatever you decide to do, do it with courage and don't look back. Just look forward no matter what the outcome.

It is so nice to hear that such a strong person like you has had a similar past as me. I felt so silly being a grown woman and hiding from my family like I was a naughty teenager, lol. The fact that I still have to lie to him and hide who I am, what is going on in my life, and things that I do because I don't think he will approve sounds silly when I say it, but it is the only was I have ever felt and interacted with my dad. I don't think I can make a descision now as to what I am going to do. In most likelyhood, I will probably not tell him, because I am a big chicken and I don't want whatever happens to ruin my vacation with my brother and my sister. If by some miracle, the situation presents itself to have a serious one on one conversation with my dad, I may get up the nerve to bring it up.

Thankyou everyone for your responses and support. I was feeling really guilty about not wanting to tell him, but I see now that either way is the right choice. I will report back next week when I get home!

 

[arjay55]

If its not too late to add my bit I think it may be worth trying to have a relationship with your stepmother and if that works out hopefully that would a catalyst to bring your father into the relationship too. I think it would be rather difficult (and awkward) to just sit there while your partner is enjoying the grandchildren's attention without the urge to also be part of it.

If that isn't the case and he doesn't feel the need to engage his grandchildren, then I'm afraid he may have died (too much) inside when your mum passed away, something which he just can't cope with. He needs to snap out of it, but it could be harder to do than imaginable.

As far as you smoking and him knowing or not knowing about it I think it doesn't matter one way or another. You have to stand up for your decisions in life (good and poor) if you don't wish to be treated as a child. He can have an opinion on them, and even voice it but he doesn't have the right to vilafy you for them. Withholding his love is another form of punishment, and maybe he needs to know that is not acceptable behaviour between a father and (grown up) child. Even if he is cheesed off with you for some reason, he shouldn't neglect (or reject) his grandkids because of it. Choose your words carefully if you go down this track.

IN SHORT ---

If your kids know you vape and are of an age to have a conversation it will come out sooner or later anyway, so while you are there visiting go out into the back yard while stepmum is hanging out the washing or similar; and vape away. She'll ask what the hell is that and then you can explain. Have a straight forward easy to understand response for her, and if needed a more technical/medical response for your father if he asks after your stepmom mentions it to him.

Good luck

arjay55 - A father of two girls (29 & 30) and grandfather to 2 girls (5 & 3), a boy (almost 2) and a stepdaughter (almost 2). One lives 400 away and the 1500 miles away, and its killing us. Thank god for skype video. This is something worth discussing with him/her too, setting up a skype video link so they can chat to the grandkids every now and then.

 

[BlondieLocs]

If its not too late to add my bit I think it may be worth trying to have a relationship with your stepmother and if that works out hopefully that would a catalyst to bring your father into the relationship too. I think it would be rather difficult (and awkward) to just sit there while your partner is enjoying the grandchildren's attention without the urge to also be part of it.

If that isn't the case and he doesn't feel the need to engage his grandchildren, then I'm afraid he may have died (too much) inside when your mum passed away, something which he just can't cope with. He needs to snap out of it, but it could be harder to do than imaginable.

As far as you smoking and him knowing or not knowing about it I think it doesn't matter one way or another. You have to stand up for your decisions in life (good and poor) if you don't wish to be treated as a child. He can have an opinion on them, and even voice it but he doesn't have the right to vilafy you for them. Withholding his love is another form of punishment, and maybe he needs to know that is not acceptable behaviour between a father and (grown up) child. Even if he is cheesed off with you for some reason, he shouldn't neglect (or reject) his grandkids because of it. Choose your words carefully if you go down this track.

IN SHORT ---

If your kids know you vape and are of an age to have a conversation it will come out sooner or later anyway, so while you are there visiting go out into the back yard while stepmum is hanging out the washing or similar; and vape away. She'll ask what the hell is that and then you can explain. Have a straight forward easy to understand response for her, and if needed a more technical/medical response for your father if he asks after your stepmom mentions it to him.

Good luck

arjay55 - A father of two girls (29 & 30) and grandfather to 2 girls (5 & 3), a boy (almost 2) and a stepdaughter (almost 2). One lives 400 away and the 1500 miles away, and its killing us. Thank god for skype video. This is something worth discussing with him/her too, setting up a skype video link so they can chat to the grandkids every now and then.

Pretty much what I said in a former post.... although not as succinct.

Note to self: You blabber after a glass of wine.

 

[cactusgirl]

In most likelyhood, I will probably not tell him, because I am a big chicken and I don't want whatever happens to ruin my vacation with my brother and my sister. If by some miracle, the situation presents itself to have a serious one on one conversation with my dad, I may get up the nerve to bring it up.

Don't be too hard on yourself, hon. I don't believe it's a matter of being 'a big chicken' but likely that you are non-confrontational. I am the same way. I hate confrontation of any kind and will, more often than not, zip my lip and let it slide rather than confront the issue so as not to 'rock the boat'. As I've gotten older and wiser (ha!), I have become more adept at identifying the issues that are worth rocking the boat over. Just take it one day at a time.

 

[arjay55]

Well I am curious to find out how things went, lelly. Do tell.

 

[kingcobra]

Just pull it out and start vaping. If he brings it up which I'm sure he will, tell him all about it. A big part of the problem in closed mouth relationships is that the mouths remain closed which perpetuates the problem. It's always better to communicate even if it appears that things become more strained temporarily. Pent up stress is the worst kind and the truth may not set you free but at least it's a good start

 

[bwood12043]

Yeah, kind of freaked me out too. Propylene glycol is non-toxic and does have some benefits.

Propylene Glycol CAN be used as an ingredient in less toxic anti-freeze, but so is water and a bunch of other stuff that we get everyday in products. I having been vaping with NO analog use for over two years and have seen NO ill effects, and a vast improvement in overall health.

From the EPA website US Environmental Protection Agency


"Alternative Ingredients for Antifreeze
Antifreeze typically contains ethylene glycol as its active ingredient, but some manufacturers market propylene glycol-based antifreeze, which is less toxic to humans and pets. The acute, or short-term, toxicity of propylene glycol, especially in humans, is substantially lower than that of ethylene glycol."

Many other products contain propylene glycol, my brother's asthma inhaler has it.