After 2 years Ecig, Have gone back to real cig

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gridley

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I'm sorry to hear this. I can't tell you HOW to do it, but I agree with trying to get to just plain old air. Honestly, do what it takes- maybe even look into finding a therapist to help you quit? I am still smoking regular cigarettes as of now, and vaping also. Smoking LESS cigarettes, but there's this sick emotional addiction I have to not wanting to give them up, because I know I should. I am rebelling against myself :confused:
But this is not about me... I only said that because I want you to know I don't judge you for this. You are asking for help, so that's what you should be getting: supportive help.

I don't think you should keep trying to vape. vaping is far better than smoking, but not being hooked on inhaling anything is best, especially if you are having lung issues.

Good luck!
 

LucentShadow

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Sorry to hear your troubles. I've had some minor ones of my own, so maybe relating my experiences can help you or someone reading this, in some way.

First, though, my opinion. I'm no medical professional, but AFAIK, asthma attacks are generally triggered by inhaling irritants. Also, someone who regularly inhales irritants is more susceptible to bronchitis. I find nicotine to be an irritant, and I can't even imagine vaping 54mg/ml while chasing a better throat hit. I have no doubt that it would send me into bronchial spasms, along with nicotine OD symptoms. High tolerance to the chemical in your system, or not, I believe that the contact with your lung tissue is inflaming your lungs too much at that level.

I think it's unfortunate that you went there, because now that you have had, and liked that experience, you will naturally compare any vape to that. Perhaps if you try something entirely different for a while, such as snus, you may be able to reset your vaping experience, at least somewhat. I'm not sure what the best course there is.

Anyway, I have had just a bit of a hard time getting into vaping. I started with a 80/20 pg/vg 16mg/ml gas station mini brand, and found that I got swift and severe symptoms from just vaping as I would have smoked about 4 cigarettes in 2 hours or so. Severe sore throat, headache, stomach upset, and my senses and mental state became altered, and not in an enjoyable way. This was quite alarming, as I had picked it up on the way in to work, and I am a shift supervisor. I immediately stopped using it, and since I recognized that most of the symptoms were consistent with dehydration, I started drinking a lot of water. My symptoms subsided fairly quickly, except for the sore throat.

I researched it a bit that night, and found that some are very sensitive to PG, and try to minimize it. I have to say that for the little bit that I used, for such a short period, to get such a severe reaction made me think about just dropping the idea, but I decided to try VG. I learned the reverse taryn spin to empty my cartomizer, and filled it with plain Humco VG, and vaped that fairly heavily the next day, while still smoking a bit less than I would have. I didn't bother me at all, and didn't cause even the slightest bit of any sign that I needed to increase my water intake beyond what was normal for me. That was the encouragement that I needed to continue on.

I went straight into DIY juice when I placed my first order for some decent vaping gear. I also bought one premixed 18mg/ml VG liquid to use immediately, but found it to be harsh on my throat, and it caused me to cough fairly often. I then tried mixing my first DIY juice from some 36mg/ml VG unflavored, with a flavoring from that same vendor, and got the same results. I soon figured out that the flavorings used and sold by that vendor were alcohol-based, and suspected that as the problem, so I ordered some PG-based flavorings.

After much experimenting with those, I've found that 20% PG is quite tolerable to me, and 10% or less does not bother me at all. Also, anything more than about 2 small drops of an alcohol-based flavoring per 10ml is annoying to me. Some flavorings also are irritating to me, such as vanilla and butterscotch.

I now use only alcohol-free flavorings, and prefer those that I can use at 10% by volume or less. The only ill effects that I suffer are a dry, stuffy nose if I exhale too much through my nose, so I limit that. I've recently been experimenting with using cotton wicks in place of the original ones, and I may be sensitive to that, but I haven't been able to conclusively determine that yet.

I've also tried a few DIY flavor extractions using VG, including cinnamon, cocoa, coffee, and tobacco. I find that the tobacco extraction seems to make my vaping slightly more satisfying. I occasionally use a small amount of the cinnamon extraction for a little bit more 'kick' in my vape. The coffee and cocoa are good flavors, but seem especially hard on atomizers, so I don't use them much.

So, it seems that you've found that a low-nic PG liquid seems to be OK for you. Perhaps you can add some extra kick to your vape with PGA, cinnamon, or some other flavor, without irritating your lungs as much. I don't know if that will work, but it's probably worth a try. Personally, I find 18mg/ml to give an acceptable TH most of the time. Maybe after smoking instead of vaping for awhile, switching back to vaping might yield a better result. I hope you can figure something out.
 

meeems

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Hmmm'.....the copd and vaping' thing doesnt make any sense to me'.
I was diagnosed with early COPD, and was told it will never get worse if i quit smoking immediately, which i did, last year on my birthday in april' and began vaping on the same day', i prepared for my birthday...after 3 months, it was completely gone, I would exhale as hard as i could and not a single thing', no noise, no nothing'. and now its like i never had it'.

Don't they say not to vape if you have lung problems? COPD, etc? The same would be worse with smoking. I've read here of people with asthma whose symptoms went away with vaping too. Smoking may help now but you'll see Jesus faster.:blush:
If no mix works and the problem continues it's time to quit everything. I would think that your problem could morph into pneumonia and trust me that is not good.
 

SteveDTF

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Wow. I hate to hear that you've reverted to cigarettes, and I truly hope you get this figured out soon for your health and your loved ones' sake. Not to be too repetitive here, and I know it's sorta been mentioned already, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I experience different levels TH with the same juice in different equipment. I have some atties that pound the back of my throat with insane TH and loads of vapor, eye-watering TH!, and others that are more mellow. For example, using Mar or MLB by E-LiquidEmporium in 18mg in my LR HH357 901 @3.7v gives me a rich, satisfying vape with mellow to medium TH. Using the same exact juice in an EMP 901 @3.7 I can achieve strong to massive TH. Same juice, different atties. I know nic level and PG contributes to the TH, but let's not count out the delivery system which in my opinion accounts for a good portion of TH sensation.
 

MOONBEAM

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I have severe COPD found out in 1999 I started vaping on august 1st 2010 haven't had a analog sense .But I have found that there are some juices that clog me up no matter what. I love cinnamon and it is one that does . Another thing just because you started vaping doesn't mean you won't get some of the crud that goes around and there have been some that people have trouble getting over and some come back strong several times before it's gone . I smoked for 52 yrs .So keep trying anything to help you quit. What ever you do good luck to you.
 

meeems

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Amen MoonBeam!, and congrats on quitting.

Meems
I have severe COPD found out in 1999 I started vaping on august 1st 2010 haven't had a analog sense .But I have found that there are some juices that clog me up no matter what. I love cinnamon and it is one that does . Another thing just because you started vaping doesn't mean you won't get some of the crud that goes around and there have been some that people have trouble getting over and some come back strong several times before it's gone . I smoked for 52 yrs .So keep trying anything to help you quit. What ever you do good luck to you.
 

Razloz

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I then tried a pure unflavored PG juice from totallywicked.. The 52mg nicotine. I think it was called krystal. Now I vaped this without mixing it. It was amazing. I got the best throat hit, though not a lot of vapour, but that throat hit made up for it. I vaped this for about a month, and then I developed a chest infection 4 times in the space of 3 months..

From what you're describe I'm pretty sure you've been poisoning yourself with too much nicotine...My fiancee has moderate asthma and no combination of VG/PG or by themself cause it to act up. Nicotine is a poison and should be treated as such. If you want a stronger throat hit your best bet is to get a variable voltage APV and a strong flavor like cinnamon with a high OHM atty/carto. I recommend the Ego-C Twist for a cheap battery and a Boge 3.0 ohm cartomizer. I hope that by vaping that high of a nic solution you haven't developed an allergy to the nicotine itself, but since you said you smoked some analogs and didn't have a problem I don't think that's the case. Anyhow before you completely give it up do some research, google nicotine poisoning, check the symptoms (a lot of what you described are listed) and try some alternatives for a strong throat hit. Going back to analogs is definitely going to be a lot worse for you. Best of luck!

Sixty milligrams of nicotine (the amount in about 30-40 cigarettes [1]), has the potential to kill an adult who is not a smoker[2] if all of the nicotine were absorbed. This figure is ~120 mg in chronic cigarette smokers, smoking an average of 20 non-light cigarettes delivering ~1.7 mg of nicotine each daily. source
 

Roxxette

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My friend if th is what you crave a nice rebuildable atomizer that use ss mesh will give you that punch you need without need to go in extreme regarding nicotine % , they will give you a nice amount of vapor too.

Another atomizer i will recommend is the GG penelope, it was made to work with fiber wick but by design it can give more th that ss mesh and its more easy to work with; im sure others can recommend liquids that can suit your condition (if there is of course).

To the others really these man came here looking for help, not to be told that cigs will cause him more harm :) im pretty sure he knows these long time ago and not interested in people saying that it was a bad choice for him to go back, snus and other crap is not for everyone, a lot us are attracted to the cig either by the act of exhaling smoke or other "fetish" not related to nicotine crave....
 

AttyPops

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So, assuming that you stay using e-cigs (not necessarily recommended until you+doctor figure out what is going on)

There's another problem here.

I missed it in my 1st post above, too much to read I guess, and not enough info about hardware. There is no way you would have been able to vape 54 mg for long periods on a well performing PV, IMO. TH or no. You're having hardware problems and getting harsh hits due to bad atomization... in addition to whatever else is going on.

Do the following with LOWER nic concentrations... or once you actually get a good hit the 54 mg stuff would knock you on your ....... I don't care how nic tolerant you are. You can adjust it later.

A) Use a new atomizer at the proper ohm level for your device. OR get a new device.
B) Use new e-juice (maybe switch vendors? Unflavored?)
C) If you do get a new device, try VV so you can adjust it.
D) Shoot for about 8 watts (see device reviews on this site too). Watts = Voltage squared divided by atty ohms.... V*V/Ω

Also, TH is not everything. Sheesh! There is SOME TH with all nic-based e-juice. If you're wanting nothing but TH, but have complaints about lung problems, maybe you should quit being so masochistic and reduce the TH a bit? "Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I go like that!" Doctor: "So, don't go like that!" ;)

Anyway, you must be having hardware problems too. Particularly due to your "little vapor" comment.
 
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Hermetic

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Have just been reading through all the posts. Thank you all for taking the time out and replying.

I have never actually heard of snus, and I'm not entirely sure if it is available in the UK, but I will do some googling tonight to see what comes up.

Even though I had been vaping for a period of a couple of years, I always stuck with the same hardware. The hardware I had mainly used was a usb passthrough zenusb_MED.jpg available on the liberro website. It is the liberro zenith. I also used the same zenith atomizers zenat_MED.jpg usually replacing them every 1/2 months or so, until i discovered cartomizers, which I pretty much changed quite regularly. I know there are many new products out, but I always just preferred the usb passthrough! I have about 4, one in the car, the office, the bedroom and another just to take around with me and just plugging it in to any usb port that was ever available. Also i like the fact that it had a battery attached to it so you can vape (for a certain duration) without having access to a usb port. I knew it looked silly, pulling out a long wire with a stick on the end, but I really didn't care lol.

I might have to start reading up a bit more about the new hardware that is out and may think about investing in one. The first e-cig i ever owned was a gamucci, back at the end of 2008, and the battery use to last an hour or so. When the zenith came out on the liberro website, with the usb passthrough, i immediately ordered one, and have been ordering them every so often when they would usually eventually 'die', which would be after a few months.

Regarding the post about nicotine poisoning, i guess i don't know. I remember a handful of times, when I would take a suck on the ecig, and bits of liquid would sometimes come out through the cart and spill on my lips etc, but I never use to think anything of it, just use to get some tissue paper and wipe it off! Actually, coming to think of it, this had happened quite a few times, not so much with cartomizers, but more with the carts that you would pull out and drip. I have to look into nicotine poisoning. But would this cause chest infections etc?

I was never really a throat hit tart or anything, i just progressed to being like that when I was vaping. Cigarette wise, I had ALWAYS smoked silk cut silvers, which are the lightest cigarettes available in the UK, 1mg tar, 0.1mg nicotine, 1mg carbon monoxide! I don't understand why the vape equivalent doesn't do it for me, yet the cigarette does.

What you have all said is right. I need to do some more serious research regarding hardware. I shouldn't have started to smoke cigarettes again. i feel like the addiction has just totally crawled back and taken control over me. Though deep down, I know I have stopped smoking in the past, so I can do it again, but the idea of totally stopping vaping, and smoking makes me extremely anxious. I just do not know If I have the will power. Before the development of Ecigs, I had tried on a number of occasions to quite smoking, and each time I would only last around a month or two, would get severely depressed, and would feel like there was something missing in my life. It has always somewhat of an emotional attachment to smoking. Maybe I do need to seek the help of a professional therapist!
 

donneee

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hmm if your going to get new hardware, i would suggest an ego-c twist. it may not be a passthrough, but it can last me 4 hours or so if i chain vape (650 maH) and all day when i have my other hardware with me. it'll vary with what voltage i have set on it though. it's cheap, small, and is a VV device. so getting some TH is easy as a twist, to the 4.8ish range that is.

it's a 510 adapter as well so (not sure on what type of carts/atty's you use) you might want to get an adapter if you don't want to spend further money on getting new carto's/atty's. if you look at my signature i'm a huge fan of the 357 :p.


i hope you find the th your looking for. 54 mg of nicotine is crazy. i had 36 mg once, and i will never do it again. it was causing me to weeze and hurting my chest and just gave me too much throat hit (which was tolerable until the other pains settled in). since you also (may be) allergic to PG which doesn't mute the TH at all, VG-based juices won't cut it. i suggest adding some Everclear (95% PGA) to your low nic juices. You can research the ratio, but nothing is better then trial and error. Every time i clean my atty's, some vodka is left over and if i don't blow out all the excess it'll make me feel just a tad drunk and give me a harsh throat hit, so it should work as a throat hit stimulant. Stuff is strong though, so don't add too much if you plan on doing that. also is a great multi-purpose cleaner ;)
 

gridley

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I had missed the nicotine numbers you listed in your post... that really is kind of crazy high! Personally, I am trying to get down to vaping 0 nicotine. But I am not going to fool myself and do that too quickly. With the crappy ecigs I started with a couple times (from a grocery store) that were only available in one high dose, I felt kind of sick. Not lung infection type sick though, so I don't know. I don't know what the average vaper uses as far as nicotine strength but I do believe 50+ mg is the highest I have heard. I could see you getting depressed from taking that out of your system quickly and then sucking down twice as many cigs! (I say that without judgement, it's what I do in my quit attempts!!)

Keep us updated... :2cool:
 

meeems

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I"ve never heard of nic that high, in any websites where they give you a choice, i think 36 was the highest, some sites only 24mg, were you DIY with juices?

I'm doing 18mg, and havent really even thought of going down, i guess i should. i was doing 12mg for the longest time, but somehow i just ended up at 18, i think i'll go back down to 12 again..and then...lower...right now i kinda am diggin 18, more flavor. bad, i know', but hey, i'm not going to die on nic alone, so i dont see any reason to go down in a hurry...but 50, i'd defintely get sick. i remember getting sick chain vaping the crapp out of 12mg..i had really bad headaches and nausea, now i'm not chain vaping quite so hard.

I had missed the nicotine numbers you listed in your post... that really is kind of crazy high! Personally, I am trying to get down to vaping 0 nicotine. But I am not going to fool myself and do that too quickly. With the crappy ecigs I started with a couple times (from a grocery store) that were only available in one high dose, I felt kind of sick. Not lung infection type sick though, so I don't know. I don't know what the average vaper uses as far as nicotine strength but I do believe 50+ mg is the highest I have heard. I could see you getting depressed from taking that out of your system quickly and then sucking down twice as many cigs! (I say that without judgement, it's what I do in my quit attempts!!)

Keep us updated... :2cool:
 

AttyPops

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Good idea on checking hardware. Also good to talk to a doctor... particularly when infection is involved. We can't give professional medical advice. We try to give good e-cig advice.

I don't know what juice would cause infections in and of itself. However, if it's giving you lung problems, the problems can allow infections to develop so ... it may be indirectly related. Anyway, it will take a doctor to help with the infections and depression. Depression is serious too!

The bad atomization, insufficient voltage, too high ohms on the atty/carto, dirty atty/carto, etc. will be harsh hits and an irritant. Juice contents could be a factor too. IDK what ohms that atty/carto is. You may be able to solve it with 2.0 ohm or even 1.5 ohm cartos. USE LOWER NIC when you do it though. Be safe and adjust later.

P.S. That PT looks like a 3.x volt device. May be 3.7 or 3.4 or even 3.2 IDK without a link. If 3.7v I'd stay with 2.0 ohms or higher.
 
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Razloz

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I shouldn't have started to smoke cigarettes again. i feel like the addiction has just totally crawled back and taken control over me. Though deep down, I know I have stopped smoking in the past, so I can do it again, but the idea of totally stopping vaping, and smoking makes me extremely anxious. I just do not know If I have the will power. Before the development of Ecigs, I had tried on a number of occasions to quite smoking, and each time I would only last around a month or two, would get severely depressed, and would feel like there was something missing in my life. It has always somewhat of an emotional attachment to smoking. Maybe I do need to seek the help of a professional therapist!

Don't beat yourself up over it, it's a process and the main thing is to stay positive and trust in yourself. Also one of the side effects of nicotine poisoning is depression. So I'm fairly certain you're going through some pretty serious withdraws. If you think about it this way, a pack a day smoker consumes about 34mg of nicotine in an entire day. Now say you're vaping a juice that has 34mg/ml that means for every 1ml there's 34mg of nicotine, and most cartomizers hold about 1ml. So if you go through one full carto you've just consumed a day's worth of nicotine that the average smoker would. That being said, nicotine by itself is about as harmful as caffeine to your body (in moderation!) and like anything the more you intake the more of a tolerance you build up. Like others have said we're not doctors here so we can't really give any solid advice as far as health concerns go. We can only speak about what we've experienced and the research we've done. I myself have been off cigs for about 2 months now and every now and then I still find myself taking a drag or two off one (because my fiancee still smokes). But now it's gotten to the point that they just taste disgusting. For me it's not so much the nicotine or even an addiction to the cigs, it's more about the act of smoking itself. The whole blowing out smoke I guess. It's something I've always loved and will always do because I enjoy it, and vaping fills that desire while tasting good and being better for me at the same time. I think the key to it is figuring out exactly what draws you to it and then going on from there. If it's the nicotine, find what amount works for you then slowly work yourself down depending on how much you take in on a daily basis. If it's the smoke like in my case, try to get down to nicotine free (something I'm personally working on). It all depends on your reasons for doing it. But like I said just have faith in yourself, try not to doubt and keep a positive outlook. It takes time and sometimes seems like it's going too slow but it's all about detoxing your body (nicotine can stay in your system for about a month if I remember right). ECF is a great community and we're all here to help so don't be afraid to ask questions or vent if you need support. :)
 

MickeyRat

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Don't they say not to vape if you have lung problems? COPD, etc? The same would be worse with smoking. I've read here of people with asthma whose symptoms went away with vaping too. Smoking may help now but you'll see Jesus faster.:blush:
If no mix works and the problem continues it's time to quit everything. I would think that your problem could morph into pneumonia and trust me that is not good.

Which they is this that says not to vape if you have lung problems. My wife was recently diagnosed with COPD and her pulmonolgist said one thing when she said she switched to vaping, "Great! That won't hurt you lungs!"

I'm certain that quitting completely would be better than vaping but, I'm certain that this they would never say you're better off smoking.

You have my sympathy. I can understand that you're feeling desperate and you feel the need to do something. However, I think you're doing the wrong thing. Unfortunately, COPD is a progressive disease and there is no known way to halt that progression. Your behavior can only slow it. You might be where you are now if you'd quit cold turkey and didn't vape at all. Do you honestly think that you'd be better off now if you'd never vaped and continued smoking?
 
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