AGA-T+, I'm irritated, what the hell? (VAMO Qs as well)

[Rule62]

The problem with the way I learn and think, I don't understand things until I understand the science behind it, the chemistry and physics as a whole.

The science is simply based on the fact that electricity always follows the path of least resistance. You are using an electrically conductive material (stainless steel mesh), and making it less conductive enough, by oxidizing, so that the electricity follows the wire, instead of the stainless mesh.

 

[albcig]

The problem with the way I learn and think, I don't understand things until I understand the science behind it, the chemistry and physics as a whole.

i recall learning to ride the bike when i was 8. it involved many failed attempts and some bruisers but no physics books and equations.

 

[WattWick]

Skimmed through this thread and felt like chiming in. I am in no way an expert, but I thought it can't hurt to get another point of view.

I don't torch my wicks. I soak them in VG (you can use PG or e-juice) and set them on fire. Let them burn out, and repeat if you're not happy. Should turn a somewhat golden color. Important part is to get a layer where there's contact between wick and wick-hole, and wick and coil. The real oxidation will be done with pulsing and poking. I mainly burn the wick to remove machine oil and finger grease, and build a "light" layer of oxidation. I also cut my wicks so they don't touch bottom of the tank. This should not be 100% necessary, as the point of oxidation is to avoid flow of electricity from coil to wick. If this is accomplished, whatever the wick touches should not matter. Anyway, I still cut my wicks so they don't touch.

For the coiling... the hard part. I see in some of your early pics that you use very many wraps. The more wraps in total, the more wraps can potentially be biting into your wick, or not be in contact with it. You could try using thicker wire and fewer wraps to achieve the same resistance. Thicker wire will also be easier to wrap tight enough without it biting into the wick like thinner wire can.

Start by attaching negative post (I think... the one at the bottom) and wrap fairly tightly, but not to the point where you go "uuuumhhh" in effort. Use a finger nail to keep the wraps as flat as possible, to avoid loosening it when you adjust your them later. The hardest part is getting the connection to the center pole right. Adjusting the nut will adjust your coil tightness. I wrap it very very tight (but not to the point where the wick bends), and attach it counter-clockwise so that tightening the nut will loosen the coil. Since you held it firmly before tightening, the little loosening that takes place will not be an issue. You can prod and poke to distribute this slack (if any, there really shouldn't be) down the coil... and since it's wrapped fairly tightly, you should have no issues with airy gaps between wick and coil. If you get those, start over, or undo center pin and try to remedy.

Then, just give some quick pulses at low voltage and see what happens. If the setup is right, you'll most likely see red wire between center post and wick, and for every pulse, this will work it's way down the coil. You can help by poking parts that glow, or prodding the wick under/over it. Even when your setup looks to be heating from center of the coil, keep pulsing a little and prod almost randomly to see if any hotspots form. At this point you can up the voltage in small increments. They should just appear and disappear fairly quickly. When you feel somewhat confident, either fill tank or drip some drops of e-juice on the wick (depending on how condifent you feel). Leave it for a few moments to allow juice to fully saturate and distribute itself through the wick. (I know it sounds funny, but I find that my setups are better the morning after I coil them). You don't have to wait overnight tho, just give it some moments.

If you can keep button pressed for a few seconds without hotspots forming, you're good to go. If you get no hotspots, but metallic/harsh taste, you probably have gaps between wick and coil. If you can't keep button pressed for as long as you usually draw + a couple seconds, your wicking is not ideal.

This is just how I do it. I've learned it all through these boards and added some personal flavor. So will most likely you. The theory is quite simple, it's just the details and application that are a PITA.

 

[Flyer]

Thanks WattWick. Good explanation.

 

[Dana G Birrell]

Skimmed through this thread and felt like chiming in. I am in no way an expert, but I thought it can't hurt to get another point of view.

I don't torch my wicks. I soak them in VG (you can use PG or e-juice) and set them on fire. Let them burn out, and repeat if you're not happy. Should turn a somewhat golden color. Important part is to get a layer where there's contact between wick and wick-hole, and wick and coil. The real oxidation will be done with pulsing and poking. I mainly burn the wick to remove machine oil and finger grease, and build a "light" layer of oxidation. I also cut my wicks so they don't touch bottom of the tank. This should not be 100% necessary, as the point of oxidation is to avoid flow of electricity from coil to wick. If this is accomplished, whatever the wick touches should not matter. Anyway, I still cut my wicks so they don't touch.

For the coiling... the hard part. I see in some of your early pics that you use very many wraps. The more wraps in total, the more wraps can potentially be biting into your wick, or not be in contact with it. You could try using thicker wire and fewer wraps to achieve the same resistance. Thicker wire will also be easier to wrap tight enough without it biting into the wick like thinner wire can.

Start by attaching negative post (I think... the one at the bottom) and wrap fairly tightly, but not to the point where you go "uuuumhhh" in effort. Use a finger nail to keep the wraps as flat as possible, to avoid loosening it when you adjust your them later. The hardest part is getting the connection to the center pole right. Adjusting the nut will adjust your coil tightness. I wrap it very very tight (but not to the point where the wick bends), and attach it counter-clockwise so that tightening the nut will loosen the coil. Since you held it firmly before tightening, the little loosening that takes place will not be an issue. You can prod and poke to distribute this slack (if any, there really shouldn't be) down the coil... and since it's wrapped fairly tightly, you should have no issues with airy gaps between wick and coil. If you get those, start over, or undo center pin and try to remedy.

Then, just give some quick pulses at low voltage and see what happens. If the setup is right, you'll most likely see red wire between center post and wick, and for every pulse, this will work it's way down the coil. You can help by poking parts that glow, or prodding the wick under/over it. Even when your setup looks to be heating from center of the coil, keep pulsing a little and prod almost randomly to see if any hotspots form. At this point you can up the voltage in small increments. They should just appear and disappear fairly quickly. When you feel somewhat confident, either fill tank or drip some drops of e-juice on the wick (depending on how condifent you feel). Leave it for a few moments to allow juice to fully saturate and distribute itself through the wick. (I know it sounds funny, but I find that my setups are better the morning after I coil them). You don't have to wait overnight tho, just give it some moments.

If you can keep button pressed for a few seconds without hotspots forming, you're good to go. If you get no hotspots, but metallic/harsh taste, you probably have gaps between wick and coil. If you can't keep button pressed for as long as you usually draw + a couple seconds, your wicking is not ideal.

This is just how I do it. I've learned it all through these boards and added some personal flavor. So will most likely you. The theory is quite simple, it's just the details and application that are a PITA.

This post has helped a bit. I wrapped another coil and sat in bed for about an hour toying with it. I'm having three issues getting good heat on a 4/5 coil. The top and the second from bottom coil and slightly overheating and the bottom coil isn't heating much at all. I have to be at work in about 7 hours, when I get home I'll re wrap and try again. When I say slightly, I mean it's EVER so slight, at low voltage, they are the first to pop and it's only about a tenth of a second before the others. This is only visible at lower wattage. At higher voltages, around 3.6 or higher, they are all heating evenly, but the second from the bottom is slightly brighter than the rest. I did this in the dark so I could better see differences between shades. After playing with it for a while, I put the top on and put about 1ml of juice in the tank and wet the wick really well, the vape is low on flavor and slightly metallic. With what you've stated in this post, it means my wick is likely not coiled tight enough somewhere, and I'm fairly sure that's the second coil.

This is more frustrating than performing a proper tourne with a potato, but I eventually learned to do that!

 

[albcig]

Skimmed through this thread and felt like chiming in. I am in no way an expert, but I thought it can't hurt to get another point of view.

I don't torch my wicks. I soak them in VG (you can use PG or e-juice) and set them on fire. Let them burn out, and repeat if you're not happy. Should turn a somewhat golden color. Important part is to get a layer where there's contact between wick and wick-hole, and wick and coil. The real oxidation will be done with pulsing and poking. I mainly burn the wick to remove machine oil and finger grease, and build a "light" layer of oxidation. I also cut my wicks so they don't touch bottom of the tank. This should not be 100% necessary, as the point of oxidation is to avoid flow of electricity from coil to wick. If this is accomplished, whatever the wick touches should not matter. Anyway, I still cut my wicks so they don't touch.

For the coiling... the hard part. I see in some of your early pics that you use very many wraps. The more wraps in total, the more wraps can potentially be biting into your wick, or not be in contact with it. You could try using thicker wire and fewer wraps to achieve the same resistance. Thicker wire will also be easier to wrap tight enough without it biting into the wick like thinner wire can.

Start by attaching negative post (I think... the one at the bottom) and wrap fairly tightly, but not to the point where you go "uuuumhhh" in effort. Use a finger nail to keep the wraps as flat as possible, to avoid loosening it when you adjust your them later. The hardest part is getting the connection to the center pole right. Adjusting the nut will adjust your coil tightness. I wrap it very very tight (but not to the point where the wick bends), and attach it counter-clockwise so that tightening the nut will loosen the coil. Since you held it firmly before tightening, the little loosening that takes place will not be an issue. You can prod and poke to distribute this slack (if any, there really shouldn't be) down the coil... and since it's wrapped fairly tightly, you should have no issues with airy gaps between wick and coil. If you get those, start over, or undo center pin and try to remedy.

Then, just give some quick pulses at low voltage and see what happens. If the setup is right, you'll most likely see red wire between center post and wick, and for every pulse, this will work it's way down the coil. You can help by poking parts that glow, or prodding the wick under/over it. Even when your setup looks to be heating from center of the coil, keep pulsing a little and prod almost randomly to see if any hotspots form. At this point you can up the voltage in small increments. They should just appear and disappear fairly quickly. When you feel somewhat confident, either fill tank or drip some drops of e-juice on the wick (depending on how condifent you feel). Leave it for a few moments to allow juice to fully saturate and distribute itself through the wick. (I know it sounds funny, but I find that my setups are better the morning after I coil them). You don't have to wait overnight tho, just give it some moments.

If you can keep button pressed for a few seconds without hotspots forming, you're good to go. If you get no hotspots, but metallic/harsh taste, you probably have gaps between wick and coil. If you can't keep button pressed for as long as you usually draw + a couple seconds, your wicking is not ideal.

This is just how I do it. I've learned it all through these boards and added some personal flavor. So will most likely you. The theory is quite simple, it's just the details and application that are a PITA.

good explanation there is just a slight problem with the wraps part: more wraps is actually better because there is more contact surface transferring heat hence the need for ribbon wire ppl are using.
more wraps with thin wire means high resistance, if you do less wraps with thicker wire you actually doing the opposite thing. less wraps with thicker wire will in fact lower the resistance

 

[Dana G Birrell]

good explanation there is just a slight problem with the wraps part: more wraps is actually better because there is more contact surface transferring heat hence the need for ribbon wire ppl are using.
more wraps with thin wire means high resistance, if you do less wraps with thicker wire you actually doing the opposite thing. less wraps with thicker wire will in fact lower the resistance

I wrapped my coil with 32g at 2.2 ohm. As far as I understand it, it's sounding like if I use 28g, or even get 30g, I might have an easier time achieving my desirable vape as I'll have much more surface area touching the wick. If this is true, I'll get my prod tools out when I get home this evening and scrap this 32g coil for a 28g.

 

[Rule62]

I wrapped my coil with 32g at 2.2 ohm. As far as I understand it, it's sounding like if I use 28g, or even get 30g, I might have an easier time achieving my desirable vape as I'll have much more surface area touching the wick. If this is true, I'll get my prod tools out when I get home this evening and scrap this 32g coil for a 28g.

I wouldn't suggest 28ga on a Vamo, or any other vv/vw device, for that natter. I use 30ga kanthal on mine. The fact that the 30ga is thicker than the 32ga will result in the set up being a little more stable. It will take more abuse. The problem with 32ga is that the wire is so thin, sometimes the slightest bump, like setting the mod down on a table too hard, can jar the coil out of adjustment. I used to use 32ga in vv/vw mods, but I got tired of handling my devices like I was carrying a raw egg.

 

[WattWick]

good explanation there is just a slight problem with the wraps part: more wraps is actually better because there is more contact surface transferring heat hence the need for ribbon wire ppl are using.
more wraps with thin wire means high resistance, if you do less wraps with thicker wire you actually doing the opposite thing. less wraps with thicker wire will in fact lower the resistance

I have to respectfully disagree. Not based on science, only on personal experience.
I still I'm no expert, but for me it's a lot easier to use fewer wraps with thicker wire. Even tho more contact will make better heat sinking, more contact also means you have more issues to sort out. If you got a spot hot enough to pop wire, there isn't enough heat sink action going to keep it from popping. However, it takes more heat to pop thicker wire. I popped all of the included wire, some 32awg wire, but has yet to pop any 29awg. Keep in mind that thicker wire also has a bigger surface area pr (insert measure of length) than thinner wire. If you look closely on a wet wick, you'll see liquid pooling up around the coil, making it look somewhat like this: /O\. Thicker wire, more liquid, more cooling.

I think I might just be confusing Dana at this point. (I'm definitely confusing myself) It should very well be doable with 32awg, but I find it a lot easier with 29awg. I'm sure 28 or 30 would do. Only reason I use 29 is that it was the only wire I could get a hold of quickly. Good luck with the 28! I'm sure you've filled your fail quota soon. I think I built 20+ coils before getting one that was vapeable but not great. From there, it can only get better.

Edit: Come to think of it, when you get a hotspot, the heatsink goes from sinking heat to generating heat.

 

[albcig]

yes i agree that thicker wire is more stable and more durable and is easier to set up. but it will give you a lower resistance. primary goal when learning to set up a RBA, is not vaping it. the goal is making a coil and a wick without hot spots, and a constant and even glow through the wire. having a good vape comes latter after you have mastered the technique. a 1.8 - 2.2 ohms coil and a VV device should be good for beginning because there is more control over the electricity flow. so high resistance and low voltage would help you set up the coil without having to much trouble.

a 28 gauge wire works wonders on a mech mod ( vv devices have problems with it due to low resistance ) but is very very hard to set up for a beginner. 30 gauge is usually a good compromise. the major problem with RBA devices is the SS mesh. take out the SS mesh and everything works fine.

 

[Rule62]

yes i agree that thicker wire is more stable and more durable and is easier to set up. but it will give you a lower resistance. primary goal when learning to set up a RBA, is not vaping it. the goal is making a coil and a wick without hot spots, and a constant and even glow through the wire. having a good vape comes latter after you have mastered the technique. a 1.8 - 2.2 ohms coil and a VV device should be good for beginning because there is more control over the electricity flow. so high resistance and low voltage would help you set up the coil without having to much trouble.

a 28 gauge wire works wonders on a mech mod ( vv devices have problems with it due to low resistance ) but is very very hard to set up for a beginner. 30 gauge is usually a good compromise. the major problem with RBA devices is the SS mesh. take out the SS mesh and everything works fine.

Very good point at the end. Anybody can wrap a coil around a drill bit, hook the ends up, pull the bit, and get the coil to fire. A monkey could do that. The problem is in the preparation of the wick, and fitting the wick to the coil, so that the coil still fires evenly; which means that proper contact between the wire and the wick must be maintained (too loose, there will be a hot spot. Too tight, there will be a short.), while maintaining an insulation layer on the surface of the mesh.

 

[T1lVl]

I have a smoktech here is my second coil





32 Gauge on 400 MESH

Sorry about picture quality. Only have a camera on my phone

 

[WattWick]

yes i agree that thicker wire is more stable and more durable and is easier to set up. but it will give you a lower resistance. primary goal when learning to set up a RBA, is not vaping it. the goal is making a coil and a wick without hot spots, and a constant and even glow through the wire. having a good vape comes latter after you have mastered the technique. a 1.8 - 2.2 ohms coil and a VV device should be good for beginning because there is more control over the electricity flow. so high resistance and low voltage would help you set up the coil without having to much trouble.

a 28 gauge wire works wonders on a mech mod ( vv devices have problems with it due to low resistance ) but is very very hard to set up for a beginner. 30 gauge is usually a good compromise. the major problem with RBA devices is the SS mesh. take out the SS mesh and everything works fine.

Point taken and agreed. I might have been "lucky" by not getting hold of either 28 or 32, but 29 and 31. 4 wraps of 29 gives me .8 ohm for the mechs, and 4 wraps of 31 gives me ~1.3 ohms for the Vamo. One for the mechs, one for the Vamo. Won't argue whether higher or lower res is easier (not considering wire gauge), as I've always tried to be at 1.5ohm or less with the wires available to me. 30gauge sounds like a great compromise.

I digress. To Dana I'd say don't overthink it. Just fail until you get it. It's not really an intellectual task, more about failing in every way until you run out of ways to fail. Then you'll have your working Aga

 

[dutch onsea]

the post your talking about wich seems to be mounted wrongly you dont use when your using SS. Like replied before, you have to use the bottom screw( on the plate). You have to reduce the space between the top coil and the center post as much as possible. use a washer. otherwise you will have the hotspot your talking about and the burning of your coil

 

[Dana G Birrell]

the post your talking about wich seems to be mounted wrongly you dont use when your using SS. Like replied before, you have to use the bottom screw( on the plate). You have to reduce the space between the top coil and the center post as much as possible. use a washer. otherwise you will have the hotspot your talking about and the burning of your coil

Using washers is about the only thing I haven't done. I am using the bottom screw right next to the mesh hole.

Right now, my only options as far as wire are 28, 32 and 34. I need to wait until next Friday to order some 30 and 29g wire. Would a good alternative for now to try using twisted 32g?

I failed to post this, I poorly wrapped up some 34g wire and wrapped a coil. It is producing a LOT of vapor, however I need to find some methods for wrapping this wire, 34g is slipping from my hemostats, though they are so warped from torching them I think I need to replace them.

Edit: Just drilled twisted 32 and 34 awg wires. Be back in an hour with reports.

 

[jajashi]

A serious question would be, why does the thing leak when you put it on its side?! It's so frustrating.

 

[Rule62]

Using washers is about the only thing I haven't done. I am using the bottom screw right next to the mesh hole.

Right now, my only options as far as wire are 28, 32 and 34. I need to wait until next Friday to order some 30 and 29g wire. Would a good alternative for now to try using twisted 32g?

I failed to post this, I poorly wrapped up some 34g wire and wrapped a coil. It is producing a LOT of vapor, however I need to find some methods for wrapping this wire, 34g is slipping from my hemostats, though they are so warped from torching them I think I need to replace them.

If you are using a Vamo, IMO, you're better off with 32ga than 28ga.

 

[Dana G Birrell]

Using twisted 34g, stronger vape, horrible metallic taste.

From what was stated earlier, metallic taste is generally caused by coils being wrapped too loosely, correct?

 

[WattWick]

Metallic taste without hotspots is usually (to me) caused by wire not touching wick.

Just for the record, did you thoroughly dismantle and clean the Aga prior to using it?

I salute your persistence. I could only manage 3-4 tries per evening, and often let it rest for a few days.

 

[albcig]

Metallic taste without hotspots is usually (to me) caused by wire not touching wick.

Just for the record, did you thoroughly dismantle and clean the Aga prior to using it?

I salute your persistence. I could only manage 3-4 tries per evening, and often let it rest for a few days.

it took me 1 week to make my first usable coil