AGA T+ Need Help Stopping the red spot

[millertime660]

I've owned my AGA-T2 for a week or so and I'm finally able to build a wick and coil and eliminate all hot spots and have a good-running unit in short order.

I started oxidizing the wick in the way Scott on youtube (igetcha69) does, wrapping the coil on the unit, and having a go. Instant hot spots, and never did get it working. Then I tried the Petar K method, followed by the Petar K / Bluegrasslover's hybrid cotton method suggested by EDO. I struggled a bit with that, but eventually got it running well. (Video here.)

The Petar K method doesn't include oxidizing the wick, so I've been trying to use either barely-oxidized wicks or just burning off machine oil with a light flame pass. This surprisingly works, and works well.

The biggest thing that helped me build coils with no hot spots is Mike Zen's advice: every coil is a good coil. It just needs to be coaxed into working well. Pulse the power while adjusting the coil. Do the adjustments to the *hot* coil. Suddenly your hotspots will disappear and the coil will burn evenly.

Here's what works for me on the AGA-T2:

• 500 mesh at 1-5/8" x 3", lightly flame-passed to burn off oils, wrapped into a solid wick. Fold over the edge that will end up "out" on the wick. It should fit semi-loosely in the wick hole. This requires quite a bit of squeezing/wrapping/squeezing to accomplish, but it wicks brilliantly and is easier to wrap the coil on because it's solid. You can lightly oxidize the top half of the wick in a hot flame, but I've been doing without. Insert the wick and verify that it's 1-2mm off the bottom of the tank. It *cannot* contact the bottom of the tank (edit: it's been pointed out to me that people run these fine with the wick touching the bottom, but I have to test this with an un-oxidized wick)
• 32ga Kanthal. It's the easiest to get a 1.8-2ohm coil with 4 wraps, which is a good starting point. Anneal it first by passing it through a flame so that it glows red briefly. This will remove most of the "springiness" and make it easier to wrap the coil without it springing back.
• Counter-clockwise around the negative screw, towards the wick. Tighten the screw. The coil will go counter-clockwise around the wick. Don't *wrap* the coil around the wick; rotate the device and simply *guide* the wire around the wick. There should be very little tension between wick and wire. At the top bring the wire between the wick and center post and wrap it clockwise around the post between the nuts. Tighten well.
• Set your device to its lowest voltage/wattage setting, or use a nearly-expired battery on a mechanical mod. Everything should still be dry at this point.
• Pulse the power. If you have instant hot spots, take a toothpick/pin/needle/syringe and prod lightly at the coils, moving them up/down the wick slightly. Pulse the power, adjust the coil. It may seem hopeless that there's one hotspot at the top leg, but you'll get rid of that. Keep pulsing power and adjusting the coils.
• You'll see at some point that the coil will start to glow towards the middle. Keep pulsing/prodding/pulsing.
• Rather suddenly you'll have an even-glowing coil. Pulse some more to verify, keep an eye out for hotspots, and (if possible on your device) slowly raise voltage a bit (0.1V at a time).
• Check the resistance of the coil if your device is capable. It should be 1.8-2.2ohms, and the reading shouldn't bounce around.
• Any other issues, pulse and prod.
• Only when it's running clean, with zero hot spots and nice even coil, add juice to the tank, watch it wick up to the coil while tilting the device, and fire. You should now have a clean-running coil and wick.

I've done this build a few times now, and it's becoming routine to set up a nicely running wick and coil in short order. I don't use washers or bend the top of the wick; in fact the top leg off the coil to the center post is quite long, but it doesn't produce any hotspots. I'm vaping right now on this setup and it barely even requires the "genny tilt" to wick.

Good luck.

Out of every video/writeup ive looked at I am going to follow this one when my RBA comes in a few days! Thanks, very well written!

Just have one question.... when you say counter clockwise around the wick is that if you are looking down on it? So the wire starts the wrap on the "inside" of the wick?

Thanks again

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

marking thread.

 

[shortyjacobs]

Thanks. You're right from an electrical standpoint -- it shouldn't matter that it touches the bottom of the tank because it's already contacting negative at the wick hole. I've had issues with wicks that touch the bottom, so I'll have to do my next build with a wick that touches bottom to sort out that point. Do you "oxidize" the bottom of the wick? Mine's basically the raw metal with a light flame pass to burn off oil.

I've pretty much given up on oxidation - just seems to cause more problems for me. I wash the mesh in soapy water to remove oil, pat dry on paper towel, roll, and then soak with juice and light it on fire 3x with a normal bic lighter. Worked great last time, and I didn't have to bust out the propane in my kitchen.

 

[StaircaseWit]

Out of every video/writeup ive looked at I am going to follow this one when my RBA comes in a few days! Thanks, very well written!

Just have one question.... when you say counter clockwise around the wick is that if you are looking down on it? So the wire starts the wrap on the "inside" of the wick?

Thanks again

Yes, as you're looking down at the wick you want to wrap counter-clockwise (or anti-clockwise as our UK vapers say).
Finish at the top by putting the coil between the wick and the top post, coming back around the top post clockwise and tighten.

I've pretty much given up on oxidation - just seems to cause more problems for me. I wash the mesh in soapy water to remove oil, pat dry on paper towel, roll, and then soak with juice and light it on fire 3x with a normal bic lighter. Worked great last time, and I didn't have to bust out the propane in my kitchen.

Agreed. I think a lot of the problems we see with Genesis-style atomizers are the result of over-oxidization. I don't do a juice burn at all, though. I suppose the same thing I'm accomplishing with my flame pass is happening with your juice burns. I ordered a multi-meter to attempt to sort this stuff out. I want to be able to measure the continuity of the wick doing various flame passes and juice burns to get it down to the simplest method possible.

 

[Railrust]

I've owned my AGA-T2 for a week or so and I'm finally able to build a wick and coil and eliminate all hot spots and have a good-running unit in short order.

I started oxidizing the wick in the way Scott on youtube (igetcha69) does, wrapping the coil on the unit, and having a go. Instant hot spots, and never did get it working. Then I tried the Petar K method, followed by the Petar K / Bluegrasslover's hybrid cotton method suggested by EDO. I struggled a bit with that, but eventually got it running well. (Video here.)

The Petar K method doesn't include oxidizing the wick, so I've been trying to use either barely-oxidized wicks or just burning off machine oil with a light flame pass. This surprisingly works, and works well.

The biggest thing that helped me build coils with no hot spots is Mike Zen's advice: every coil is a good coil. It just needs to be coaxed into working well. Pulse the power while adjusting the coil. Do the adjustments to the *hot* coil. Suddenly your hotspots will disappear and the coil will burn evenly.

Here's what works for me on the AGA-T2:

• 500 mesh at 1-5/8" x 3", lightly flame-passed to burn off oils, wrapped into a solid wick. Fold over the edge that will end up "out" on the wick. It should fit semi-loosely in the wick hole. This requires quite a bit of squeezing/wrapping/squeezing to accomplish, but it wicks brilliantly and is easier to wrap the coil on because it's solid. You can lightly oxidize the top half of the wick in a hot flame, but I've been doing without. Insert the wick and verify that it's 1-2mm off the bottom of the tank. It *cannot* contact the bottom of the tank (edit: it's been pointed out to me that people run these fine with the wick touching the bottom, but I have to test this with an un-oxidized wick)
• 32ga Kanthal. It's the easiest to get a 1.8-2ohm coil with 4 wraps, which is a good starting point. Anneal it first by passing it through a flame so that it glows red briefly. This will remove most of the "springiness" and make it easier to wrap the coil without it springing back.
• Counter-clockwise around the negative screw, towards the wick. Tighten the screw. The coil will go counter-clockwise around the wick. Don't *wrap* the coil around the wick; rotate the device and simply *guide* the wire around the wick. There should be very little tension between wick and wire. At the top bring the wire between the wick and center post and wrap it clockwise around the post between the nuts. Tighten well.
• Set your device to its lowest voltage/wattage setting, or use a nearly-expired battery on a mechanical mod. Everything should still be dry at this point.
• Pulse the power. If you have instant hot spots, take a toothpick/pin/needle/syringe and prod lightly at the coils, moving them up/down the wick slightly. Pulse the power, adjust the coil. It may seem hopeless that there's one hotspot at the top leg, but you'll get rid of that. Keep pulsing power and adjusting the coils.
• You'll see at some point that the coil will start to glow towards the middle. Keep pulsing/prodding/pulsing.
• Rather suddenly you'll have an even-glowing coil. Pulse some more to verify, keep an eye out for hotspots, and (if possible on your device) slowly raise voltage a bit (0.1V at a time).
• Check the resistance of the coil if your device is capable. It should be 1.8-2.2ohms, and the reading shouldn't bounce around.
• Any other issues, pulse and prod.
• Only when it's running clean, with zero hot spots and nice even coil, add juice to the tank, watch it wick up to the coil while tilting the device, and fire. You should now have a clean-running coil and wick.

I've done this build a few times now, and it's becoming routine to set up a nicely running wick and coil in short order. I don't use washers or bend the top of the wick; in fact the top leg off the coil to the center post is quite long, but it doesn't produce any hotspots. I'm vaping right now on this setup and it barely even requires the "genny tilt" to wick.

Good luck.

Wow great for newbies...thanks a ton...I do the same thing now and it works great. I have a Did Clone Mini coming and going to try that one. I hear it is good as well. I want to buy an AC9 but it is really hard to get. I get an email saying it is in stock and then go to the site and its sold out. Love the tank design on that one. I see the ZEU is available. Is it better than the AC9 anyone know?

 

[Railrust]

Yes, as you're looking down at the wick you want to wrap counter-clockwise (or anti-clockwise as our UK vapers say).
Finish at the top by putting the coil between the wick and the top post, coming back around the top post clockwise and tighten.




Agreed. I think a lot of the problems we see with Genesis-style atomizers are the result of over-oxidization. I don't do a juice burn at all, though. I suppose the same thing I'm accomplishing with my flame pass is happening with your juice burns. I ordered a multi-meter to attempt to sort this stuff out. I want to be able to measure the continuity of the wick doing various flame passes and juice burns to get it down to the simplest method possible.

I will be looking for that wisdom!!! Thanks again!!

 

[shortyjacobs]

Agreed. I think a lot of the problems we see with Genesis-style atomizers are the result of over-oxidization. I don't do a juice burn at all, though. I suppose the same thing I'm accomplishing with my flame pass is happening with your juice burns. I ordered a multi-meter to attempt to sort this stuff out. I want to be able to measure the continuity of the wick doing various flame passes and juice burns to get it down to the simplest method possible.

Good luck. I measure with mine all the time. Typically it's "insulating" after any decent amount of heat or burn happens on it. The problem is finding out how "tough" that insulating layer is. I'll either torch or juice burn a wick to within an inch of it's life, it reads infinite ohms wherever I test it with a multimeter, but as soon as I wrap a wick, (or just move the multimeter probe slightly on the surface of the mesh), it busts through the insulating layer and I'm back to conductive.

I'm starting to think that the real key to a good coil and building up that insulating layer is all the dry burning and poking I do before a coil glows evenly with no hotspots/legs....One of these days I'm going to see if I can make a raw SS wick. No oxidation, no juice burning, just wash it in soap and water, dry, wrap, poke, and go.

 

[StaircaseWit]

Good luck. I measure with mine all the time. Typically it's "insulating" after any decent amount of heat or burn happens on it. The problem is finding out how "tough" that insulating layer is. I'll either torch or juice burn a wick to within an inch of it's life, it reads infinite ohms wherever I test it with a multimeter, but as soon as I wrap a wick, (or just move the multimeter probe slightly on the surface of the mesh), it busts through the insulating layer and I'm back to conductive.

I'm starting to think that the real key to a good coil and building up that insulating layer is all the dry burning and poking I do before a coil glows evenly with no hotspots/legs....One of these days I'm going to see if I can make a raw SS wick. No oxidation, no juice burning, just wash it in soap and water, dry, wrap, poke, and go.

I had a feeling that was the case, because of the fact that a barely flame-passed wick works fine, and Petar K gets his to work without any oxidizing, although he does a bic lighter burn.

Since people are running these with the wick touching the bottom of the tank, and at the wick hole, I think you're right: what matters is getting the coil to "oxidize" itself to the wick. If it's insulated from the wick along the length of its wraps, it shouldn't matter electrically if the bare wick touches negative. This is what's accomplished when we pulse the power and prod the coil. It builds an insulating layer between itself and the wick.

Bare stainless has to have been tried when this method was first developed, right? But all of this has me very curious. I'll be attempting bare stainless (washed as you said) on my next build. I want to sort this thing out and get to the simplest method that isn't intimidating to set up for a new user.

 

[millertime660]

I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread! Unless a new one is created

 

[Ansah]

Mine arrived yesterday (T+ from Discount Vapors), and today I got it working after a bunch of hassle, sort of how you describe, StaircaseWit.

Yup, I had the single hotspot at the top leg, and nothing else going on the first several dry burns. Frustrating. Yet the coil itself did OK after sliding the wick out. So I press and twisted the 500 mesh more and oxidized it again pretty thoroughly, then slid it back into the unit and fiddled, fiddled and fiddled some more, finally getting a good, even glow.

Couple of thoughts:

1) I did not wrap the coil by spinning the device, but just wrapped it around the wick. Next time I will try this suggestion of spinning. Might have saved some grief. Or I may try the drill bit method, if I can find a 3/32 (or whatever it is) bit that's supposed to work best.

2) The draw, as expected, is tighter with the fill hole screw left on, but it's not too bad. For now, I'm leaving it out to get the airier draw, but may be able live with it on when moving about in the world, since it seems relatively leak proof for an RBA. Just for kicks, I held it upside-down, shaking and swaying it for 1 minute and got no discernible juice drip. Or course, this is not the same as carrying around in a pocket or backpack for a few hours...

This is my 2nd RBA, and my first impression is that this is a higher quality unit than the DID clone, but I don't have an exact answer to the hot spot problem except to fiddle with it until it works. It can and does work. I just wish I knew exactly how to get from pt. A to pt. B except by accident and luck.

 

[Rule62]

Te best piece of advice I ever got came from a Zen video. "Never give up on a coil". Keep nudging the coils around, as you pulse the power button, and eventually, it will work. Every time you pulse the power button, you are adding to the oxidation layer under the wire. That's how the people that are using raw, unoxidized wicks, are getting them to work. By pulsing, the wire itself is doing the oxidizing, instead of doing it with a torch.

 

[bilboda]

Try wrapping the coil around the drill bit, qtip or whatever in the wick hole, no mesh. It's easier to space it out against the hard surface. Pull out the qtip, et al, leaving you with the bare coil. Give it a quick glow or 2 or 3. Then drop your wick in. If the wick is too fat , roll it tighter till it's skinny enough. Add juice and pulse burn. If the top glows, pull it closer to the center post, nothing says it has to be straight as an arrow, If you have 500 mesh, you can roll it tight as a toothpick, maybe 400 will work that way too. I'm sure I've done it but it was probably thicker overall then the 500. There's science behind it but it ain't rocket science, more like trial and error til you get accustomed to it. I do the rba's cause I can have enogh to roll wicks for a decade without spending more than several boxes of carto's would cost. And with the chinese rba's I don't have to spend a fortune.
Now I can save up for a svoemesto or something, or not. The AFPV hybrid in the coops certainly has caught my eye.

 

[StaircaseWit]

Mine arrived yesterday (T+ from Discount Vapors), and today I got it working after a bunch of hassle, sort of how you describe, StaircaseWit.

Yup, I had the single hotspot at the top leg, and nothing else going on the first several dry burns. Frustrating. Yet the coil itself did OK after sliding the wick out. So I press and twisted the 500 mesh more and oxidized it again pretty thoroughly, then slid it back into the unit and fiddled, fiddled and fiddled some more, finally getting a good, even glow.

[...]I don't have an exact answer to the hot spot problem except to fiddle with it until it works. It can and does work. I just wish I knew exactly how to get from pt. A to pt. B except by accident and luck.

The answer is simple: start at low voltage/wattage, then pulse and prod. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more specific answer, because we're rolling these things by hand and everyone's wick and coil is going to be different. I did the drill bit method quite a few times. It *does* work, but it requires deft hands in dealing with the coil, and it requires you to size the wick to the coil. Sizing the wick is fine, but it's not exact science and the wick often ends up with slight variations in thickness, leading to loose coils. I'm no longer using that method since winding the coil directly on the wick (spinning the device instead of wrapping the coil helps keep the tension constant and even without being too tight) allows for width variations. It's important that the coil touch the wick or you'll have hotspots.

Try wrapping the coil around the drill bit, qtip or whatever in the wick hole, no mesh. It's easier to space it out against the hard surface. Pull out the qtip, et al, leaving you with the bare coil. Give it a quick glow or 2 or 3. Then drop your wick in. If the wick is too fat , roll it tighter till it's skinny enough. Add juice and pulse burn. If the top glows, pull it closer to the center post, nothing says it has to be straight as an arrow, If you have 500 mesh, you can roll it tight as a toothpick, maybe 400 will work that way too. I'm sure I've done it but it was probably thicker overall then the 500. There's science behind it but it ain't rocket science, more like trial and error til you get accustomed to it.

That's the Petar K. or "drill bit" method. It works if you're very careful how you roll your wick, and has served a lot of people well. I agree with the "quick glow", but adding juice before the coil is known to be running well (heating all coils evenly from the middle out) can hide hotspots that will be difficult to diagnose with a wet wick.

 

[millertime660]

thanks for all the help in these forums! I made my first coil today and it is working great. Made it a little low but ill just pull it apart after this tank and do one more coil!

 

[EDO]

Easiest solution to the AGA-T top lead hot spot: Take your AGA to Ace Hardware, or any small hardware store that has a lot of "drawer hardware" (Lowes and Home Depot don't). Find the smallest stainless steel, metric flat washers that will fit on the positive post. Put 2 of these washers between the 1st and 2nd nut. Connect the top lead in between the 2 washers. The washers will lessen the free distance the top lead has to travel, between the wick and the center post connection point.

This is the best advice for AGA-T users.

 

[Emmortal]

You can also try the scubabatdan method of rolling a layer of cigarette paper around the end of the wick where the coil will go and then wrap your coil around it. When you fire the coil it will burn the paper creating a perfect layer of oxidation between the coil and wick.

Igetcha had a video up in one of his reviews, but should easily be found on youtube if you need visualization.

 

[dam718]

You can also try the scubabatdan method of rolling a layer of cigarette paper around the end of the wick where the coil will go and then wrap your coil around it. When you fire the coil it will burn the paper creating a perfect layer of oxidation between the coil and wick.

Igetcha had a video up in one of his reviews, but should easily be found on youtube if you need visualization.

I believe what this is doing, more than a fix, is a band aid... It is creating an insulator between the wick and the coil, which prevents the coil from shorting against the wick. If the wick is properly oxidized to begin with, your coil shouldn't short against it. The reason the top leg going to the center post is a constant plague is because the coil is grounding out on the wick as soon as it comes in contact with it. The real fix is to continue the oxidizing process, burn some more juice on it, get a nice layer of "juice goo" built up on the wick, and not just where the coil will be, but also where the wick passes through the top cap.

Once the wick is properly oxidized, it will no longer short the coil, and curing the hot spots becomes a lot easier. Neither of the positive or negative legs will glow, only the coiled areas. I've seen some folks roll wicks without doing any pre or post oxidizing, and I would have to say that very much seems more the exception than the rule. A wick that is shorted to ground will result in a coil that is shorted to the wick...

Probably sounds overly simplified, and the concept itself is rather easy... The real trick is getting that wick properly ozidized. It's an art form, and not really particularly difficult, but it definitely takes patience and attention to detail...

 

[jasta]

so much information for Aga User will watch this .. .

 

[millertime660]

hey guys quick question! How big are you cutting your ss mesh? I have #400 and am cutting it at 1 3/4" x 1 3/4 inch and am having a real hard time rolling it tight enough to fit loosely in the AGA T+ hole. Any helpful tips / vids would be great !

 

[StaircaseWit]

hey guys quick question! How big are you cutting your ss mesh? I have #400 and am cutting it at 1 3/4" x 1 3/4 inch and am having a real hard time rolling it tight enough to fit loosely in the AGA T+ hole. Any helpful tips / vids would be great !

I don't have any 400 but that sounds like not a lot of mesh. I cut my 500 mesh at 1-1/2" x 3". It takes quite a bit of rolling to get it to fit loosely in the wick hole, but it makes a nice solid wick.

Keep rolling!