Aging/steeping NET essences

[pantoporos aporos]

Hi all,

I just filtered my first tobacco extraction (a Nub Connecticut cigar I had lying around), and I'm not terribly impressed by it. The flavor is quite strong, but it's not at all the tobacco flavor I was going for (it's almost as if I overcooked the tobacco, but maybe I'm imagining it). I'm hoping that if I let it sit for a week or ten it will improve, so here's my question:

How do you all age your tobacco extractions? I ask because when "steeping" purchased liquids, I usually leave the bottles uncovered for a day or two. Would this be beneficial for the tobacco extract? I'm a bit hesitant to do this because the extract has a strong, offensive (to me) smell, but if letting it breathe will help I'll gladly do it.

For what it's worth, I was planning to follow Kurt's method outlined here, but ended up doing this:

1 - Heated VG to 150* F, poured over chopped cigar.
2 - Realized that Kurt had simmered his VG, so poured the whole mess back into the pot and heated it up to 190* (when it began smoking / steaming)
3 - Poured it back into a mason jar, and left on the yogurt maker for about a day (yogurt maker is basically a 110* F hot plate).
4 - Filtered with coffee filter on Aeropress
5 - Filtered with 2.5 micron filter on Aeropress
6 - diluted in plain VG and vaped it.

At a 30% concentration, the result was strong, rough and a bit offensive to me, and I was afraid that I burned some of the VG (I had the burner on high for step 2, out of sheer stupidity) and ended up with some acrolein, but there was no irritation upon vaping, and my wife thinks this NET is freakin' delicious. Go figure.

Tomorrow my order from leafonly should arrive, so hopefully I can cook up a better NET in the next week!

I hope to make the following single varietal extracts next week:
1 - Organic Burley
2 - Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Long Filler
3 - Dark Fire Cured Wrapper Leaves (hoping for a smokey flavor out of this one!)

Not sure if I'll follow Kurt's method again, or if I'll go for the slow cooker method.

 

[Hafaza]

My first extraction from 2/27/15 of Natural American Spirit Organic. Slow cooker method with 3 alternating 12 hour on then off cycles. Filtered and bottled. 5 weeks out it has mellowed out quite a bit, but has gained more complexity I think. All in all far better then day 1. Extract has been tightly capped the whole time. One of the pros will chime in with better advice soon I am sure.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

I feel that the slow cooker method is good and I've had good results using it. But to be honest if you want the best then only time can give it to you; by time I do mean months. Now most don't have months to wait but I feel it is much better. But I came across a post by Str8vision in-which he outlined a process of a dual extraction one heated in a slow cooker and the other in PGA which I believe was done at room temperature; each takes about three days, he then mixes the two together and allows the PGA to evaporate. Then the mixture is aged with periodic testing to determine when it's ready. The reason for the dual is that he feels that the heat and PGA pull out different tobacco notes thus when mixed the flavor is deeper as it contains more of the tobacco flavor. I haven't tried this yet but will be soon.

 

[Str8vision]

Hi all,

I just filtered my first tobacco extraction (a Nub Connecticut cigar I had lying around), and I'm not terribly impressed by it. The flavor is quite strong, but it's not at all the tobacco flavor I was going for (it's almost as if I overcooked the tobacco, but maybe I'm imagining it). I'm hoping that if I let it sit for a week or ten it will improve, so here's my question:

How do you all age your tobacco extractions? I ask because when "steeping" purchased liquids, I usually leave the bottles uncovered for a day or two. Would this be beneficial for the tobacco extract? I'm a bit hesitant to do this because the extract has a strong, offensive (to me) smell, but if letting it breathe will help I'll gladly do it.

For what it's worth, I was planning to follow Kurt's method outlined here, but ended up doing this:

1 - Heated VG to 150* F, poured over chopped cigar.
2 - Realized that Kurt had simmered his VG, so poured the whole mess back into the pot and heated it up to 190* (when it began smoking / steaming)
3 - Poured it back into a mason jar, and left on the yogurt maker for about a day (yogurt maker is basically a 110* F hot plate).
4 - Filtered with coffee filter on Aeropress
5 - Filtered with 2.5 micron filter on Aeropress
6 - diluted in plain VG and vaped it.

At a 30% concentration, the result was strong, rough and a bit offensive to me, and I was afraid that I burned some of the VG (I had the burner on high for step 2, out of sheer stupidity) and ended up with some acrolein, but there was no irritation upon vaping, and my wife thinks this NET is freakin' delicious. Go figure.

VG has a boiling point >550F, so at 190F neither it nor the cigar tobacco should have scorched. I would let the extract breath for a couple of days, uncovered, and then age it for a few months sealed in an air tight container. Tobacco extracts (especially cigar), get better with age, some of my favorites require - several - months before reaching their flavor potential.

 

[Hafaza]

...Tobacco extracts (especially cigar), get better with age, some of my favorites require - several - months before reaching their flavor potential.

I am about to leave for the middle east for about 3 months. For a no heat extraction could I just dump my remaining tobacco stash in a jar, cover it with PG and then just let it sit undisturbed in a dark closet until I return? Like I mentioned, 3 months minimum, up to 4 months max.

 

[pantoporos aporos]

Thanks, all. This certainly helps. I'll let this NET breathe and age for a while before trying it again.

VG has a boiling point >550F, so at 190F neither it nor the cigar tobacco should have scorched. I would let the extract breath for a couple of days, uncovered, and then age it for a few months sealed in an air tight container. Tobacco extracts (especially cigar), get better with age, some of my favorites require - several - months before reaching their flavor potential.

 

[pantoporos aporos]

I have to say that 1 more day of aging has made a huge difference on this NET. There's a ml or two left in a tank from yesterday's test, and I just tried it for the heck of it. Much, much smoother. This bodes well!

 

[Str8vision]

I am about to leave for the middle east for about 3 months. For a no heat extraction could I just dump my remaining tobacco stash in a jar, cover it with PG and then just let it sit undisturbed in a dark closet until I return? Like I mentioned, 3 months minimum, up to 4 months max.

Absolutely, Should be quite tasty when you get back.

 

[Hafaza]

Absolutely, Should be quite tasty when you get back.

The Prophet has spoken, and so it shall be. You are an amazing resource Str8vision, thank you for all of it...

/salute

EDIT: The 4 month cold maceration is in the back corner of the lowest shelf. Will report back when I try it.

 

[Str8vision]

You might add just a bit more PG to allow for absorption and ensue the tobacco stays submersed for the duration. Will be curious to hear how it turns out, should be robust and flavorful.

 

[pantoporos aporos]

So my order from leafonly has arrived, and I've finally gotten around to preparing the extractions (just poured the heated VG on top of the tobacco).

First notes:
1 - The Burley and the Dark Fire Cured are pungent! The Aged Nicaraguan Seco filler smells delicious, much more of what I'd expect a cigar tobacco to smell like.
2 - The Dark Fire Cured leaves are huge. Whereas it took 4-5 leaves of the filler or the burley to get to 15 grams of tobacco, one single leaf of the wrapper yielded over 35 grams of tobacco (once the stem was removed).
3 - 1 quart of VG goes away very quickly when you are doing 4 extractions (total volume of tobacco +VG is roughly 200 ml each for the burley and the filler, and 400 ml for the wrapper).

 

[Hafaza]

...1 - The Burley and the Dark Fire Cured are pungent! The Aged Nicaraguan Seco filler smells delicious, much more of what I'd expect a cigar tobacco to smell like. ...

Only been extracting one type of tobacco, but when fresh it has a fairly strong musty smell to it. This dissipates pretty rapidly in the first few days to almost disappear completely within a few weeks.

 

[usr/]

So my order from leafonly has arrived, and I've finally gotten around to preparing the extractions (just poured the heated VG on top of the tobacco).

First notes:
1 - The Burley and the Dark Fire Cured are pungent! The Aged Nicaraguan Seco filler smells delicious, much more of what I'd expect a cigar tobacco to smell like.
2 - The Dark Fire Cured leaves are huge. Whereas it took 4-5 leaves of the filler or the burley to get to 15 grams of tobacco, one single leaf of the wrapper yielded over 35 grams of tobacco (once the stem was removed).
3 - 1 quart of VG goes away very quickly when you are doing 4 extractions (total volume of tobacco +VG is roughly 200 ml each for the burley and the filler, and 400 ml for the wrapper).

Hey P A, glad to see you got your leaf in. Just curious, never done whole leaf. Was wondering if you cut the leaf in ribbon/shred or are you just extracting whole leaf. I have been planning on some Organic Whole Leaf extractions. I've done a couple of heavy Burley Blends that I really like and have a Dark Fired extracting, but their all bulk and tinned pipe tobacco's. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[marc42]

I break my whole leaves up and give them a couple of sections in a food blender to chop them finely. more surface area that way.
some of the drier leaves result in very fine particles.

 

[pantoporos aporos]

Hey P A, glad to see you got your leaf in. Just curious, never done whole leaf. Was wondering if you cut the leaf in ribbon/shred or are you just extracting whole leaf. I have been planning on some Organic Whole Leaf extractions. I've done a couple of heavy Burley Blends that I really like and have a Dark Fired extracting, but their all bulk and tinned pipe tobacco's. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

I cut them into ribbons, by rolling the leaves together (length wise) and slicing 1/2 inch chunks out. When I rolled the leaves well enough, I ended up with something that looks a lot like flake tobacco. I hesitate to cut or grind too finely so as not to clog up the filter (or end up with particulates in the juice).