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Alert: Tests show bootleg marijuana vapes tainted with hydrogen cyanide

Discussion in 'General Cannabis Discussion' started by bombastinator, Sep 27, 2019.

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  1. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    Excellent article!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
  4. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    Thanks Baditude. Bombastinator had started a thread earlier this morning with a link to the NBC article. I merged that thread into this one since they're covering the same topic. If anyone is wondering, I chose to merge into this one because this thread title grabs more attention, IMO.

    Thank you both for posting. These are excellent articles. :thumb:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
  6. smacuser

    smacuser Vapid Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 22, 2012
    Vape Augustine, FL
    Why does the term "False Flag" keep popping up in my head?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Love Love x 2
  7. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    Yeah...I feel more confused than ever in some ways. But at least they seem to be honing in on the issue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
  9. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    But now there needs to be caution. Was hydrogen cynide found in something somebody actually used AND it caused the lung illness? As we know there can be trace amounts of things that aren't sufficient to cause illness. Obviously it shouldn't be there but the important thing is to be sure about what mixes are causing illness.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    It doesn’t take much cyanide to hurt someone. We didn’t have people foaming at the mouth and dying instantly.

    Hydrogen cyanide - Wikipedia lists NIOSH dosages as 4.7 ppm recommended, 10 ppm maximum safe, and 50ppm as “immediate danger”. Deaths in 1 hour apparently have occurred with amounts as low as 36 ppm though.
     
  11. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    I don't disagree with anything you write BUT the focus seems to be on what is causing the acute condition that's being observed, may be not the h-c but then that stuff is another reason to NOT use black market pot liquid.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Really? I do. I get corrected frequently. @Mordacai for example seems particularly apt at it.

    I actually liked your point. The NBC article did not list what kind of ppm they were finding. I would like to know what it was.
     
  13. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
  14. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    Everybody already knows this of course but the people who hate vaping and have hated it all along won't acknowledge this finding. For 10 years their slogan has been "we don't know". That will never change. Another thing they hate is the bad press marijuana is getting. They love marijuana because it pays huge taxes. They hate vaping because it's doesn't. But the huge taxes are why there is a marijuana black market. The vaping ban encourages a vaping black market. Tobacco is an $800 to $1 trillion that mostly benefits governments. How is that going to die peacefully?
     
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  15. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    The marijuana black market exists because it is federally illegal and illegal in 40 states. It's not because of huge taxes, though it will always exist even post-full legalization partially for that reason. But it is booming because of the legality patchwork, not taxes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  16. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    I don’t know if it will never change. It is possible TO know. It can be made possible to find out. Research must be done. Public unbiased unmanipulated fully disclosed real research. There is always a die roll with that of course. It might possibly turn out they are right. Current evidence says they aren’t likely to be.

    The ecig community (used this time to describe the community that was in place before The cannabis variants showed up) attempted to do such research iirc twice. What happened is the money was gathered, facilities were found, researchers were hired, and it was broken up. There is a thing about doing research though. It is very expensive and most of the money is spent up front. Facilities and equipment need to be found and rented, materials acquired, etc. this was done while the opposition waited, and after everything was in place the scientists were lured away with fat job offers elsewhere and all the money and equipment was left useless.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations,

    Quite obviously this was also echoed elsewhere, including this variant:

    [ https:// www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/black-market-cannabis-vapes-china-20321313 ]
    DS: Black market cannabis vapes from China found to contain cyanide (2019-Sep-28)

    Out of 15 pens bought from unlicensed dealers in a science experiment, 13 contained Vitamin E — which causes lung damage when inhaled.

    The same number contained a fungicide called Myclobutanil which can turn into hydrogen cyanide when heated.


    Myclobutanil is banned in Canada, Colorado, Washington, and Oregon for the production of medical and recreational marijuana.

    Now, relatively to being "banned", here are additional details specific to my country:

    [ https:// www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/drugs-health-products/cannabis-testing-pesticide-list-limits.html ]
    Mandatory cannabis testing for pesticide active ingredients - List and limits

    Pest Control Product: Myclobutanil
    Fresh cannabis & plants: 0.010 ppm
    Dried cannabis: 0.020 ppm
    Cannabis oil: 0.010 ppm

    Lets mention that although in principle this (in)famous "PCP" (HCN/Zyklon-generating fungicide) never really received official approval by Health Canada for use in any context involving inhalation it turns out this crucial public institution still appears to tolerate some "acceptable" residue "limits" which might "pass" undetected unless a laboratory has access to some "cutting edge equipment like a gas chromatograph with a triple-quadrupole mass spectrometer", on top of a budget substancial enough to finance functional testing... Worse, "pesticides approved for cannabis by the PMRA don't require residue testing because they're considered relatively benign" anyway.

    Considering H.-C.'s list already reached 96+ PCPs (so far!), while i recall it's been as much as 200 in Washington (as per WSDA/WSLCB i502 just a few years ago), if we consider there can be many more products similar to myclobutanil then it should sound reasonable to assume that non-detection PCP soups got explored as well. One major concern being that the individual effects multiply instead of just add up, while staying within "acceptable limits" unless one has access to some laboratory possibly costing around a hundred thousand dollars simply to operate.

    In other words even after it was repetitively proven that myclobutanil WAS present near the Licensed Producer's cannabis cultivation space it remains possible not to trigger H.-C.'s contemplative "detection" limit...

    In other words i must conclude that keywords like "Black Market"/"Illicit", "Cannabis"/"THC" and "Vaping" can prove misleading, if not be intended as plain decoys.

    IMO it's a multi-factorial problem also involving 3rd-party mis-guided bigot prohibitionism. For example a flavours ban may actually cause more dosing errors by reducing feedback in the operator's manual control loop: e.g. it's too late by the time one realizes he has inhaled too deeply. Which to me suggests an avenue of solution: real-time biofeedback data feeding iPhone/tablet Karaoke-like "social" applications designed to accelerate the acquisition of vape operator skills, based of a collective library of shared/validated session signatures, etc.

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    The weird colors! It hurts! And make things near unreadable. You may have a good point here. I can’t access it though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. DJ Colonel Corn

    DJ Colonel Corn The Vapor Ninja Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Really ?
    Is your monitor okay ?
    I can see all the words plainly and clearly....
    Do you have 'dark mode' set on ? I'm using a white background theme and all the colored words appear quite fine.
    I also REALLY appreciate @Egzoset 's posts. Very informative, well-written, and concise.
    I love the layout, too, including the colors. A very easy read.

    By the way, folks, here's an image delineating the good, the bad, and the ugly:

    [​IMG]
    Click the image for a larger view.
    Got the image from here : Bootleg Weed Vapes Found To Contain Cyanide

    This whole thing is just extremely unfortunate, prayers go out to the families and friends of the departed and ill.

    Basically almost all the media outlets are churning out SPAM, and, :spammers: :spam: :danger:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Bingo!! But yet we pick and choose what media we feel is beneficial based on the content. Everyone screamed at NBC when they were pointing the finger at responsible nicotine vapers - but embrace NBC when they when they are reporting on illicit THC carts. Bad media is bad media….regardless.

    Why hasn’t NBC posted the lab results from their THC cart tests? Why is the above graphic stating the legal THC samples were void of pesticides when they were not void of pesticides but displayed levels under state regulations. If they still show traces of pesticides, are they still capable of creating hydrogen cyanide, the new trendy word amongst this outbreak. Was all product tested for hydrogen cyanide or just pesticides with assumptions made and then exploited because it makes great click bait.

    What is hydrogen cyanide? All who have smoke cigarettes have consumed hydrogen cyanide. We know when Myclobutanil is combusted hydrogen cyanide begins to form. Does it scale with heat? Is it present when vaping vs smoking?

    Health Canada stated on a crop recall due to finding levels of Myclobutanil that despite the use of Myclobutanil, cyanide still would have been 500 times below the acceptable levels established by the US National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. So despite the possibilities of hydrogen cyanide, when does it become a health risk? Or is hydrogen cyanide the new trendy word(s) like formaldehyde was to vaping a few years back?

    I am by no means supporting or trying to debunk the claims against illicit THC carts. But to demonstrate our media is still feeding us a healthy pile of BS!
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
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